Well, it seems like very few #TTRPG shows have thoughts to share on their pay structure. In fact, seems like there are more questions than anything.
So I'm shifting gears to provide some of my experience. (I have NEVER not paid ppl)
A thread about $$$ for actual plays...
So I'm shifting gears to provide some of my experience. (I have NEVER not paid ppl)
A thread about $$$ for actual plays...
First things first. Decide with your players if monetary compensation is a make or break for them. If it is, make a plan for funding first.
Paying people for their time & talents can't be chalked up to "giving exposure". Just as you shouldn't take sponsorships on exposure.
Paying people for their time & talents can't be chalked up to "giving exposure". Just as you shouldn't take sponsorships on exposure.
If monetary compensation isn't as important to the table, remember there are other kinds of compensation such as free subscriptions to VTTs, TTRPG accessories like dice/trays, and even "gift baskets" once the show is done.
These items can be acquired through #RPG sponsorships.
These items can be acquired through #RPG sponsorships.
Now back to money. WTF do I find it?!
The fact of the matter is, the majority of TTRPG companies are not going to hand you $$$ to play their games. That's just the hard truth.
You need to find other sources and diversify those sources to create sustainability.
The fact of the matter is, the majority of TTRPG companies are not going to hand you $$$ to play their games. That's just the hard truth.
You need to find other sources and diversify those sources to create sustainability.
Some options for funding:
- KoFi
- Patreon
- Company Sponsorships
- Live Stream incentivized tipping
- Crowdfunding (IE. Kickstarter/Indiegogo)
- Ad Placements
- Local/State/National Grants
- PayPal
I have literally used all of these at some point. Let's break this down further.
- KoFi
- Patreon
- Company Sponsorships
- Live Stream incentivized tipping
- Crowdfunding (IE. Kickstarter/Indiegogo)
- Ad Placements
- Local/State/National Grants
- PayPal
I have literally used all of these at some point. Let's break this down further.
Before you can figure out WHERE/HOW to get $$$. You need a plan. Yes, a written business plan.
What do you WANT to pay your cast? What are overhead expenses? Are you paying yourself? Are you doing this for fun or profit?
Start by listing out the goals & then make a strategy.
What do you WANT to pay your cast? What are overhead expenses? Are you paying yourself? Are you doing this for fun or profit?
Start by listing out the goals & then make a strategy.
I'm going to add here that you need to set REALISTIC goals.
We all love CR, but that's not realistic. They are the anomaly. You do not base good business on anomalies.
Instead, go look at channels/shows similar in size to yours. See what they are doing. What can you do better?
We all love CR, but that's not realistic. They are the anomaly. You do not base good business on anomalies.
Instead, go look at channels/shows similar in size to yours. See what they are doing. What can you do better?
"But I'm not a business, Dot!"
Yes, you are. The moment you start accepting money in exchange for services (in this case entertainment) YOU ARE A BUSINESS!
If you're just playing for fun with friends online & you don't care about $$$ then you shouldn't be accepting ANY payment.
Yes, you are. The moment you start accepting money in exchange for services (in this case entertainment) YOU ARE A BUSINESS!
If you're just playing for fun with friends online & you don't care about $$$ then you shouldn't be accepting ANY payment.
Let me repeat that. If you are a table of friends that don't care about getting paid, then DO NOT ACCEPT PAYMENT FROM THE AUDIENCE.
This is literally mixed messaging. You're doing it for fun so the audience should be watching for similar reasons.
This is literally mixed messaging. You're doing it for fun so the audience should be watching for similar reasons.
That is not to say that "for fun" is better or worse than "paying". It simply is just different and that's totally fine!
Just be transparent from the start and know what you're trying to achieve, so that expectations can be set and met.
Just be transparent from the start and know what you're trying to achieve, so that expectations can be set and met.
What's next?
Start by making a budget. You need to know how much EACH campaign is going to cost you. Don't forget art & hosting expenses. Did you remember to pay yourself?!
You can start by estimating paying your cast minimum wage or $10 an hour. You have to start somewhere
Start by making a budget. You need to know how much EACH campaign is going to cost you. Don't forget art & hosting expenses. Did you remember to pay yourself?!
You can start by estimating paying your cast minimum wage or $10 an hour. You have to start somewhere
You can also consider a "profit split" option based on what you earn live. But if you're not earning a lot of money live, your goals need to be focused on growing the audience and incentivized tipping.
Profit splitting only works when you have a solid structure in place.
Profit splitting only works when you have a solid structure in place.
Another option can be a "stipend" instead of paying by the hour. Many theatres & comedy houses use this model.
IE. $75 for a 5-week campaign or $15 a session.
It is where I started. Then I added a profit split in addition to the stipend once I was more established.
IE. $75 for a 5-week campaign or $15 a session.
It is where I started. Then I added a profit split in addition to the stipend once I was more established.
Remember, to set your payment based only on what you CAN afford.
If you can't afford a 10-week campaign, then don't run one. Start at a 5-week campaign and grow from there.
No one can know this but you based on your earnings, budget, & business goals.
