Thread by @Scot_Feminists

10mins in to the initial debate on the Gender Recognition Reform Bill & it's already proving to be quite testy. @JoeFitzSNP is refusing to make way for others to speak.
scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meetin…

Going to have to.comment on Joe's pink shirt /blue and yellow tie combo. Have a thought for the viewers Joe

He's now basically said that despite women and women with a faith raising objections, he's happy that his Bill won't be an issue. Without explaining how a female Muslim will be able to ensure she is not in a space with, or receiving a service from, a male.

Joe expresses regret that the Bill couldn't cover non-binary people. Expect that to follow on very soon.
Rachel Hamilton trying to pin down @ShonaRobison on whether obtaining a GRC changes sex under the Equality Act 2010...we wait for an answer

Rachel Hamilton conveniently dropping in that in 2 weeks time @forwomen and @ScotGovJustice will be in court to discuss what the acquisition of Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) means in relation to legal sex

Ruth McGuire asks if the committee obtained a definition of what "living as an acquired gender" means. The answer is NO! It's not defined so can't be proven to be fraudulent.

Rachel explaining that right now it would be difficult for a GRC to be obtained fraudulently under the current scheme, not true of the proposal in the GRR Bill (no definitions, no medical diagnosis, only 3 months "living as acquired gender", easily abused

Pam Duncan-Glancy pointing out that she did ask about the Cass Review, but Rachel Hamilton and Pam Gosal had gone further by requesting GRR Bill was delayed until Cass Review was completed and assessed.

Social transition is not a neutral undertaking (as per Cass Review).
Cross border impact of Scotland's Bill.
Impact on children
Impact on Equality Act

Pam Duncan-Glancy: "Trans rights are human rights". We can see where this is going then.

Sue Webber asks if Labour agrees with Johann Lamont about concerns about impact of Bill on women and children. Pam says the impact on women & children will be done as the Bill is implemented. Tad late there Pam, too late.

Call us cynics but Pam's attempt at reassurance that the protection of the Equality Act to women & children is not so believable when she starts with trans rights are human rights.
Pam stating she believes a GRC changes the legal sex of the holder in ALL areas 👀

Alex Cole-Hamilton refers to those currently being harmed by the Gender Recognition Act. WHO IS BEING HARMED ALEX?
Now claiming all parties have self ID in their manifestos. That, Alex, is an outright lie.

Reform of an admin process is not the same as the self identification of sex by anyone.
Worth noting that @scotlibdems did not engage with any women's groups who had concerns about this Bill.

Now claims he is dealing with women's spaces, despite not having spoken to us. Now intentionally forgetting that a trans identifying male remains a male, with male pattern offending and risks to.women and children.

Ruth McGuire asking how many applicants are rejected from getting a GRC under the current scheme and why. Excellent question Ruth, we await the answer.
Fulton McGregor.claiming that "living as your acquired gender" has a legal definition but who knows what or where.

Fulton now claiming other countries have implemented self ID with no issues. We listened to the evidence Fulton, you know that is the not the case. You were told no-one is collecting the info. You were told that Ireland had no female sex offenders until self ID was brought in

But you were told they now have 3 "female" sex offenders.

Jamie Greene offering a more nuanced summary of his opinion of the Bill. He says that the language used against the Bill is similar to that used against a lowering of age of consent and gay rights. But also points out what 16yr olds can't do (tattoo, fight, drink).

Needs to be an evidence-based decision. And trying to explain some of the loopholes in additional guidance is not sufficient, the Bill must be robust and clear.

Jamie can offer these comments because his party is not whipped on how to vote. His is the only party that is not whipped (Tories), all the rest have been told to vote for this Bill. Jamie will vote for this Bill.

Karen Adams offering to fill on all the gaps that Jamie Greene highlighted. Having sat through the witness hearings, we struggle to believe that.
Karen now telling us yrans people are some of the most vilified in the country.
Really, Karen? Really?

Aw, Karen went to the trans Community and asked about their lived experience. Remind us, did she approach any women's groups? Just 1?
Er...no.

Getting a long waffly lecture from Paul O'Kane on how to #BeKind. How we must communicate, be nice, not call names - just as long as women are entitled to call a male a male, Paul. That's stating facts.

Jogn Mason stating he knows there are just 2 sexes and your sex is observed prior to birth, and can't change, ever.
Now discussing women's rights, how this Bill will blur protections for women. 92% of those prosecuted for domestic violence are male. The issue is males.

John Mason, rather. He will be voting against Bill.
Maggie Chapman now, dear god.
She is speaking as if this is Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches" speech. The GRC is already available, Maggie. You know that right?

She refers about some terrible shy trans people who can now crawl out of the shadow, with blinking eyes, ready to claim their GRC now that all gatekeeping and safeguarding has been removed. She uses the word cis, which she knows the Parliament has been asked not to use

Maggie has a wider, brighter new rainbow lanyard just for the occasion. Maggie calls for the 3 month "living as acquired gender" period to be.removed. Might as well just have adrive-thru GRC process eh Maggie? In fact, give us.all GRC by default, it will save a lot of admin

Maggie claims, again, that all this bill does is change admin. Despite removing medical diagnosis and thereby allowing ANYONE to change their legal sex. That is not just admin, Maggie.

