Thread by @MadScientist212

[CW Transphobia] So with the Lily Cade stuff blowing up, I'm already seeing GCs being all "Well she's just one person, this doesn't invalidate the rest of the story."

So let's take a look at some of the rest of the story. Let's take a look at the infamous 80 person survey.

[CW Transphobia] It was a survey published by "Get the L Out" Here's how the BBC describes the group while introducing the survey.

[CW] Transphobia. Here's how the group's website describes themselves. Note that they consider "transgenderism" a misogynistic system that they stand against.

[CW Transphobia] The reason why I am looking at the group before looking at their report is because it's important. We all know that research can be biased and manipulated through various methods. So it's important to know about a group doing research and their stances.

[Transphobia] And here we have Get the L Out telling us, right upfront, that they stand against "transgenderism", aka the very existence of trans people.

I'm sure their methods will be unbiased.

[CW Transphobia] Scroll down their website just a bit and they get right into the cotton ceiling stuff. Note that it's not just that they don't want to have sex with trans women, they consider trans women to be men.

[CW Transphobia] Now getting to the report itself you can see this insistence that trans women are men continues. The introduction of the report is also quite approving of Janice "morally mandate out of existence" Raymond.

[CW Transphobia] I'm not going to spend too much time on the report's introduction, just enough to give you a clear idea of where they are coming from, if the website alone somehow didn't.

[CW Transphobia] One final bit before I get to the findings, apparently Angela Wild had to be convinced by Get the L Out's ethics committee to use the term "transwoman" in the survey, as opposed to men who identify as trans or whatever it is she wanted.

[CW Transphobia] Again, this is the ONLY research the BBC article cites. And this is the way the person conducting it behaves, her actions and viewpoint.

[CW Transphobia] The survey was about more than just sexual coercion btw, it covered a few other topics. For example apparently 50% of the people who responded said they had been kicked out of LGBT groups.

[CW Transphobia] This little bit about dating sites is very telling: even if their is no coercion or pressure, the "very presence" of a trans woman is a violation. Saying the quiet part out loud there.

[CW Transphobia] Now we get to the pressure part. Interestingly, that 56% figure includes "indirect pressure" such as what happens online. Given the bias language it's not totally clear what forms that indirect pressure takes: would someone saying "trans women are women" count?

[CW Tranphobia] I'm not going to dispute or argue about the cases of sexual assault or rape mentioned. It would be easy to lie on a survey like this, but I don't know what happened, and trans women sadly can be predators too.

[CW Transphobia] Nor am I going to argue against the cases where it's reported people were directly guilt tripped/etc into sex. Again I don't know what happened.

Instead I'm going to show a few were how the survey's horrible methodology conflates things together.

[CW Transphobia] I've already mentioned the bad indirect pressure section, which relies on questionable language, but wait till you get to the "Deception" section. This is the entire section in the findings.

[CW Transphobia] Honestly, despite there being so little, I could go on for so much. There is so much wrong with this section, and it so reveals the hatefulness of their ideology. Let's look at this part first. Notice something missing?

Where is the deception?

[CW Transphobia] They were going to have three way sex, they were told one of the women was trans, they freaked out. How did the trans woman deceive them?

The answer is in that "passed very well."

[CW Transphobia] According to the Get the L Out survey the BBC used, merely passing well enough for a cis woman is predatory deception. You are "betraying" and "violating" a cis woman if you pass well enough for them to not know you're trans.

[CW Transphobia] The survey's conclusion mentions "rape by deception" but there's no mention of that in the rape section. So I assume it means stuff like this.

[CW Transphobia] I hope I don't have to explain how horrific it is to equate consensual sex with someone to rape just because you find out they're trans afterwards. This is the type of rhetoric that gets trans women murdered by their sexual partners.

[CW Transphobia] I'm not sure whether these "deception" cases are counting towards the 56% "pressure or coercion" figure or not. Some of the earlier sections like the LGBT groups thing I'm pretty sure probably didn't, but-

[CW Transphobia] The "Deception" section occurs after they start talking about pressure, coercion, sexual assault, etc, and is followed by this. So my guess is they probably are counting "a trans woman passes and expresses romantic interest" as coercion, but can't say for sure.

[CW Transphobia] I highlighted "queer ideology" there to show how they are conflating things. Because you might ask, what is "queer ideology" according to them. Well there's no place where they pause to explicitly define it that I could find, but...

[CW Transphobia] So I guess that answers my previous question about whether or not someone online saying "trans women are women" would count as "indirect pressure".

[CW Transphobia] This is the survey the BBC used, the "research" they cited, the ONLY piece of research online.

And it says that accepting trans women as women is queer coercion.

That passing well enough for someone to be attracted to you is deception.

[CW Transphobia] That having sex with someone without disclosing you're trans is rape by deception.

So no, it's not just Lily Cade. She's kinda overshadowing everything right now, but everything in that BBC article is rotten to the core.

[CW Transphobia] Don't believe me? Check for yourselves. archive.md/G5Dsv

[CW Transphobia] Or don't if you don't want to be exposed to some gross stuff, because there's plenty of horrible I didn't address. So reader discretion.

[CW Transphobia] Also I should add that the full report has at least brief mention of stuff like rape, sexual assault, domestic violence, grooming, and other unpleasant stuff. I didn't get into any of that in my thread because like I said, I don't know what happened-

[CW Transphobia] And while I understand that some of the examples could be lies or distortions, I don't really want to get into speculation about that now. But just be aware of that if you do read the report yourself, in addition to the transphobia throughout.