Thread for day 2 of the @BCnursemidwife Disciplinary Committee Hearing for Amy Eileen Hamm (@preta_6). The thread for Day 1 is linked.
#IStandWithAmyHamm #nurseswillspeak #womenwillspeak
#IStandWithAmyHamm #nurseswillspeak #womenwillspeak
https://twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1572662970563588097
Day 2 of this hearing took place on Sept 22. This is the second of three planned days for the @BCnursemidwife College to present a case to support their citation. 
Excerpt from the citation is below. Important to note that this all began because of two complaints, one by Alex Turriff, one anonymous about a I❤️@jk_rowling billboard that @preta_6 helped put up.
I am tweeting from my notes. Day 2 starts with the continuation of KB (counsel for Amy) cross examining Elizabeth Saewyc, one of the College’s two expert witnesses.
nursing.ubc.ca/our-people/eli…
nursing.ubc.ca/our-people/eli…
KB outlines her plan for the day
- to finish cross of ES
- will not begin cross of Greta Bauer (College’s next expert) until tomorrow and so suggests an early start
- Will take up a procedural matter re Bauer’s testimony.
- to finish cross of ES
- will not begin cross of Greta Bauer (College’s next expert) until tomorrow and so suggests an early start
- Will take up a procedural matter re Bauer’s testimony.
Panel Member Also suggests she will have question re Greta Bauer’s testimony.
Then if all goes to plan, @preta_6’s defence will begin in October and also run three days.
Then if all goes to plan, @preta_6’s defence will begin in October and also run three days.
KB - asks ES if she had a chance to look at materials for her report, catalog them?
ES
- about 505 pages received from College including 367 pg report from Pallatin (tweets) supplemental 130 pages about Amy’s podcast (Gender Storytime Hour), an essay by @jk_rowling ..etc.
ES
- about 505 pages received from College including 367 pg report from Pallatin (tweets) supplemental 130 pages about Amy’s podcast (Gender Storytime Hour), an essay by @jk_rowling ..etc.
- not sent AA’s (the investigator) affidavit filed for this hearing.
- received a report from AA dated May21/21 and Pallatin’s report
- did see that Pallatin wrongly claimed Provincial Health Service Authority policy re gender affirming care (tweeted by Amy) was not public
- received a report from AA dated May21/21 and Pallatin’s report
- did see that Pallatin wrongly claimed Provincial Health Service Authority policy re gender affirming care (tweeted by Amy) was not public
- affirms that policy was public and available on the PHSA website.
*Note this link may or may not be the actual policy discussed above but will provide information and insight about the PHSA gender care policy in general.
phsa.ca/transcarebc/ab…
*Note this link may or may not be the actual policy discussed above but will provide information and insight about the PHSA gender care policy in general.
phsa.ca/transcarebc/ab…
*Note I tried to find PHSA stand alone sites like TCBC for diabetes or the poison drug crisis (that currently kills 6 people in BC every single day and was declared a public health emergency in 2016). Some success for diabetes, not much at all for the drug crisis.
- has not reviewed any information about treatment provided by Amy or seen any complaints about it.
- only AA notes about Amy’s meeting with her employee about these same complaints (Amy’s employer declined to discipline or censure her in any way)
- only AA notes about Amy’s meeting with her employee about these same complaints (Amy’s employer declined to discipline or censure her in any way)
- not given any info about Amy’s work as a public health nurse on the Downtown Eastside but agrees that it would entail working with a marginalized community.
BO objects, outside of scope of issues in citation.
KB says that it shows Amy has helped marginalized community.
BO objects, outside of scope of issues in citation.
KB says that it shows Amy has helped marginalized community.
That Amy provided care to gay, bi, homeless and trans people - people whose marginalization is intersectional
KB says BO’s objections are messing up her cross. Says cross examination usually enjoys wide latitude.
KB says BO’s objections are messing up her cross. Says cross examination usually enjoys wide latitude.
BO objects to her objection. Says discussing marginalized communities shouldn’t open the door to talking about Amy’s work with them. Says Amy’s character is not relevant. Only Amy’s conduct is in question.
