@Gubb1e There are too many problems with that logic though.
First, PDA strategies are good practice.
Similar strategies are widely practiced inside & outside of autism, independently of PDA and have been for years.
@Gubb1e Most disorders are not that good at guiding prognoses or support packages.
There is no evidence of differential treatment between suggested autism subtypes.
SEND system is needs based, CYP should NOT need a PDA dx to get appropriate strategies.
@Gubb1e Arguments about rights to a PDA dx due to its strategies, are universal & therefore applicable to many persons, including many non-autistic persons.
@Gubb1e Proposing PDA is clinically needed due to its strategies is a reason why PDA is controversial, as it turns accepted mental disorder's classification upside down.
@Gubb1e It is also starting backwards, so giving it to people for use of its strategies & then trying to show it is different to other mental disorders. @milton_damian I believe this was your comment?
@Gubb1e@milton_damian I do not think PDA is clinically needed. I definitely have valid reasons against people saying PDA is autism. I accept it is not going anywhere, but it needs to be pursued scientifically & at its broadest predicted extent.
@Gubb1e@milton_damian All we have really done so far is basically investigate the opinions of a small group of autism experts, when other's opinions on PDA are likely to be just as valid.
I have severe ethical concerns over how PDA is being pursued.
After much musing, this afternoon. I think a thread on partly why any credible or reputable autism expert should say PDA is NOT autism is probably warranted.
It centers on Newson’s work; it is simply can NOT be used to argue PDA is autism. She does not draw PDA overlapping autism. Saying PDA has a different cause of social communication issues to autism.
First point, Newson said this herself, that PDA is not autism and including not rebranded autism (particularly Aspergers). adc.bmj.com/content/archdi…
It is worth pointing out that while Newson did argue that behavioural based approaches, which would include ABA/ PBS are unsuitable for PDA. It is not the same as saying that she thought ABA/ PBS was unsuitable for autism.
First main point is that Newson considered PDA to NOT be autism and to be clinically distinct from autism, i.e. it is not an autism subtype or an autism subgroup.
It is important, we cannot really start generating valid knowledge on PDA with much of its research having flawed axiology and methodologies due to the erroneous assumption it is an ASD.
I standby the point that we should be de-platforming anyone is saying PDA is an ASD.
That moment when you realise, you need to define what you consider to be in all its glory and not.
First one, so this is what I consider PDA traits criteria to be (on the right hand side).
The wording is mainly based on Newson's clinical descriptions, except where Newson's assumptions are wrong. E.g. panic attacks being attributed to Surface Sociability trait.
I standby this comment, any credible or reputable autism expert should be saying PDA is NOT autism.
There are too many reasons for me to go into at this moment. Two example is how Newson said PDA is not autism, or did not base PDA on Triad of Impairment.
Newson's clinical interpretations do not fit well into accepted clincial practice, as she used her own definitions for 2 diagnostic groupings she placed PDA in.
Newson's definitions for Pervasive Developmental Disorders are broader than what was accepted including non-autistic persons in it, while not including other accepted PDD's of Childhood Disintegrative Disorder & Rett's Syndrome.
@AutismBoat@DrRubySapphire@AnnMemmott One cannot make the assumption from Newson's work PDA is part of the autism spectrum. Newson:
- Knew about triad of impairment in 1982, did not base PDA on it.
- There are important clinical differences that mean PDA is not autism.
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@AutismBoat@DrRubySapphire@AnnMemmott ...
- She removed any cases who presented autism (even atypical) autism features from her data base.
- Explicitly tells us PDA is not autism & should not described as that.
- Never assessed her PDA cases for autism.
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@AutismBoat@DrRubySapphire@AnnMemmott ...
- Newson never systematically investigated features of autism features in her database.
- Included non-autistic persons in her diagnostic groupings, including a broader than what is accepted version of Pervasive Developmental Disorders.
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