Thread by @aballinga

Court is back for Pat King's bail hearing, after Crown wrapped up cross-examining his proposed surety, Kerry Komix.

King enters the courtroom with a pile of papers upper his arm, sits down in prisoner's box and leans on his elbow.

Karimjee says the Crown is seeking King's detention (so to deny his bail).

Karimjee now going through some previous cases. He says the presumption of innocence is not the same thing as presuming there is no risk to an accused person's release.

Karimjee says the allegations against King indicate there is a substantial likelihood of him reoffending if he's released on bail.

Karimjee says the offence King is charged with is effectively "the occupation... of the capital of Canada."
He cites road closures and noise that police evidence says was, on average, similar to an alarm clock going off.

"What we know, your worship, from what is quite disturbing evidence" that shows King in a video laughing about the honking. "It was his intention to use that noise to get the federal gov't to negotiate."

He quotes King using the term "art of war."
Karimjee: He was at war with the city of Ottawa. "Noise was a form of torture."
He says he can only describe King's laugh as "sadistic."

"This person is self-centred. This person does not care about the pain that's imposed on others. This person is not controllable by any court order," Karimjee says.

Karimjee also notes King in another video asking people to lie to cops to get through checkpoints last week.
"We have no evidence, given his prior statements... that he would comply with any court order," Karimjee says.

Karimjee arguing now that despite pleas from government and police to stop, the occupation continued "flagrantly in disobedience of the law."

He shows again a photo of trucks clogging the intersection of Rideau and Sussex outside the Senate. "This is an occupation," he says. More photos of Wellington and Kent, Wellington and Metcalfe, show streets blocked with trucks and crowds.

"This has nothing to do with local protests. This is the offence of mischief," Karimjee says. "This was a clear, clear commission of a criminal offence."

Karimjee now pulls up a court decision from 1991, in which Justice Fournier determined an accused's commitment of an unlawful act was not protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

He quotes the decision, in which it says using an unlawful act to express oneself is not protected under the charter.

The court concluded the offence of mischief, therefore, is constitutional, Karimjee says.

Karimjee says there is no reality "in fact or in fiction" that says the Crown's case against King is limited by the constitution.

Karimjee says King was mockingly laughing at Ottawans "pain and suffering" during the honking. "He was using it as a means to an end, of whatever his ideology dictated. He also decided it was right to tell his supporters to lie to the police."

"He is a self-appointed judge of what is acceptable and not, and I would respectfully submit that the surety" -- Kerry Komix -- "is in the same bucket."

He says King and Komix were both part of the occupation for weeks, despite calls from gov't and cops to get out.

Karimjee then references another video in which King is talking about retreating from the occupation to regroup and then come back again. "How can this court have any confidence that somehow your honour's order is going to be special?"

"We have somebody who has participated in the very criminal activity that Mr. King is charged with, and is being offered as a surety," Karimjee says.

Karimjee argues Komix was not being truthful about her role in fundraising for the convoy through cryptocurrency. "The only inference that can be made is that that action... indicates that she, again, is part of the club of the ends justifying the means."

"We have a truck load of evidence from the accused person himself posting on social media," that shows concerns about releasing King on bail, Karimjee says.

Karimjee points to an interview before the convoy arrived in Ottawa, in which King "declared his intention of shutting Ottawa down."

The article includes a quote attributed to King: "You want to get to work? Good luck. Walk."
Karimjee says that shows premeditation.

"Just like he had no problem with inflicting pain on the citizens of Ottawa, and laughing sadistically at the citizens of Ottawa not being able to sleep," he stated his intention to disrupt transportation, Karimjee says.

Karimjee now references how Komix said she has only known King for four weeks. She also said she didn't know about King's "disgusting" and racist comments, and his suggestion that "this is going to end with bullets."

"Clearly the court can conclude she does not know the accused, and her being proposed as a surety is like one thief being tasked to supervise another burglar."

Karimjee says King has expressed violence, and that to release him to "another member of the occupation" would raise questions about the administration of justice.