KB replies that accusations of professional misconduct will always implicate character. Showing her interaction with these communities is relevant.
Panel adjourns to decide if KB can continue this lines of questioning.
Panel adjourns to decide if KB can continue this lines of questioning.
KB continues.
ES
- yes, LGBT among poor in DTES where Amy formerly worked
- no, have not seen any evidence that Amy misgendering anyone while practising there as public health nurse (or anywhere)
- Amy would have been in contact with LGBT as front line psych nurse
ES
- yes, LGBT among poor in DTES where Amy formerly worked
- no, have not seen any evidence that Amy misgendering anyone while practising there as public health nurse (or anywhere)
- Amy would have been in contact with LGBT as front line psych nurse
- about 2% of population in Canada are trans
- more adolescents use term Non Binary than adults
- not aware WPATH added eunuchs in latest standards of care as hasn’t read them
- not aware WPATH referring to sex offenders as MAPS (minor attracted person)
- more adolescents use term Non Binary than adults
- not aware WPATH added eunuchs in latest standards of care as hasn’t read them
- not aware WPATH referring to sex offenders as MAPS (minor attracted person)
* Note ES (and as we will see, Greta Bauer, the College’s next expert witness) are both members of WPATH and attended the very recent conference in Montreal where the latest standards of care were introduced.
- is not a criminologist but agrees most sex offenders are males but calls them cis men or people assigned male at birth
- first encountered the term the “cotton ceiling” in material provided about Amy
- first encountered the term the “cotton ceiling” in material provided about Amy
- thinks it’s about a barrier between cis & trans women, maybe about choosing cotton underwear.
KB asks if she understands how it relates to the fact that lesbians aren’t attracted to and don’t want to have sex with men.
ES says she’s not sure because “men” is a gender term.
KB asks if she understands how it relates to the fact that lesbians aren’t attracted to and don’t want to have sex with men.
ES says she’s not sure because “men” is a gender term.
KB restates.
ES
- then it would be an objection by cis lesbians to sleep with trans women.
- some cis lesbians do sleep with trans women but some lesbians only sleep with people who have a certain body configuration.
ES
- then it would be an objection by cis lesbians to sleep with trans women.
- some cis lesbians do sleep with trans women but some lesbians only sleep with people who have a certain body configuration.
- not familiar with origin of term “cotton ceiling”
KB asks if ES is familiar with the term “TERF”?
ES
- from social media
- appears to be derogatory
- think trans are different gender than they id as
- may misgender, say man for woman , sir not ma’am, use incorrect pronouns
KB asks if ES is familiar with the term “TERF”?
ES
- from social media
- appears to be derogatory
- think trans are different gender than they id as
- may misgender, say man for woman , sir not ma’am, use incorrect pronouns
- asserts that there are both trans & cis people who don’t pass as their gender
- there can be accidental misgendering
- misgendering creates distress, not specific to trans, even cis don’t like it.
- won’t leave open any misgendering by Amy was accidental, says intentional
- there can be accidental misgendering
- misgendering creates distress, not specific to trans, even cis don’t like it.
- won’t leave open any misgendering by Amy was accidental, says intentional
- says women is a gender term so appropriate for sexually intact male
- male/female are sex terms, man/woman are gender terms
- sex & gender can be conflated and connected
- gender id is term used in child development since the 1960’s
- male/female are sex terms, man/woman are gender terms
- sex & gender can be conflated and connected
- gender id is term used in child development since the 1960’s
- agrees that WHO’s definition of sex is different than gender ID
- says most people have binary identity
- says most people have binary identity
- though said in report that harm comes to trans people by misgendering happening in clinical settings and that trans are not respected in clinical settings, has not personally seen anyone be misgendered or disrespected.
- knowledge comes through qualitative studies…etc.
- knowledge comes through qualitative studies…etc.
- has done many qualitative studies, with students doing dissertations, lists boards she’s on including WPATH and CPATH, admits it’s anecdotal evidence re not respecting trans privacy.
