Thread by @Richard_Autism

Reflecting on this thread & a concern-fear of mine; "PDA Profile of ASD" & "Profound Autism" advocates working together, or each group co-opting the other's proposed autism subgroup.

https://twitter.com/Richard_Autism/status/1631782495782948865

Reflecting on this. I think there are a some of reasons why this fear maybe irrational.
- How both groups are portraying autism seems contradictory/ incompatible.
- "PDA Profile of ASD" relies on PDA being autism.
- Many autistic persons seem happy PDA being autism.

As set out in the previous thread & is recognised elsewhere in critique of "Profound Autism", it basically relies upon old fashioned linear functioning spectrum of autism.

https://twitter.com/Richard_Autism/status/1631783515434938368

Previous tweet contains a link to an article advocating "Profound Autism", & what seems to be a false binary of LFA - HFA. With "Profound Autism" equivalent to LFA & non-disabled Aspergers equivalent to HFA.

https://twitter.com/Richard_Autism/status/1631785254062116864

As the below images shows, "PDA Profile of ASD" seems to perpendicular to LFA-HFA spectrum. This matters, PDA is meant to be highly impairing/ disabling to people who have high intelligence/ "cognitively able", which contradicts "Profound Autism" portrayal of autism.

There is merit to this outlook, as most PDA research & discourse focuses on autistic persons, especially children who often be diagnosed with Asperger's PDD-NOS equivalents. This has been a thing going back to even Newson's research.

I cannot find where I have discussed the previous point before on twitter except here:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1600078…

Below is Newson's last diagram from Newson et al 2003, p599. It compares PDA to Asperger's Syndrome & Autistic Disorder. PDA is placed directly opposite Asperger's, while Autistic Disorder is placed directly opposite to Specific Language Impairments.

If necessary, I can dig out quotes noting the populations of autistic persons where PDA is generally diagnosed in, like below:
…emandavoidancecom.files.wordpress.com/2020/08/01-aug…

"Profound Autism", depending on who you ask, is an autism subgroup by referring to autistic persons with intellectual disability &/ or language impairment:
thelancet.com/journals/lance…

"A comprehensive outlook that acknowledges impairments, capabilities, co-occurring conditions, and environmental factors would be useful for identifying subgroups of individuals..."
Waizbard-Bartov et al 2023, Abstract.

Link to Waizbard-Bartov et al 2023, is below.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/au…

Waizbard-Bartov et al 2023 has a different definition for "Profound Autism" versus Lancet Autism Commission report. The point is the co-occurring difficulties being used to create autism subgroups, as autism itself cannot be successfully divided.

This feeds into second reason why I think "PDA Profile of ASD" is incompatible with "Profound Autism", "PDA Profile of ASD" has an axiom of:
PDA features = autism features.
"PDA Profile of ASD" advocates argue PDA do not accept PDA features are non-autism features.

Many of you will be aware I am highly critical of assumption PDA features = Autism features & the implications of this.

Point is "PDA Profile of ASD" supporters are working with a different axiom to subgrouping autism, compared to "Profound Autism" supporters!

https://twitter.com/Richard_Autism/status/1632121672051335170

An example of the problems I think assuming PDA features = autism features cause, can be found in the below thought experiment:
researchgate.net/publication/36…

Third & final reason why "PDA Profile of ASD" is incompatible with "Profound Autism", is that autistic persons, seem to have different views/ reactions to both constructs.

Many-most autistic persons seem to be taking a strong stance against "Profound Autism". While for "PDA Profile of ASD", the reaction is more divided, but there is a sizeable number of autistic persons supporting "PDA Profile of ASD".

Why does this matter to "Profound Autism" supporters?
"Profound Autism" supporters are attacking autistic persons, seemingly trying to discredit us & our views.

I discuss this issue here & some of the responses to these attacks against autistic advocacy:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1630880…

If as it seems that "Profound Autism" advocates are deliberately attempting to silence autistic criticism of "Profound Autism" & paint us as the "bad guys", then adopting "PDA Profile of ASD" with its many social model neurodiversity supporters, is going to undermine that agenda.

Point is if social model neurodiversity supporters are the bad guys, one if not unlikely to ally/ co-opt a notion, like "PDA Profile of ASD", which many social model neurodiversity supporting autistics, seem to support; or vice versa. It would make people look silly.

Despite these reasons are good reasons for "PDA Profile of ASD" supporters & "Profound Autism" supporters to work together/ co-opt each others terms.
Fundamentally, both groups are trying to make autism subgroups...

Essentially trying to make autism subgroups for the same reasons, as discussed here:
researchgate.net/publication/35…

The discourse & advocacy efforts of both "Profound Autism" & "PDA Profile of ASD" seem to be highly similar, as I point out in the below thread:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1603064…

Also, "Profound Autism" advocates will likely realise that they can attempt to control autistic persons better if they pathologise our self-agency using "PDA Profile of ASD"...

I will end with saying that much of the problems & critique of "Profound Autism", also seems to have been made about "PDA Profile of ASD". Which is useful & good to know.

On that note. I am ending the thread.

@threadreaderapp Please can you unroll?

Thank you in advance.