"You cannot plan to start a fire, start a fire, add fuel to it, and when the fire spreads say, oh my, that's the impact?" Karimjee says, anticipating a potential argument from defence about King's intentions with the protest.

Karimjee points to another previous court decision. It says it's acceptable to distinguish between criminal responsibility for equally bad acts on the basis of the harm they cause.

"In this case there is no doubt," Karimjee says, that the "noise torture" in downtown Ottawa was "planned. It was the very intention expressed by Mr. King."

Another case, R v. St-Cloud. The Supreme Court concluded pre-trial detention "will usually be ordered" if the crime is "serious or very violent" or "if there is overwhelming evidence" and if victims "were vulnerable."

"The occupation of the capital of Canada is more than just serious," Karimjee says. "It has never happened in the history of Canada."

Karimjee also says the victims in this case were vulnerable. Points to King's video of him laughing about how Ottawans couldn't sleep because of the honking.
"Mr. King knew that they were vulnerable, that he had subjected them to torture."

Karimjee also cites impacts on workers in Rideau Centre, which was closed through the occupation.
"In this case, with the evidence that the court has heard, and the plan that's being proposed" for King's bail, to release him would jeopardize confidence in justice system.

Karimjee says not all mischief charges are alike. This is the occupation of the capital, the "infliction of noise torture," he says.

He also cites how the SCC has said pre-trial detention should not be used "only in rare cases" or "only to certain types of crimes."

Karimjee says the alleged offence is "at the extreme" end of seriousness. And even though police showed significant restraint, King asked supporters to lie to get past cops into the city, Karimjee says.

He says the Crown is seeking a "significant" jail sentence for King.

"The court should detain the accused," Karimjee says. "There is no stretch of the imagination in which this is constitutionally protected conduct."

If he's not detained, "what's the message" sent? Karimjee asks.
He says it would "make a mockery of our justice system."

King's lawyer, W. Calvin Rosemond is making his case now. He says the court should "militate towards" King's release. He says there's no evidence of a substantial likelihood he would reoffend on bail, even without a surety.

Rosemond argues Karimjee's concerns are "categorically" dealt with with Komix as King's surety. He argues that King's detention would actual bring the justice system into disrepute. It would case him to spend "many months" in jail before his trial.

He says that length of time would exceed an actual jail sentence if he pleads guilty, and expresses doubt that he would even be found guilty of his charges on the evidence.

Rosemond cites how courts are facing backlogs, and that would cause him to spend more time in custody than if he just pleaded guilty.
"You would be treating a completely innocent man worse" than a guilty man, Rosemond says.

Rosemond says the Crown can't actually point to a day or a time or a comment when King did any "particularized harm."

"With this plan," Rosemond says, King would get reasonable bail and protect society, without perverting the administration of justice.

Rosemond also notes the bail plan would take King to Alberta, far from where the alleged offences were committed (in Ontario)

Rosemond says Komix understands what it will take to be King's surety, make sure he attends court, even if it's in person from Alberta.

He says Komix is basically creating a jail cell in the community, which will help deal with backlog in the court. He says there's nothing to connect King directly with the honking in Ottawa, and that there is no way he could disturb the peace in Ottawa if he's out on bail in Alta

Rosemond says there's nothing "especially pernicious" about suggesting pandemic restrictions should be lifted. He says that's what the federal Conservatives and Joel Lightbound want.

Rosemond also says King won't be able to communicate online, because Komix has said she would restrict and monitor his access to the Internet.

"She's going to follow your bail order to the letter of the law," Rosemond says.

Rosemond says Komix is also a light sleeper and a "straight shooter" who was not evasive under cross examination. She also has a dog that barks.
"That should strike the fear of God into Mr. King," to not try and sneak off from Komix's house when he's on bail.

Rosemond also says it will be better for the community if King is at Komix's house instead of in jail. He says King might get a cell phone in jail, and then "do whatever it is" the Crown is worried about.

So, Rosemond says, he won't be in Ottawa, won't have a cell phone, and will have one-on-one supervision if he gets bail to Komix's house.