KB asks if hospitals are segregated by sex and if not, how….
BO objects, how relevant?
KB asks if hospitals are segregated by sex and if not, how….
BO objects, how relevant?
KB say sex segregation is foundation of barrier to care to Trans people, is going through the barriers to care that are alleged to cause harm, see if they explicitly cause harm. She reminds BO that wide latitude is allowed in cross examination.
BO’s objection is not upheld.
BO’s objection is not upheld.
*Note about some of KB’s cross and BO’s objections:
Usually wide latitude is allowed in cross examination. Especially in an administrative hearing like this disciplinary hearing. The rules of evidence are also more relaxed than in a civil or criminal hearing.
Usually wide latitude is allowed in cross examination. Especially in an administrative hearing like this disciplinary hearing. The rules of evidence are also more relaxed than in a civil or criminal hearing.
Previously BO objected & said hearing wasn’t about Amy’s character so KB shouldn’t be able to ask questions about Amy’s work on the DTES as a public health nurse. This work was with homeless and poor people, people who were also gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans & aboriginal.
Next, KB has been asking asking ES about specific harms caused to the trans community in health care settings.
BO has objected to these questions about specific harms. He says the case is about Amy’s tweets, not harms.
BO has objected to these questions about specific harms. He says the case is about Amy’s tweets, not harms.
KB has pointed out that the College has alleged that those tweets have caused specific harms in the health care setting so…. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Back to KB’s cross of ES.
ES
- WHO definition of sex/gender is authoritative (*marked as an exhibit)
- listens to correct definition of cotton ceiling (breaking through lesbian’s panties) and agrees no one has to want to have sex with everyone
ES
- WHO definition of sex/gender is authoritative (*marked as an exhibit)
- listens to correct definition of cotton ceiling (breaking through lesbian’s panties) and agrees no one has to want to have sex with everyone
- if cis lesbian says only cis in context of dating, fine. If said in public, the context will determine if it’s transphobic.
BO objects - trans people use men or women which are gender terms, not other terms like bio (KB uses bio, Es uses cis/trans) that are transphobic.
BO objects - trans people use men or women which are gender terms, not other terms like bio (KB uses bio, Es uses cis/trans) that are transphobic.
ES
- lesbians stating they don’t date trans women could be transphobic
- can’t say if removing lesbians from dating sites for saying only women is okay.
- lesbians stating they don’t date trans women could be transphobic
- can’t say if removing lesbians from dating sites for saying only women is okay.
ES
- thinks a very long time but cannot confidently recall a personal observation of a trans person being discriminated against in a health care setting.
- thinks a very long time but cannot confidently recall a personal observation of a trans person being discriminated against in a health care setting.
BO keeps trying to object.
ES
- can recall hearing about discrimination from others but hasn’t seen
- is trans people present with a care card that happens to have old” name then they should be asked what name they prefer even if just tiny chance they use different name
ES
- can recall hearing about discrimination from others but hasn’t seen
- is trans people present with a care card that happens to have old” name then they should be asked what name they prefer even if just tiny chance they use different name
- they may prefer middle name or nickname
- not using preferred name could be distressful, harmful, could out trans person
- says physiology is relevant to health care
*Note. KB consistently uses natal, bio or sex. ES consistently answers with cis/trans or physiology.
- not using preferred name could be distressful, harmful, could out trans person
- says physiology is relevant to health care
*Note. KB consistently uses natal, bio or sex. ES consistently answers with cis/trans or physiology.
KB refers to an editorial in British Journal of Medicine. It is about the need for a clear distinction between sex and gender in health care and medical data.
bmj.com/content/372/bm…
bmj.com/content/372/bm…
ES
- it’s an editorial so not authoritative
- agrees that BMJ is authoritative journal
- discusses how birth certificates can be changed in Canada even for children
- agrees not transphobic to ask body parts….if relevant
- it’s an editorial so not authoritative
- agrees that BMJ is authoritative journal
- discusses how birth certificates can be changed in Canada even for children
- agrees not transphobic to ask body parts….if relevant
- not sure if sex should be retained on medical records but should always ask patient anyway
- not sure if both sex and gender should both be recorded but agrees it engages the system
- concedes that nurse could offend patient if both sex and gender info not available
- not sure if both sex and gender should both be recorded but agrees it engages the system
- concedes that nurse could offend patient if both sex and gender info not available
BMJ Editorial is accepted as exhibit.
