Thread by @luminatus1

@whywouldyou_uk found an amazing talk with him & another guy I don't know (will share for the comedy value)
It's beautiful to hear the upper classes talk, sneer & discuss their anxieties,
some legitimate with deeply held racism.
They discuss how apocalyptic voices like Powell prophecies 1/

@whywouldyou_uk Enoch Powell & other anti-immigrants voices prophecies underestimated how many immigrants would take over, I.e London
You have to hear it
Thousands in comments welcome their racism
They talk of birth rates & why women (indigenous ) have less babies 2/

@whywouldyou_uk Murray asking why indigenous having less babies, as a gay man

(How many babies are killed via abortion, a 'human right')

They blame house prices, govns taking immigrants in & not putting money in cheaper housing & encouraging indigenous couples to have more kids 3/

@whywouldyou_uk blaming Immigrants/Islam for everything. The language used, I am not surprised talks like this radicalise people of the ilk of Breivik/Tarrant
The veneer of respectability under cover of upper class accents/education
is quite thin & imo no different to Tommy Robinson

@whywouldyou_uk Comedy Gold

Our Douglas Murray & Friend on the Anti-Immigrant & Apocalyptic Prophesies of Enoch Powell & ilk

Thousands of comments agree with them

Douglas has a delightfully
impressive face for comedy, essay on their chemistry alone in this sketch

@whywouldyou_uk basic point that all the most
anti-immigrant figures in the 1960s what has happened is on a scale beyond all their doomsday production so that for
British viewers & other European viewers & Commonwealth viewers will be amiliar with the name of Enoch Powell

@whywouldyou_uk 05:45 a prominent conservative & gave a famous speech which became known as the Rivers of Blood speech & you point out in the beginning for your book but if you look at boroughs in
London which are now majority non-white British that's beyond anything Powell predicted in 1968

@whywouldyou_uk 01:10 The Strange Death of Europe Immmigration, Identity, Islam
Douglas great to have you with us a lot of us have dabbled in this terrain..your book though is it winds up very profound & existential there's really 3
elements to the book you deal with the
kind of prosaic

@whywouldyou_uk kind of prosaic bureaucratic govn 01:41
aspects of immigration you travel around Europe meeting some of these refugees at their ports of entry & then you get to actually the big questions about whether Europe Christendom the birthplace of the modern world is dying before our eyes

@whywouldyou_uk & it seems to me just by way of
introduction that actually most
Britain's most Europeans they see the
news as a terrorist attack here there's
something happens in Paris something
happens in Brussels but the political
class and even most European citizens do not even look at it

@whywouldyou_uk even most European citizens do
not even look at it in big picture

Dou : no I think that's exactly right
that I was so fed up with writing about
sort of bits of this question when the
migration crisis in 2015 really kicked
off I was writing pieces going to the
places in Greece

@whywouldyou_uk I'm listening elsewhere and following the story up & just had it endless feeling that first of all it needed to have a dots
connected
and secondly that I needed to write
about what was really going on which it
seemed to me always was centrally about us 03:05

@whywouldyou_uk it was that we had got that
meant that we were doing what I think is a suicidal thing & yes I mean it's
it's strange in Europe these days a way
in which we get caught up on these you
know something happens something blows up in a few hours you know go back to the usual routine

@whywouldyou_uk in a few hours you know go back to
the usual routine next day sort of thing
it within a week you know before the
funerals are over everyone moved on &
I thought this needed to try to be
explained.

@whywouldyou_uk do you as you say it's at a
certain level it's about us so that even
though Islam makes it into the subtitle
of your book. It's it's not primarily
about terrorism or even about Islam
something deeper is going on in Europe
of which Islam & terrorism are really
just symptoms 04:04

@whywouldyou_uk Doug: it's something
you said for a long time..just happens to be the opportunist thing that most serious going on atm but could've been anything in way.
Anything that was assertive & believes in itself.

@whywouldyou_uk say in the book, a sort of set of what I think of as thought diseases that we have, guilt being one, existential tiredness which I explained at one point right there's another that sense that you when trying to look at why politicians others would totally change the society

@whywouldyou_uk why politicians would totally change the society that they ought to be looking after
It can't only be accident no no and it's
certainly not conspiracy cos nobody
could have arranged this so well right

@whywouldyou_uk 04:53 & I thought it's in part this
feeling that if we run out, that
the stories run out.
That is they say at one point that a change is as good as
the rest

Stey: Right right and people do
actually believe it well you just just
to tell the story the way you tell it