Rosemond says the only knock on Komix is that she's only known King for four weeks. But Rosemond says no one in the Ottawa jail system has known him that long, and argues you don't need to know someone well to be their surety.

Rosemond also cites Komix's experience with special needs students, "dealing with people in difficult" situations is another tool she can use to deal with King if he gets bail.

Rosemond also says he can cite cases where people are released on bail after being accused of having loaded firearms and drugs. He says King isn't endangering the public in that way.

Rosemond also says the pledge amount is significant and a big deal for Komix (she's pledging at least $50,000 to post King's bail)

"Mr. King would be absolutely foolish to breach her trust on a bail like this when she's giving up so much to secure his liberty," Rosemond says.

He argues there's every reason to suggest that Komix would be able to "control Mr. King."

Rosemond also says Karimjee "cherry-picked" clips from videos and quotes from articles.

"Politics and inflammatory information aside, this is a clear case for release," he says.

Rosemond says the Crown is focused on the past, and that the accusations against him are "weak" and general. But he agrees "racism is absolutely disgusting."

But he says racism is not a good reason to deny someone bail.

"Whether or not he is a racist I'm telling you is completely irrelevant," Rosemond says. He refers to Komix's statement that King is a stepdad to mixed race kids, which "falls into contrast with whatever Crown theory is being raised."

Rosemond also says the clips of King saying racist comment about Anglo-Saxons having the strongest bloodline could be lacking context. "We don't really even know what it is about at all," he says.

Rosemond says King would not breach bail conditions even without a surety, but Komix putting up for him can give the court extra confidence it's safe to release him.

"There's nothing about someone's political views that prevents them from being a good surety," Rosemond says, arguing Komix has shown she knows her responsibilities and has indicated she can ensure bail conditions are respected.

Rosemond says King is already in "some jeopardy" for his conduct, because of the civil case against him, which might be considered as part of his bail. "These aren't the end of his troubles," Rosemond says.

He argues the community should be comfortable with King's release, and says two sides of convoy debate aren't that far apart. Trudeau was elected in 2015 on "freedom." He argues JT wanted to "legalize things" and give people a voice.

Rosemond says King shouldn't be "used as a Medieval style symbol of 'don't get smart with us'" if he is detained as an example to the horde of demonstrators.

On King's laughter in the video, "laughing's not a crime," even if it is "mean-spirited and rude and said," Rosemond says. "And it doesn't mean that he is perpetuating the crime in the first place."

He says he imagines many people opposed to pandemic health measures would get some pleasure knowing their message was being heard. "I think that's just the Crown's attempt to play into emotion," Rosemond says.

Rosemond suggests King has probably had "some change of heart" after spending four days in jail already.

"He's spent four long, cold, hard days in jail... He's been in a cell with somebody that may or may not have COVID... Every other person that we have in custody exacerbates this pandemic."

Rosemond argues the COVID risk of his bail to Komix's house is much lower than if King stays behind bars.

Rosemond says the Crown's case will get weaker with more scrutiny as well.

He's referring again to a mother from Kamloops that got her account frozen for donating to the convoy. (Wasn't that revealed to be not true? I am honestly asking)

Rosemond also questions how Karimjee suggested raising crypto money was to evade government scrutiny, referring to how major banks have crypto funds.

Rosemond now referencing another case of "horrifying" sexual assault in which the accused was released on bail. And he questions whether the convoy demonstration was an "occupation" of historic proportions as the Crown described it.

He also says there's no evidence that King personally did anything to block roads.

Rosemond also says King is not self-centred as Crown described, and that even if he is, that would mean he would be more likely to follow bail conditions to avoid going back to jail.

Rosemond says there's no evidence that King caused anyone to lie to police, calls the assertion "theoretical argument."
"We can't be jailing him for people that other people are doing."

JP Seymour asks Rosemond to review his remaining notes and to clarify his points. Rosemond says he'll stop repeating and go as fast as possible from here.

Karimjee asks for a break, and says he wants to come back with a reply.
Seymour says before the break that he will try to bring a decision back later this week.

They're going on a break for 15 minutes. I'll start a new thread for the last bit.