ES
- has not personally seen denial of service to trans people because they are trans
- public health nurses do not create barriers to care
- a GP new to a trans patient shouldn’t deny care for things like diabetes
ES
- has not personally seen denial of service to trans people because they are trans
- public health nurses do not create barriers to care
- a GP new to a trans patient shouldn’t deny care for things like diabetes
- they may say they don’t have the expertise but may really be disgusted or react with hostility
- if really don’t have expertise, could use a consultant
- again anecdotal, haven’t actually seen
- admits taking cross sex hormones can affect treatment of things like ankle sprains
- if really don’t have expertise, could use a consultant
- again anecdotal, haven’t actually seen
- admits taking cross sex hormones can affect treatment of things like ankle sprains
- taking HRT can affect other medical conditions
- if not competent, doctor should refer patient
- says hasn’t seen a no referral case personally or heard of a human rights case filed for denial of service by doctor.
- heard of HR case regarding pronouns
- if not competent, doctor should refer patient
- says hasn’t seen a no referral case personally or heard of a human rights case filed for denial of service by doctor.
- heard of HR case regarding pronouns
*Note. Again this is the case I attended and that Amy covered here which has nothing to do with medical care or denial@of service.
thepostmillennial.com/watch-non-bina…
thepostmillennial.com/watch-non-bina…
The restaurant claimed the waitress was fired because they slammed a door and hit the employee that they claimed misgendered them.
Memorable parts for me were Adrienne Smith, they’s lawyer angrily stating that even one single instance of misgendering (in this case using she instead of they) was discrimination under the HR Code.
And “they” suggesting at a staff meeting days after they were hired that all gendered language should be avoided, so using “y’all” instead of “ladies and gentlemen” when greeting customers in order to avoid offending non binary people.
Will reiterate my misgivings about rulings from quasi judicial hearings led by non judges becoming part of case law unless subjected to judicial review (very costly and time consuming so rarely done).
Perfect illustration of why this is double plus bad.
Perfect illustration of why this is double plus bad.
ES
- can’t find example in Health Care
- can only find example of nurse doing it in literature (reports) of trans people
- says good to hear that no reports of Amy misgendering or discriminating against anyone in her 10years as a Public Health nurse in the DTES.
- can’t find example in Health Care
- can only find example of nurse doing it in literature (reports) of trans people
- says good to hear that no reports of Amy misgendering or discriminating against anyone in her 10years as a Public Health nurse in the DTES.
- there was no control group because it was population study done in BC schools
* Note - The comparisons between trans/nb kids and non trans/nb kids in the study implies to me that they were using them as a control group.
* Note - The comparisons between trans/nb kids and non trans/nb kids in the study implies to me that they were using them as a control group.
ES
- 38k participated
- 98% were cis, 2% were trans or non binary
- everyone has a gender identity just like everyone has a sexual orientation just like everyone has a gender identity.
- 38k participated
- 98% were cis, 2% were trans or non binary
- everyone has a gender identity just like everyone has a sexual orientation just like everyone has a gender identity.
KB points out that gender dysphoria is listed as mental illness in report.
Report is marked as exhibit.
Report is marked as exhibit.
KB points out
- gender incongruence listed in the International Classification of Diseases
- gender dysphoria is listed in the latest DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
- both the ICD and DSM are used in Canada to classify diseases.
- gender incongruence listed in the International Classification of Diseases
- gender dysphoria is listed in the latest DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
- both the ICD and DSM are used in Canada to classify diseases.
Now discussion about whey UBC is ranked #1 for nursing program, what constitutes a nurse educator.