@whywouldyou_uk just 05:13
to tell the story the way you tell it
you begin with a very nuts & bolts
chapter on immigration & you make a
the very basic point that all the most
anti-immigrant figures in the 1960s whathas happened is on a scale beyond all their doomsday production

@whywouldyou_uk if you look at the the boroughs in
London which are now majority non-white British that's beyond anything Powell predicted in 1968

in 2011 the official census will show people who.identified as white Britain in a minority in their capital city

@whywouldyou_uk one point that the 07:50
majority of Swedes alive now will live
long enough to see them become a
minority in their own country.
This isSweden which is kind of as far north as you can go in Europe

@whywouldyou_uk with Britain you know the the 1948
British Nationality Act made a 1/4
of the world's population British
subjects they did not distinguish in law
between one of his Majesty's subjects
from Kingston on Diane's Kingston
Ontario Kingston Jamaica you can argue
08:28

@whywouldyou_uk you can argue about whether that's a good idea but it ss a legal fact. Sweden is not anybody's idea of a great global Empire how do Swedes wind up becoming a minority

@whywouldyou_uk Swedes have got no reason to
have post-colonial guilt no I mean
that's a good argument for Britain
having it for a bit you know but but the
Swede then and also then the other
bits of the guilt of course which i
09:03 think is one of the fundamental things in Europe

@whywouldyou_uk one of the fundamental things
in in Europe uh but we're going to have
to shake off but may not you know the Swedes don't seem like they're not that the Germans you know have good cause that have recent complexes & so on and forever
09:19

@whywouldyou_uk forever you know needing to apologize for what they think & feel & do the Swedes actually all of the same things exist & the Swedes do have a kind of weird 09:30
post-colonial saying they have a guilt
thing

@whywouldyou_uk the further away they come from the War the more guilty they feel about it it's it's just more quietly expressed but
they're all symptoms are the same thing
it's just ever so slightly different
inflections in each country

@whywouldyou_uk sometimes one country facts are different but the response is exactly the same yeah
there's an interesting phenomenon that
goes on in Europe

@whywouldyou_uk stey: when I first 09:58 started writing that this I guess you know shortly after 9/11 sophisticated people that think tanks & whatnot used to say well this is a completely banal reductio obviously if you look at Pakistanis in Yorkshire that's
completely different from the

@whywouldyou_uk completely different from the experience in the Algerians in Clichy-sous- Bois or Turks in Hamburg
&in fact none of it is it's like you could toss, you know the Turks could be in Yorkshire and the 10:32
Pakistanis

@whywouldyou_uk the Pakistanis could be in Clichy-sous-Bois it all seems to come out the same
I mean well that's one of the things that you've been on to the longer than anyone & what's so fascinating about isn't is it's almost as if at any one time the only thing worth talking about it

@whywouldyou_uk time the only thing worth talking about it can't be talked about
these armies of endless sort of you know if I give an example in the book at one point of a discussion the University of Heidelberg I was unfortunate to be a
part of & the realization of the
11:03

@whywouldyou_uk the realization of the horror of what thought was thought to be & but it was just an extreme version of something that goes on all the time which is it that any you know think tanking in any public meeting any political discussion any tv show & most of the time & this one is

@whywouldyou_uk any tv show & most of the time and this one aside but I mean any other like BBC you never get into the only thing that matters

note (GB News launching in 35mins tonight)
U never get on to the important thing this is just time to sort of say well u
know there's a huge difference

@whywouldyou_uk you know there's a huge difference in there Douglas between these ppl &
you go yeah well yeah I mean & then thank you
so you don't get a chance to say what about this huge thing that's
happening

@whywouldyou_uk I think there are all sorts of reasons for that one is that it that we console ourselves through this period by pretending it's not going on
but as I say at one point of the book
you know the presumption we've had is
that if you walk with a lie of more than
a generation

@whywouldyou_uk a lie of more than12:00
a generation is if you walk into the
Italian islands or the Greek islands or
anywhere else you walk up through Europe, you become as European as anyone else & you breathe the air of Voltaire/Sam Hall/Dantè

how many indigenous Europeans breathe this air 🤣

@whywouldyou_uk think it's highly unlikely that everyone who arrives in Europe arrives
the same slightly pained wounded &
tired view that modern Europeans find
themselves to be

( cause of migration is ignored)

@whywouldyou_uk 13:10
you described at one point you're in
France &you visit the famous
Cathedral in which Charles Martel's
remains are interred the man who held the line against Islam in 732 & is celebrated & that's why he's buried among the French Kings that's his stature

@whywouldyou_uk yet you said you described the scene around that Cathedral which is really quite remarkable aside from that Christian building in the middle of it it's not Europe anymore no & I said if
Charles Martel got out of his tomb &
wandered just outside..he would think he lost