If you can't afford a 10-week campaign, then don't run one. Start at a 5-week campaign and grow from there.
No one can know this but you based on your earnings, budget, & business goals.
When I started I set my goal at $500 for a 4-week campaign. That covered my BASIC expenses and allowed me to pay people. Half was from Patreon, half was earned live.
As my business & goals grew so did my budgets. Now I spend roughly $1250 to produce a 5-6 week TTRPG campaign.
As my business & goals grew so did my budgets. Now I spend roughly $1250 to produce a 5-6 week TTRPG campaign.
"But where do I get this money Dot?!"
Another great question.
Start by recognizing that you're not going to get your $$$ from a single place. You have to have multiple income streams. This is just good business practice.
I outlined some of those above but let's deep dive....
Another great question.
Start by recognizing that you're not going to get your $$$ from a single place. You have to have multiple income streams. This is just good business practice.
I outlined some of those above but let's deep dive....
KO-FI
This is a GREAT place to start, especially as an individual. I used Ko-Fi to kick off my business & to fund the majority of my 3 TTRPGs on my channel.
You can set goals like "$300 to pay my cast for a 4-week campaign". This is something that is doable.
This is a GREAT place to start, especially as an individual. I used Ko-Fi to kick off my business & to fund the majority of my 3 TTRPGs on my channel.
You can set goals like "$300 to pay my cast for a 4-week campaign". This is something that is doable.
PATREON
Once I was more established, I moved to Patreon.
There are a lot of pros and cons to Patreon. The biggest con is that Patreon requires a lot of time and energy to maintain.
Patrons want what they are promised. Are you earning enough there to warrant the dedication?
Once I was more established, I moved to Patreon.
There are a lot of pros and cons to Patreon. The biggest con is that Patreon requires a lot of time and energy to maintain.
Patrons want what they are promised. Are you earning enough there to warrant the dedication?
That being said, a pro is that Patreon creates a more stable structure so you know what you're earning each month.
This helps with planning and long-term stability.
This helps with planning and long-term stability.
COMPANY SPONSORSHIPS
Most #TTRPG companies are not going to give you hard $$$.
But they may give you books, PDFs, Dice, or other "in-kind" support that you can use to drive giveaways or compensate your players with.
I love gifting dice & trays at the end of my campaigns.
Most #TTRPG companies are not going to give you hard $$$.
But they may give you books, PDFs, Dice, or other "in-kind" support that you can use to drive giveaways or compensate your players with.
I love gifting dice & trays at the end of my campaigns.
Companies do want to see some kind of return on this exchange tho.
So think about your audience size and how you'll leverage those in-kind donations to boost the company you're working with.
How can you best pitch yourself & your table?
So think about your audience size and how you'll leverage those in-kind donations to boost the company you're working with.
How can you best pitch yourself & your table?
INCENTIVISED TIPPING
This is when you encourage your audience to give live to affect the story or players in some way.
This has been one of the most lucrative ways to earn $$$ live but I have a lot to say on it.
This is when you encourage your audience to give live to affect the story or players in some way.
This has been one of the most lucrative ways to earn $$$ live but I have a lot to say on it.
1. Don't let the audience run away with your story. Just b/c they donate doesn't give them the right to interrupt what you're doing.
2. SPLIT THIS MONEY WITH YOUR CAST
3. consider goals bars that can be filled TOGETHER by your audience instead of an "a la cart" donation menu
2. SPLIT THIS MONEY WITH YOUR CAST
3. consider goals bars that can be filled TOGETHER by your audience instead of an "a la cart" donation menu
4. Set realistic goals based on what you need to earn each session. If it cost you $100 to pay the cast that day, then aim for two $50 donation goals or four $25 donation goals.
Use this to be transparent with the audience about where their money is going & how it's supporting.
Use this to be transparent with the audience about where their money is going & how it's supporting.
CROWDFUNDING
Crowdfunding is no joke. Successful campaigns require a lot of work & dedication.
But this can work as an option to fund an entire show upfront. Know your budget & set the goal above that.
This is probably one of the hardest ways to fund a stream.
Crowdfunding is no joke. Successful campaigns require a lot of work & dedication.
But this can work as an option to fund an entire show upfront. Know your budget & set the goal above that.
This is probably one of the hardest ways to fund a stream.
AD PLACEMENTS
I'm not talking about YouTube ads. I'm talking about you adding a proper Ad to your stream or pre-show.
Most companies won't bite for this unless you have a big audience. If your goal is audience growth, then this might be an option down the road.
I'm not talking about YouTube ads. I'm talking about you adding a proper Ad to your stream or pre-show.
Most companies won't bite for this unless you have a big audience. If your goal is audience growth, then this might be an option down the road.
Remember, that these ad placements don't have to be TTRPG companies. What about a company adjacent or similar but not exact.
For example: I run a VtM podcast. As an ad sponsor, we reached out to a custom fang company since we have a similar audience to them.
For example: I run a VtM podcast. As an ad sponsor, we reached out to a custom fang company since we have a similar audience to them.