*Note - good time to remind everyone that @preta_6, our own Amy Hamm graduated from UBC, the #1 nursing school with honours.
*Note - good time to remind everyone that @preta_6, our own Amy Hamm graduated from UBC, the #1 nursing school with honours.
Now KB asks and ES agrees that other marginalized groups besides trans people need advocacy.
That advocate for a particular group is only for that particular group? ES agrees.
That an advocacy group for black women need not include or advocate for Asian women?
BO objects.
That advocate for a particular group is only for that particular group? ES agrees.
That an advocacy group for black women need not include or advocate for Asian women?
BO objects.
BO says soapbox questions. (KB is on a soapbox?)
KB says relevant as case is about Amy’s advocacy. Says BO’s many objections are derailing her cross and forces her to reveal thrust of her arguments to witness. Makes her cross less effective.
Panel disallows BO’s objection
KB says relevant as case is about Amy’s advocacy. Says BO’s many objections are derailing her cross and forces her to reveal thrust of her arguments to witness. Makes her cross less effective.
Panel disallows BO’s objection
ES
- yes
- not sure if trans exclusionary
- claims sex assigned at birth important in policy
- clear not for M to F people
KB says they see themselves as advocating for young girls?
BO objects
- yes
- not sure if trans exclusionary
- claims sex assigned at birth important in policy
- clear not for M to F people
KB says they see themselves as advocating for young girls?
BO objects
KB says asking about caWsbar’s stated policy
ES
- yes clear they do, but not accurate as they are not aligned with healthcare standards
- yes, include F to M but not M to F
- yes, disagree with transition for young girls, disagree with current healthcare standards
ES
- yes clear they do, but not accurate as they are not aligned with healthcare standards
- yes, include F to M but not M to F
- yes, disagree with transition for young girls, disagree with current healthcare standards
- yes, they define their special interest, adovocate and want to grow public support
- yes, advocacy, whether good or bad
- name is too narrow
- yes, say no men in women’s prisons
- yes, have said no men (no matter gender id) in rape crisis centres
- yes, advocacy, whether good or bad
- name is too narrow
- yes, say no men in women’s prisons
- yes, have said no men (no matter gender id) in rape crisis centres
- yes, have said no men (no matter gender id) in women’s sports.
Lunch break.
More cross from KB.
ES
- has seen use of cervix havers
- research challenge to assume only cis women have cervixes
- acknowledges most research mentioned was older research about hysterectomies
Lunch break.
More cross from KB.
ES
- has seen use of cervix havers
- research challenge to assume only cis women have cervixes
- acknowledges most research mentioned was older research about hysterectomies
- says that’s changing but can’t say what % of current research would be affected
- says WPATH definition of gender id has been used since the 1960’s.
- says WPATH definition of gender id has been used since the 1960’s.
Note* It has been known that children as young as three can say I’m a boy or I’m a girl. That is their physical sex - daddy’s a boy and I’m like Daddy.
And that they recognize the sex roles society applies to their sex and have begun to internalize them.
And that they recognize the sex roles society applies to their sex and have begun to internalize them.
That is not what ES means. She means the definition used by the Henry Benjamin and others from the Henry Benjamin Society. This is the org that became WPATH.
Notable contributors and users of this definition include John Money, infamous for the forced transition and subsequent suicide of David Reiner.
Also see 👇
Also see 👇
KB now asks ES about desistance
ES
- people who may not continue to id as trans or continue with gender affirming health care
- says the only 6-23% for boys and 12-23% persistence rate for girls is old data
- claims they were measuring gender dysphoria differently back then
ES
- people who may not continue to id as trans or continue with gender affirming health care
- says the only 6-23% for boys and 12-23% persistence rate for girls is old data
- claims they were measuring gender dysphoria differently back then
- but yes there is desistance
- estimated numbers vary widely
KB asks another cervix haver question - terms won’t be understood by immigrant or ESL women
BO objects
KB reframes
KB - trans should be called women.