And breathe. Tess White now daring to say the taboo word -woman. Even worse, she invoked JK Rowling. 😵
Good woman. Lovely mint jacket I note ❤️

Tess providing some balance to Maggie, pointing the issues with the Bill, the.lack of consultation with non-gov funded women's groups, the lack of definitions (you can't prove a false declaration), cross border issues for GRC holders in England &Wales

Tess is unconvinced that this Bill will not undermine safety for women and children. Bill is a sticking plaster because the removal of medical diagnosis removes clinical support for those with distress.

Tess mentions the English children's gender identity clinic is to be closed in April (and we know from today's Telegraph Scotland's equivalent is no better). Tess will be voting against Bill

Michael Marra offering brief history of trans people, also that sex matters. Karen Adams takes a very brave step of asking about intersex people (she thinks they are a 3rd sex, it is not, clamour from the chamber, please don't tell us our MSPs think there is 3rd sex???)

Michael, thankfully, is very clear that we are all only male or female, regardless of medical disorders.
Makes clear the risk to women is from men, that the sex protections in Equality Act are key. Labour will put forward amendments in Stage 2.
Bill has few protections

In place to prevent abuse. Suggests a counter signature, or from a GP like passports.

Michael says ScotGov has.made poor job of justifying reduction of age from 18 to 16. Parliament's job need to balance rights of all. Unattended this legislation will fail the FM's test of balance. Long journey to go.

Emma Roddick : trans rights are human rights and as a.woman she is not threatened by the Bill. That's nice Emma but IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU. Doesn't believe there should be a "living as acquired gender" process. Sk another proponent of the drive-thru GRC process.

Sue Webber asks if Roddick agrees with ScotGov equality impact assessment referring to mental health support for young people. Emma does. But also wants to rush through Bill. Claims debate hasn't been respectful. Claims MSPs in chamber have misgendered trans people.

She claims MSPs have been hateful. Wanted to include non-binary people and mentions her NB friends.

Emma wants this.Bill for her trans constituent (but no mention of her female ones).

Jackie Baillie (remember Labour whipping their MSPs to support this Bill!). It is right to debate and challenge. Bill is complex. Inevitably challenge in courts. Gov has responsibility to.lead.but also take country with them.
She supports general principles for the Bill

Name calling not helpful. Dismissals not helpful.
Jackson Carlaw is going to abstain on Bill. Asks if an assurance from Cab Secretary for discussion will help.
Equality Act, points out that Scot.Gov.will soon be in court to argue that a GRC will change

Legal sex for all cases. Women need clarity as it would.remove any single sex spaces and services.
Removal of medical diagnosis is good but need clarification of process
Reduction.of age - uncertainty but welcomes discussion

Cass Review should inform Sandyford processes, not complete until end of 2023 but Scottish children deserve the best treatment.

Will support Bill at stage 1 but need to address concerns or support will not continue.
Now Pam Gosal. Thanks those that have contacted her. Doesn't doubt good intentions of those voting for Bill but says.Bill is ill-thought, ill-considered and unpredictable, specifically for

Women, children, those with a faith. They deserve time to consider without being called a transphobe.
Removal of medical diagnosis, reduction of age, removal of.GRC.panel leaves a flimsy process. She has had constituents contact her with gender

confusion and they asked her to vote against the Bill so they retain the clinical support they need.
We have seem Pam pay keen attention during the hearings, developing her opinions. She has clearly formalised them now. She is very clear about the rights of women of faith

And how they will self exclude if they cannot access single-sex spaces. Comes back to whether a GRC would prevent the ability to exclude males in these situations, health care for an elderly.woman needing female only support

Pam will be voting against Bill and urges other MSPs to do same.
Shona Rovison is back up to finish.

Implies not all debate has been respectful - not sure who that was aimed at. Perhaps the factual statement that there are only 2 sexes and even intersex people are male or female?

Robison giving assurance she will work to achieve consensus, will work on constructive amendments.
Perception that Equality Act is challenged despite being reserved. Not answering if GRC changes legal sex yet claims single-sex exemptions remain. Big gap here

Robison refuses to comment on live court case but agrees with EHRC on their interpretation of a GRC (that give holder all rights of the acquired sex. Sounds like a roundabout way of saying she agrees that a male with a GRC becomes female.in all aspects 👀)

She will monitor Cass Review but that is independent from this Bill.
Rachel Hamilton points out that there is no commitment to reduce waiting list and services improved. Robison.says work already underway (we refer you to today's Telegraph on Sandyford.

Says approx 0.5m trans people in UK but only 6k have GRC and this is a problem, apparently. But why?

Robison speaks as a Mum of teenage daughter, her fear for daughter is of men not trans people (despite there being an overlap between the two).

She wants to build maximum consensus to make.Bill the best (wonder why she was forced to talk to women's groups after being embarrassed in the press then?)

Vote imminent

Vote results for GRR Bill
For : 88
Against: 33
Abstain 5
#NoToSelfID