GRANTS
Okay, this is a little-known treasure, but there's a lot to consider.
What are Grants? They are local, state, and national funding (through tax dollars) used to further specific kinds of research, art, and experiences.
They are usually given to nonprofits & individuals.
Okay, this is a little-known treasure, but there's a lot to consider.
What are Grants? They are local, state, and national funding (through tax dollars) used to further specific kinds of research, art, and experiences.
They are usually given to nonprofits & individuals.
Grants come with A LOT of work b/c the money is public funds.
That means only SPECIFIC things will be funded & usually, they have to provide a "public benefit".
The money has to be strictly tracked and then reported.
Grants are no joke.
That means only SPECIFIC things will be funded & usually, they have to provide a "public benefit".
The money has to be strictly tracked and then reported.
Grants are no joke.
I funded my entire final season of TTRPGs on my channel through a $10,000 grant from Fulton County Arts Council.
I wrote the grant around the merger of TTRPG & live-streamed storytelling as a way to connect people during the pandemic.
I produced 3 shows with this money.
I wrote the grant around the merger of TTRPG & live-streamed storytelling as a way to connect people during the pandemic.
I produced 3 shows with this money.
If you're interested in grants...
1. I suggest you take an online seminar on writing grants.
2. You can find them through your local arts councils, city funders, and even some on a national level.
1. I suggest you take an online seminar on writing grants.
2. You can find them through your local arts councils, city funders, and even some on a national level.
PAYPAL
There is nothing wrong with using Paypal.me as an option when you start. Much like KoFi, people can simply support you one time to make a goal come to life.
For those of you NOT Twitch Affiliates, this is where you should begin taking donations.
There is nothing wrong with using Paypal.me as an option when you start. Much like KoFi, people can simply support you one time to make a goal come to life.
For those of you NOT Twitch Affiliates, this is where you should begin taking donations.
In addition, PayPal is great if you're seeking private, individual donors.
When I started Stitch of Fate, I went out and found two individuals who wanted to give by do it anonymously. In fact, they funding 70% of our first season.
They gave through PayPal.
When I started Stitch of Fate, I went out and found two individuals who wanted to give by do it anonymously. In fact, they funding 70% of our first season.
They gave through PayPal.
The most important thing to know is that all of this TAKES WORK.
It's not going to happen overnight, and just because you put a TTRPG show out there you're not guaranteed to make money.
But having a plan in place is the MOST important step before you launch anything.
It's not going to happen overnight, and just because you put a TTRPG show out there you're not guaranteed to make money.
But having a plan in place is the MOST important step before you launch anything.
This may mean you'll have to postpone an idea or do more planning.
It may mean you have to consider players in your price range, or make drop your table from 6 to 4 players.
Either way making smart choices for yourself and the show upfront will only benefit you.
It may mean you have to consider players in your price range, or make drop your table from 6 to 4 players.
Either way making smart choices for yourself and the show upfront will only benefit you.
I'm a firm believer that NOT compensating people isn't an option.
Because of this I've built a reputation as a producer of quality streams, fair compensation, and fun times.
I want my players to feel they are appreciated and that I'm not trying to build off their backs.
Because of this I've built a reputation as a producer of quality streams, fair compensation, and fun times.
I want my players to feel they are appreciated and that I'm not trying to build off their backs.
If you are NOT in a place to compensate people, think about whether or not launching your show independently is a good idea.
The better option may be to take your idea to a channel you trust and love and pitch it to them. They may have the structure and resources to produce.
The better option may be to take your idea to a channel you trust and love and pitch it to them. They may have the structure and resources to produce.
If you are new to the TTRPG space are instead an individual looking to join tables and be paid... my suggestion is... be patient and kind.
This is a growing market without any precedence. We're all making it up as we go along and figuring it out.
But here are some other tips:
This is a growing market without any precedence. We're all making it up as we go along and figuring it out.
But here are some other tips:
1. Know your value. You're not going to be paid HUGE wages to start.
2. Know what you bring to the table. Is it an audience? Talent? Influence?
3. Figure out what your lowest rate is and what your ideal rate is. Always ask for your ideal rate. Then you can negotiate.
2. Know what you bring to the table. Is it an audience? Talent? Influence?
3. Figure out what your lowest rate is and what your ideal rate is. Always ask for your ideal rate. Then you can negotiate.
4. Never accept less than your lowest rate. Ever.
5. Are you in this for exposure or money. The producer/DM needs to know this.
6. You're probably never going to make a living doing just TTRPGs alone. Most of us have other hustles or our own Twitch channels that support us.
5. Are you in this for exposure or money. The producer/DM needs to know this.
6. You're probably never going to make a living doing just TTRPGs alone. Most of us have other hustles or our own Twitch channels that support us.
I know that this is a hard conversation. It's hard to turn the mirror and look at your business and best practices but it's something you and the rest of the TTRPG community deserve.
How can we consistently be better and better for each other?!
To start, we can compensate.
How can we consistently be better and better for each other?!
To start, we can compensate.
I guess I should end this with...
Any Questions!?
Any Questions!?
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