- estimated numbers vary widely
KB asks another cervix haver question - terms won’t be understood by immigrant or ESL women
BO objects
KB reframes
KB - trans should be called women.
Es
- or trans women, it’s respectful
- should be translated so immigrant/ESL women understand
- it can be the duty of HC providers to educate patients/co-workers about respectful language
- for example, racist language, abuse even violence
- or trans women, it’s respectful
- should be translated so immigrant/ESL women understand
- it can be the duty of HC providers to educate patients/co-workers about respectful language
- for example, racist language, abuse even violence
- not sure if nurse should educate psychotic patients on respectful language like trans women
- trickier if trans woman isn’t known to be present, may not know if other marginalized groups present, best to be mindful
- trickier if trans woman isn’t known to be present, may not know if other marginalized groups present, best to be mindful
- no hasn’t seen or heard any evidence that Amy used any disrespectful language in her clinical practice.
- says Amy explicitly states that trans women aren’t women which conflates sex and gender (female is sex, woman is gender)
- saying trans women cannot be women is inaccurate
- not just disrespectful, negative and mocking
-have been using term “women” as gender since 1970’s.
- saying trans women cannot be women is inaccurate
- not just disrespectful, negative and mocking
-have been using term “women” as gender since 1970’s.
Note* - could a radical feminist volunteer to educate ES on how we conceptualized and used gender since the 1970’s.
I know there is an excellent graphic detailing gender as repressive and regressive sex roles imposed on women but can’t find it!
I know there is an excellent graphic detailing gender as repressive and regressive sex roles imposed on women but can’t find it!
ES
- says Canadian Institute of Health and Stats Canada have definition of gender
- hasn’t heard of the books “Material Girls” or “Trans”.
- says Canadian Institute of Health and Stats Canada have definition of gender
- hasn’t heard of the books “Material Girls” or “Trans”.
ES
- not sure who coined the term “cis” or “cisgender”
- in chemistry, on same side
- bonds are aligned like gender aligned to sex at birth
- has been taken up by health care.
- not sure who coined the term “cis” or “cisgender”
- in chemistry, on same side
- bonds are aligned like gender aligned to sex at birth
- has been taken up by health care.
- some groups object to using it, starts to say why she thinks it’s offensive to those groups
BO objects
KB moves on
ES
- cis used in English speaking world
- not sure if used in Saudi Arabia
- says yes, did research in Saudi but on schools
BO objects
KB moves on
ES
- cis used in English speaking world
- not sure if used in Saudi Arabia
- says yes, did research in Saudi but on schools
- says there are diverse gender ids in Saudi
- about graphic in Trans Youth study about 15year old needing $ for hormones, says clinical opinions vary if 15 too young for cross sex hormones.
- about graphic in Trans Youth study about 15year old needing $ for hormones, says clinical opinions vary if 15 too young for cross sex hormones.
- opinion on timing takes into account individual assessment, treatment plan and jurisdictional law
- yes, Amy is opposed to cis girls getting puberty blockers/ hormones
KB ask ES about a paper re children’s ability to consent to puberty blockers
tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.108…
- yes, Amy is opposed to cis girls getting puberty blockers/ hormones
KB ask ES about a paper re children’s ability to consent to puberty blockers
tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.108…
ES
- says she’s not a licensed bioethicist. Has heard about the Keira Bell case though
- agrees transition sex ratio has shifted toward girls
- says not an endocrinologist but side effects of puberty blockers are listed as are side effects of other drugs
- says she’s not a licensed bioethicist. Has heard about the Keira Bell case though
- agrees transition sex ratio has shifted toward girls
- says not an endocrinologist but side effects of puberty blockers are listed as are side effects of other drugs
- WPATH Standards of Care can be relied upon
- won’t comment further as not her area of care, not sure if paper is relevant in BC
Paper is marked as exhibit. Next KB shows paper/article by Catholic Medical Association.
- won’t comment further as not her area of care, not sure if paper is relevant in BC
Paper is marked as exhibit. Next KB shows paper/article by Catholic Medical Association.
Sorry, can’t find the link.
