Thread by @barandbench

Same-sex marriage: LIVE UPDATES from Supreme Court [Day 7]

#SupremeCourtofIndia #SameGenderMarriage

barandbench.com/news/litigatio…

Lawyers gather

Sr Adv AM Singhvi on seeing SG Mehta and AG R Venkataramani present says: this is not a double engine sarkaar it is double barrel sarkaar

SG Mehta: I am here Mr Singhvi

Singhvi mutes mic

Judges to assemble shortly

#SupremeCourtofIndia #SameGenderMarriage

#BREAKING SG: Issue was some genuine human concerns and discussion was if something can be done administratively. Govt is positive. This would need coordination by different ministries. A committee headed by cabinet secretary will be formed and suggestions given by the… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: The petitioners can submit suggestions between today and next hearing so that they can apply their mind as well to it #SupremeCourtofIndia

CJI: What we can also do is.. Both AG, you yourself, Ms Bhati can meet with petitioner lawyers.. can frame issues..

SG: We will host them yes.. but we would not have ready solutions..it is with the govt

Justice R Bhat: he may say administrative ing and administrative issue is… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Bhat: sometimes beginnings are small

SG: Sometimes change of law will need recognition of a relationship and that we will have to see

CJI: SG accepts that people have right to cohabit and it is a social reality and based on that there may be some incidents like right to… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Guruswamy: for something as pension, insurance etc only accrues in a marriage not in the relationship of a caregiver..

SG: If govt says that nomination for PF could be for the spouse or anyone else nominated by the individual

Justice Kaul: this is without prejudice to… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: we are happy to divide it and this will be a low hanging fruit and everyone will be happy.. but the higher fruit will be your order

CJI: The conceptual domain requires legislative changes and it is completely beyond our domain. So we have to see how we frame the conceptual doctrine. Somethings can be done administratively, something can be changed by subordinate legislation, and the third is recognition for… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Bhat: as you said this case is part of a series. So suppose there is a gain in this case.. you have to say do you want to build upon this for future course of action .. etc..

Sr Adv Saurabh Kirpal: the consensus between the community is that they want to get married..… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Kirpal: we understand we cannot get everything.. we can submit a draft on what can be given.. how section 4 recognition of marriage can be given... and rights that flow..

SG: That is legislative

Sr Adv Menaka Guruswamy: i speak at a lot and especially at small towns.; and… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI DY Chandrachud: as a constitutional court we have an issue... if we go by what young people feel as constitutional court then we have to go by what others feel.. that is why we have to go with what constitution is and what is constitutional morality.. if we entertain this… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice R Bhat: just think of what will you get if the discussion move aheads.. there will be some quietus now and your battle for the equality will always remain.. but this will not the end of the road.. we are not prejudging it. #SupremeCourtofIndia

SG reads a note before the bench: statutory law of any country does not regulate all human relationships.. sans legitimate state interest.. legislation have kept full host of human relationships out of state purview as state has no business to recognising such relationship unless… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

SG: Suppose someone garlands each other in a marriage.. they are married. but can they have a right that legislature recognises this marriage as well. they cannot. #surpremecourt

CJI: Conceptually there is difficulty in accepting this.. they are saying that by not recognising same sex marriage, the govt is acting in a discriminatory way and thus there is discrimination theory here

SG: There is a reasonable classification...

CJI: yes you have said that… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

SG Mehta: Please see some of the judgments of the European courts which are illuminating:

#samesexmarriage

SG Mehta concludes

Attorney General for India: I have shared two notes by mail

#samesexmarriage

SG: Today Mr Sibal is a little under the weather. Please pardon his absence

AG: Howsoever enlightened we are on the subject and howesoever neutral we are..if we want practical outcomes.. how does the court decide a case like this... the court should not fundamentally alter the basic text of the statute in this case.. and see if a solution can be arrived… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

AG: special marriage act is only a law in relation to the institution of marriage and does not create the institution of marriage itself.. thus it is not a discriminatory legislation

CJI: you have SMA was supposed to be special law for heterosexual form of relationships and that same sex law was never intended to be a part of this and that this will lead to a host of legislative changes #samesexmarriage

AG: a hidden provision cannot be retrieved if it was never present there and similarly there is no question of same sex relation under special marriage act... it has to be looked at from this prism... something can be read into a statute only if there was ever an intention to… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Sr Adv Rakesh Dwivedi: these are omnibus petitions seeking to equate all these relationships with heterosexual marriages and make drastic amendments to the Special marriage act. Now question is there a fundamental right to marriage.. fundamental right to recognition of marriage… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: How is dignity of the heterosexual marriage at stake?

Justice Bhat: you are saying using the word spouse diminishes the meaning of husband and wife

Dwivedi: we say I take you as a husband and take you as a wife... how can we say i take you as my spouse

CJI: That is not… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: When I say take you as my spouse...it means i take you as my spouse who is my wife...

Dwivedi: that is the not the essence

Justice Narasimha: what is the essence?

Dwivedi: while granting dignity you cannot inflict indignity... the act was made for an union between… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI : The existence of same couple has not been imported from somewhere else and it is a part of the society...

Dwivedi: they were there.. they had dignity and respect.. but they never demanded marriage.. marriage is not about dignity... people who are widows etc are not that… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Dwivedi: this is a case which requires social accomodation and the parliament is in the position to decide how to take the step, when to take the next step and what is the road ahead. whole social fabric will break apart if things are thrusted upon by this court. we have to take… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Dwivedi: one argument was a person can choose their role.. by adjudication will this court create new offences... what happens to article 20 that offence cam be created only by law.. so there is no way man and wife is substituted with spouse. and there is no way to do that

CJI: Suppose there is a same sex couple and they are in a relationship and they marry a person from another sex. Like 2 men in a relationship and one of them marries a woman then there will be no bigamy. This will be applicable to a trans person as well.. #samesexmarriage

CJI: so you say to take care of myriad situations the parliament must deal with it.. we get it

Dwivedi: this adjudication is happening without states my lord... #Supremecourtofindia

Sr Adv Dwivedi: pouring legislative intent at the mere asking will be doing something which Justice Cardozo had warned us against.. #samesexmarriage

Sr Adv Dwivedi: heterosexuals will not object will special marriage is struck down.. our marriage does not depend on it..

Justice Bhat: but what about people of different faith..

Dwivedi: Islam has its own law

Justice Bhat: we are talking of different religion..… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: Please finish your rejoinder by next Wednesday.... we intend to finish hearings then.

#samesexmarriagecase