Preface/
I wrote this like literally forever ago and it's a mess which is why I never posted it. But @gakonst reminded me of it today.
it's an nugget of a seedling of an idea, maybe, but maybe someone can help it grow.
I wrote this like literally forever ago and it's a mess which is why I never posted it. But @gakonst reminded me of it today.
it's an nugget of a seedling of an idea, maybe, but maybe someone can help it grow.
https://twitter.com/tayvano_/status/1299266656493924352
...and...
....and all the community's outrage at MetaMask for launching their new swap feature w/ a "wAy tOo hIgH" fee...
...and @argentHQ paying for users gas until it got too expensive to do so.....
Yeah. Okay let's go.
https://twitter.com/defiprime/status/1316441933062041606
....and all the community's outrage at MetaMask for launching their new swap feature w/ a "wAy tOo hIgH" fee...
...and @argentHQ paying for users gas until it got too expensive to do so.....
Yeah. Okay let's go.
1/
Crypto/DeFi/NFTs have repeatedly shown that we are wholly capable of creating a huge amt of something out of...not much. And doing so really really fast!
But while the innovation across the Ethereum space is out of this world, tx fees are prohibitively complex and suck.
Crypto/DeFi/NFTs have repeatedly shown that we are wholly capable of creating a huge amt of something out of...not much. And doing so really really fast!
But while the innovation across the Ethereum space is out of this world, tx fees are prohibitively complex and suck.
Removing the tx fee from the end-user experience is harder than it looks.
But more problematic is the products responsible for this experience are infra layer products who don't have an easy token biz model. (e.g. @MetaMask -> @infura_io -> @go_ethereum)
But more problematic is the products responsible for this experience are infra layer products who don't have an easy token biz model. (e.g. @MetaMask -> @infura_io -> @go_ethereum)
One of the most ALIGNED biz models for these infra products would be a fee on all or a subset of transactions.
Sure, they could fap out a ICO/Governance token or sell their users and addresses and financial history to the highest bidder..
But crypto is supposed to be different!
Sure, they could fap out a ICO/Governance token or sell their users and addresses and financial history to the highest bidder..
But crypto is supposed to be different!
But for infra to collect a fee they either have to take a cut of a user's profits somewhere or add a new fee on top.
(Also lol w EIP-1559 users say the max amt theyre willing to pay but if the network doesn't need that much, user gets it back. Crypto infra is so good to yall 🤦♀️)
(Also lol w EIP-1559 users say the max amt theyre willing to pay but if the network doesn't need that much, user gets it back. Crypto infra is so good to yall 🤦♀️)
K but fees on profits have regulatory issues + hard to implement risk free e.g. w/o a middleman contract (EIP-3074 fixes this?)
Adding a fee costs more bc
1) new fee
2) more existing fee due to new a fee tx or contract
Current network tx fees already cost too much!
Adding a fee costs more bc
1) new fee
2) more existing fee due to new a fee tx or contract
Current network tx fees already cost too much!
For all these reasons and way more, it's hard to see how some UI/infra doesn't end up cloning web 2.0 & selling users.
But what if there were a way fees could be paid by the user to *all* the products/teams they use, on a per-transaction basis, w/o $$$ + technical + UX issues?
But what if there were a way fees could be paid by the user to *all* the products/teams they use, on a per-transaction basis, w/o $$$ + technical + UX issues?
Like, what if instead of users paying a fee to miners...or Argent paying fee on behalf of users to miners, the fee was paid from a big pool of money?
What if instead of the user only paying miners, they paid the whole line of service providers that made that tx possible?
What if instead of the user only paying miners, they paid the whole line of service providers that made that tx possible?
What if the fee was allocated to services/miner/network on a per transaction basis but the actual payout occured less frequently?
That would mitigate the 1-tx-requires-2-more-txs-in-fees-plus-fees-and-now-the-network-is-3x-as-full-and-6x-more-expensive problem.
That would mitigate the 1-tx-requires-2-more-txs-in-fees-plus-fees-and-now-the-network-is-3x-as-full-and-6x-more-expensive problem.
It's still more expensive for users to transact, but mostly bc they would now be paying for valuable things that they previously got for free.
Which isn't so bad. IMHO.
Which isn't so bad. IMHO.
It would also be pretty cool if those users also provided a service that earned fees. Like what if users were users sometimes and service-providers other times?
No payout tx would even be needed if I "paid" fees equal to the fees I "received."
No payout tx would even be needed if I "paid" fees equal to the fees I "received."
But what "service" could most people "provide" that would earn them fees?
Not to mention, where tf would a pool of money even come from lol how do you incentivize people to put money in a pool?
😂🤷♀️😂🤷♀️😂
Not to mention, where tf would a pool of money even come from lol how do you incentivize people to put money in a pool?
😂🤷♀️😂🤷♀️😂
Ohhhhh shit.
Dude what if everyone *lends* to the pool. And whenever they transact, the fees are reallocated from their balance to the service providers' balance. All within the pool.
If you run down your balance, you can borrow, from the pool, for a fee.
Dude what if everyone *lends* to the pool. And whenever they transact, the fees are reallocated from their balance to the service providers' balance. All within the pool.
If you run down your balance, you can borrow, from the pool, for a fee.
For folks without tons of excess capital, it could be like "paying upfront" for 10 transactions bc doing so would get you a "free" tx.
For folks with excess capital and low txs, the yields from lending to this pool could generate more than their tx fees ever cost.
For folks with excess capital and low txs, the yields from lending to this pool could generate more than their tx fees ever cost.
For folks w/ excess capital & a lot of transactions, the yield from lending could offset some of their fees. Or, they borrow bc it's convenient, even momentarily.
It's still net positive for them as the txs that are costing them fees are also probs profitting them (arbs etc.)
It's still net positive for them as the txs that are costing them fees are also probs profitting them (arbs etc.)
Plus, this user type has most indirect gains bc paying the products they use
1) grants products more resources to build better+faster
2) other builders are now incentivized to build new and better infra/UI's
3) which creates more competition
4) and gives that user more choice
1) grants products more resources to build better+faster
2) other builders are now incentivized to build new and better infra/UI's
3) which creates more competition
4) and gives that user more choice
I dunno, it all sounds pretty sweet in my head.
I have no idea if this ends up working out economics-wise. 🤷♀️
Even if you completely ignore the obvious risks a contract as technically complex "a big pool of money that pays everyone's fees all the time" introduces.
I have no idea if this ends up working out economics-wise. 🤷♀️
Even if you completely ignore the obvious risks a contract as technically complex "a big pool of money that pays everyone's fees all the time" introduces.
But its not like unknown economics & risk has stopped anyone before.
And maybe I'm biased, but even if it ultimately fails, it would temporarily distribute value to products people are actually using rather than to builders of inept hackable clones like most failures. 🤷♀️😂
And maybe I'm biased, but even if it ultimately fails, it would temporarily distribute value to products people are actually using rather than to builders of inept hackable clones like most failures. 🤷♀️😂
And if it doesn't fail, you've created immense actual value for all network participants.
Not just those who are currently propping up the network for ~free, but for users in the form of better UX and invisible tx fees.
And everyone in the form of better products, etc.
Not just those who are currently propping up the network for ~free, but for users in the form of better UX and invisible tx fees.
And everyone in the form of better products, etc.
I dunno. Like I said, it sounds good in my head. And it's been sitting in my drafts for almost a full year. Now it's in the world. Do with it what you please. 💖
• • •
Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to
force a refresh