Suffice to say it expresses doubts about gender affirmation in health care
Discussion about whether this paper is authoritative, reflects best standards of care, current practice and belief in Catholic care.
Suffice to say it expresses doubts about gender affirmation in health care
Discussion about whether this paper is authoritative, reflects best standards of care, current practice and belief in Catholic care.
AS
- best care is gender affirming care
- best care is secular care
Going to break here. Will complete Day 2 on this thread and start new thread for Day 3, which was a doozy. ✌️
- best care is gender affirming care
- best care is secular care
Going to break here. Will complete Day 2 on this thread and start new thread for Day 3, which was a doozy. ✌️
AS
- there’s a broad array of gender affirming care
- clinical care including mental health and endocrine care
- support and education for families
- support for social transition
- help people achieve “ phenotypical congruence”
- bast practice in Canada is gender affirming
- there’s a broad array of gender affirming care
- clinical care including mental health and endocrine care
- support and education for families
- support for social transition
- help people achieve “ phenotypical congruence”
- bast practice in Canada is gender affirming
- best practice in Canada is secular
-,doesn’t know much about lupon, a puberty blocker
- may be a recommendation of WPATH but not 8nvolved
KB shows ES the Finnish Study. My link is an unofficial translation.
segm.org/sites/default/…
-,doesn’t know much about lupon, a puberty blocker
- may be a recommendation of WPATH but not 8nvolved
KB shows ES the Finnish Study. My link is an unofficial translation.
segm.org/sites/default/…
ES
- that’s right…for Finland
- yes, more girls worldwide but variable
- yes, increase in girls in Vancouver
- says estimates from clinical care are highly biased as must make their way into care
- may not have been able to access care as easily as boys in past
- that’s right…for Finland
- yes, more girls worldwide but variable
- yes, increase in girls in Vancouver
- says estimates from clinical care are highly biased as must make their way into care
- may not have been able to access care as easily as boys in past
- based on six minute presentation at WPATH in Montreal, they recommend assessment, physical assessment, expressed goals, support of family
- social transition, psych referral, puberty blockers, hormones and then surgery
- remove breasts, do phalloplasty and a hysterectomy
- social transition, psych referral, puberty blockers, hormones and then surgery
- remove breasts, do phalloplasty and a hysterectomy
- largely irreversible though some may get pregnant even on cross hormones
- puberty blockers at Tanner stage 2 (age 8 up to age 12)
BO objects when KB asks ES if puberty blockers have permanent side effects.
KB hopes to finish cross today.
- puberty blockers at Tanner stage 2 (age 8 up to age 12)
BO objects when KB asks ES if puberty blockers have permanent side effects.
KB hopes to finish cross today.
KB suggests debate appropriate re gender affirming care globally.
ES
- not much debate
- WPATH has long process of clinical research
- the differing opinions are not from experts, experts all agree
ES
- not much debate
- WPATH has long process of clinical research
- the differing opinions are not from experts, experts all agree
ES
- not authoritative as opposed to WPATH
- from the US, BC has different rules for informed consent
- BC has the Infants Act, clinicians seek mature consent
Marked as an exhibit
ES
- higher rates of depression, suicide in trans both morbid conditions and caused by stigma
- not authoritative as opposed to WPATH
- from the US, BC has different rules for informed consent
- BC has the Infants Act, clinicians seek mature consent
Marked as an exhibit
ES
- higher rates of depression, suicide in trans both morbid conditions and caused by stigma
KB shows a letter to Journal of Sexual Archives
ES says it’s criticizing methodology.
Admitted as exhibit
KB says letter mentions Canadian study of 139 boys, 63% met criteria for dysphoria and around 80% desisted.
ES say can’t speak to study.
ES says it’s criticizing methodology.
Admitted as exhibit
KB says letter mentions Canadian study of 139 boys, 63% met criteria for dysphoria and around 80% desisted.
ES say can’t speak to study.
KB asks if there’s a new nursing textbook every year
ES says no
KB reads some of Amy’s many continuing education achievements
AS can’t say if those course were mandatory (*they weren’t ) & is also reluctant to say that Amy must be well educated, not 100% sure but probably.