@whywouldyou_uk 14:0 it's a very strange & painful thing t
the French I think are deeply pained by
this they don't know what to do about it The center of Paris they will know this
place is there, extraordinary part of
their history where the tombs of the
kings lie

@whywouldyou_uk you make it an actually quite
14:33 a subtle point about public transit area in Paris where there's two categories of aubway lines and how it's possible to ride the upper subway line & still think you're in France but the lower
line which is the one the immigrants
take across the

@whywouldyou_uk but the the lowerline which is the one the immigrants.take across the city is creatively different.
The Metro is theshe she sort of Paris you know thin & you know well-dressed & everyone going to the offices. Thats sort of a shallow line that stops quite regularly

@whywouldyou_uk then there is the deeper line the RER which goes out to the suburbs & go down to the.airport & that's not much more occasionally & travelled with a further distance & it's like another
in another world & you know these
places where the RER line comes up in
the centre of Paris

@whywouldyou_uk where the RER line comes up in
the centre Paris ^ there's always they
are the bits that some people to avoid
you know people from the suburbs come up & they go the local McDonald's whatever these are as you well know are two different things living alongside each other

@whywouldyou_uk two different things living alongside
each other but you do get these
intimations sometimes of how this can go.
I tried in the book to say that this is what we're all thinking
about this. I mean everyone apart our
politicians obviously but we're all
worrying about this &

@whywouldyou_uk but we're all worrying about this & it's the version of what I think I explained at one point I think of as being part of the process we've been going through in Europe & American & others been going through

@whywouldyou_uk 16:12 which is that that's sort of feeling that the Boomers & others had that basically history & the future was one-way street you know.
We're going to walk up it & the crowd was all with us & you know we're if you
walk faster you'd get more points but
right we're basically

@whywouldyou_uk We're basically walking to an ever
better & brighter future in which you
know we had more & more rights &
fighting more & more niche rights..
& then we noticed
somebody walking down the other way odd..then more people start walking the
other way

@whywouldyou_uk it seems to me that we in Europe are in the process of wondering what if one day more people are walking the other ways than walking our way right & that'
what's happening
Stey: yeah & it's a you you explain the background to this & in a quite
I mean we have a demographic issue

@whywouldyou_uk a demographic issue is that Europeans do not want to have babies for whatever reason
Dou: can I say that that is 1 of the things I did in this book looking at
this, looking at that question &
it's it's true but we get under that
strange thing of why do people not ask why
17:34

@whywouldyou_uk right so during the period immediately
after Tony Blair massively expanded
the migration into Britain after 1997
if you look at the the public opinion
polls the social attitudes about the
no of babies that women want right
it is actually at the levels which is

y

@whywouldyou_uk it is actually at the levels which is
you know I mean the thing that would
would be a perfectly adequate
replacement. Most women what we know want more than 1child & some want 5 & most want about the 2 know anyth
18:08 stey:
yeah very very few people if they want

@whywouldyou_uk very few people if they want
to have children want to have an only
child
dou: yes & actually it was a very
small no who said I'm not interested
in the kids business yeah & so this
argument & I keep trying in the book
to explain why the arguments we hear with what happened then

@whywouldyou_uk why it happened in the 50's why it happened now why it happened in 2015 were all bogus arguments made up after the facts were put upon us anyway. So if you wanted if you had to worry about not having replacement babies ..in the population

@whywouldyou_uk you look at why women felt
they couldn't have children
18:46 I say 1 point the book anecdotally nobody in my country who knows a young couple hears them say we
really after five children cos they
know that they've got it with two really
good salaries you know they'll work very

@whywouldyou_uk hard to be able to afford the first
well I think when we had to treat
themselves to a 2nd 🤣 & a 3rd is
sort of out & you know the only we can
afford to have more than two babies are
basically the very rich or the very poor
19:15

@whywouldyou_uk Dou: ut that's something you could address I mean doing it's like Angela Merkel thing of we need to import..u know like if you if you've got an aging population & the growing population of the Germans would say they do then sure that you know there are things like raising with

@whywouldyou_uk things like raising retirement age, encouraging people to have more children.
There's loads of things you do before deciding the next generation
of Germans should be from Eritrea

@whywouldyou_uk @threadreaderapp unroll

@whywouldyou_uk @threadreaderapp Sam juiciest bits of the two ladies blathering yet to come
Need to know what they think about Immigration, Christianity, Islam & remember Murray is not just a best selling author but dabbled in policies made : US Muslim Ban
Yet he's crying he doesn't get enough airtime 🤣