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27 Mar, 8 tweets, 2 min read
*spits out coffee* This is exactly what I said would happen, how I said it would happen. 😂
Notice the difference between how she handles Carr & how they have handled others in the past who've stepped on this same landmine. Anyway, Carr will apologize for this thread.
They hate fixes so much! Proposing a fix that is not "totally reform all of society" is what gets you targeted for criticism or abuse.
It looks like I misjudged him, & car will not be apologizing for the original thread. Respect. 💪
*car => Carr. (I'm not gonna retype that tweet a third time!)
So he deleted his double down I linked above. They’re still on him. On of the crew tweeted then deleted, others are subtweeting, & yet another is taking a detailed run at his thread.
I gotta say this really smells coordinated. I’ve heard they’re all in a back channel together.
I’ll tell you this: when the FAccT clique goes ham on the next guy who steps on this land mine, I will get a gas out of contrasting the dragging with the careful, respectful treatment Carr is getting from them.

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More from @jonst0kes

jonstokes.com Profile picture
28 Mar
At some point we'll all have to reckon w/ the following issues /in combination/:

1. Society has problems
2. ML amplifies some of them
3. #2 will get worse, making #1 worse
4. Something must be done
5. The ppl yelling the loudest about 1-4 are an obstacle to #4.
We need an entirely separate, competing conversation about fairness, accountability, & transparency in ML that takes as its premise that fixes for #2 are possible & desirable independently of efforts to fix #1, and then proceeds from there.
Not only are the FAccT clique openly opposed to efforts to look for technical fixes, but they're trying to rule out discussion of technical fixes as out-of-bounds entirely.
Read 6 tweets
jonstokes.com Profile picture
28 Mar
They’re increasingly being driven around the bend by his refusal to perform an elaborate apology, or even admit error. It’s pretty awesome to watch. One of the guys trying to justice him into submission is a AI higher up at Chase bank lol.
As I predicted, the place there really pushing back hard is on his claim that the problems are fixable. This claim is a direct threat to the entire AI ethics project so it can’t stand. They’ll keep at him over it.
Here’s what I’m seeing in his responses, though: he’s smart enough to see that the larger points re: societal bias are obvious, & he has enough intersectional armor that he doesn’t have to pretend they’re saying something novel/deep/complex/technical. Greatness.
Read 16 tweets
jonstokes.com Profile picture
27 Mar
This thread is an interesting artifact, b/c Carr is one of the main figures in "2+2=5" discourse, yet this thread contains exactly & precisely the argument that gets people like @ylecun dragged by the AI ethics brigade.
LeCun even tweeted this thread approvingly, which is no surprise since it backs what was essentially his argument in the big Twitter dustup with @timnitGebru.

Prediction: Carr will have to essentially retract this thread. It won't stand, as-is.
From the perspective of the AI ethics people, this thread contains wrongthink. If LeCun himself had tweeted this identical thread, he'd right now be subject to a massive pile-on led but a handful of big accounts.

So I think Carr will get pressure to do a "clarification" at least
Read 10 tweets
jonstokes.com Profile picture
26 Mar
We're all going to be thinking about this question, which I start to touch on in the post, a LOT more in the years to come.

You can't answer it though w/out 1st having an answer for the what/how of /human/ moral responsibility for human artistic output.

Spoiler: views differ.
If you don't have a working theory of human art — what it is, and of the artist's relationship to the representations they put out into the world — then good luck coming up with something comparable for machines. And there is no grand unified theory of such we can all agree on.
So I think we will not answer this question for machines, because there are too many frameworks for answering it for humans. Rather, we'll just have machine-produced cultural objects alongside human ones, & we just won't agree on how to relate to their shortcomings.
Read 6 tweets
jonstokes.com Profile picture
25 Mar
After a walk, I have rethought my reaction to this paper.
Reading it was what prompted my "maybe I'll give up & become a troll" tweet. But I'm now encouraged by it.
First, the depressing aspect: a whole section of this paper traffics in ancient techbro stereotypes, plus one new one they've invented themselves. These snidely offered stereotypes are basically offered up unsupported, as if we ALL KNOW AMIRITE? And this is an ACM paper!
So I'm like, this sneering collection of techbro tropes was published by the ACM, which means the citadel has fallen. It's all over. Stick a fork in American tech leadership. But then I thought about their "Ethics Unicorn" archetype, & it hit me: they're eating their own.
Read 7 tweets
jonstokes.com Profile picture
24 Mar
So I read this paper, & there's an entire subsection dedicated to a new supposed new (problematic) type of figure — the Ethics Unicorn. But no example of such a person, or even such thinking, is given. I have never encountered this. It seems like folklore.
I mean, maybe I am not in trendy enough tech circles? Maybe some of the engineers at the NYT who have a lot of opinions about what the edit staff should & shouldn't be publishing would fall into this category?
At any rate, the lone citation there is to an explainer on the "full-stack unicorn developer." This Ethics Unicorn character is left to the imagination, I guess.
Read 9 tweets

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