ES says no
KB reads some of Amy’s many continuing education achievements
AS can’t say if those course were mandatory (*they weren’t ) & is also reluctant to say that Amy must be well educated, not 100% sure but probably.
KB talks about the anti conversion therapy bill. Asks if it has had a chilling effect on provision of psychological therapy.
ES says no, always explore gender and gender ID
KB refers ES to Reflections on a Clinicians Role as below.
researchgate.net/publication/35…
ES says no, always explore gender and gender ID
KB refers ES to Reflections on a Clinicians Role as below.
researchgate.net/publication/35…
ES
- not sure if she can say there’s been a chilling effect
- reasonable critiques of Turban
- WPATH says assessment, not psychotherapy
KB asks about social@justice and activism
ES
- not sure if activism or social justice to raise money for Vancouver Rape Relief
- not sure if she can say there’s been a chilling effect
- reasonable critiques of Turban
- WPATH says assessment, not psychotherapy
KB asks about social@justice and activism
ES
- not sure if activism or social justice to raise money for Vancouver Rape Relief
- depends on the services they offer
- their COV funding was dropped
- may be funding a discriminatory group.
* Note - ES did ALOT of hemming and hawing here.
- may be supporting health equity to volunteer wit( Elizabeth Fry
Since volunteering within justice system.
- their COV funding was dropped
- may be funding a discriminatory group.
* Note - ES did ALOT of hemming and hawing here.
- may be supporting health equity to volunteer wit( Elizabeth Fry
Since volunteering within justice system.
Last but not least, ES, the Director of the BC Nursing School and expert witness on harms to trans people in the health care system has heard of but hasn’t read the Cass Report.
*Note - I have. 🙃
cass.independent-review.uk
*Note - I have. 🙃
cass.independent-review.uk
Cross is over. BO returns to do his redirect. Redirect can only be about things that have come up during cross that he could not have reasonably foreseen.
BO - ES, have you changed your opinion or want to change written report after being cross examined?
BO - ES, have you changed your opinion or want to change written report after being cross examined?
KB objects, says question allows BO to re-examine ES in an unfair way.
Panel will allow BO’s question. ES say no, has not changed opinion but would fine turn definition of Nurse Educator.
Panel will allow BO’s question. ES say no, has not changed opinion but would fine turn definition of Nurse Educator.
Panel has request for College. Out of all the evidence they submitted of Amy’s social media, there is too much information, please drill down to tweets and/or words they are most concerned with - what tweets or words do they say cross the line.
It is decided that Day 3 will start at 9AM, not 10.
@LDBildy (Amy’s counsel) says she will have a legal argument to make and request Panel’s position argument on that argument.
BO will not be present. Panel says “very good, so noted”.
@LDBildy (Amy’s counsel) says she will have a legal argument to make and request Panel’s position argument on that argument.
BO will not be present. Panel says “very good, so noted”.
Won’t be able to tweet Day 3 for a couple of days as will be travelling home. It’s a doozy!
Greta Bauer, the College’s next expert, will talk very very fast and say there are more than two sexes. bf will talk very very slowly and once while she doesn’t know her mike is on.
Greta Bauer, the College’s next expert, will talk very very fast and say there are more than two sexes. bf will talk very very slowly and once while she doesn’t know her mike is on.
The College will to preemptively disqualify Amy’s witnesses and improperly split their case by suggesting they are allowed to conduct a redirect on things that they could have reasonably seen before cross.
We know that they could have reasonably seen it before cross by Amy’s team, because they announced it!
Also it became clear that 3 days for College side would not be enough so expect some rescheduling.
Ciao for now all. ✌️
#IStandWithAmyHamm #nurseswillspeak #womenwillspeak
Also it became clear that 3 days for College side would not be enough so expect some rescheduling.
Ciao for now all. ✌️
#IStandWithAmyHamm #nurseswillspeak #womenwillspeak
• • •
Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to
force a refresh
