Thread by @Womans_Place_UK

Welcome to everyone who has joined us for our webinar, A Woman's Place is in conversation: challenging men's violence against women. We will be using the hashtag #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Introductions now being made by @K_IngalaSmith. She is joined by Joan Smith @polblonde, author of Misogynies, Pragna Patel founding member of Southall Black Sisters @SBSisters and Afsana Lachaux @afsanalachaux, activist winner of @EmmaHPrize

@K_IngalaSmith, in the chair, is CEO of @nia_endingVAWG and is a founder of @CountDeadWomen which has developed into @FemicideCensus #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Kicking off, Karen speaking about inspiration of @SBSisters campaigning in support of Kiranjit Ahluwalia, and demonstration at Royal Court of Justice, mix of activism and service provision #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

One of first feminist non-fiction books Karen read was @polblonde Misogynies, which gave her language to understand and speak about men's violence.

Turning now to the inspiration of @afsanalachaux, in her current fight for justice and access to her son.

Pragna Patel speaking of the inspiration and important of @CountDeadWomen. But when talking about inspiration Pragna says impossible to single out any individual. Speaking of the power of women collectively, in all fields, not just in feminist fields. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Setting up @SBSisters was about creating a political home, with activism at the heart, and drawing on many different influences. The work against male violence against women has benefited from work on human rights and social inequalities. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

It would be wrong to single out any individual. We weave together so many contributions in a political tapestry #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

@afsanalachaux what got her into activism was in the early 90s there was a particularly dangerous situation for Asian women. Her inspiration is the many unsung women, who have overcome adversity. The unheard women who are tackling male violence. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Joan Smith "I don't remember a time when I wasn't a feminist." Her father always said she could do anything, even though she was girl and working class. She read voraciously. Germaine Greer Female Eunuch, Kate Millett Sexual Politics. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Virago published book by Amrit Wilson which was inspirational. and inspirited by history, Olympe de Gouges writer of Declaration of the Rights of Woman and of the Female Citizen in French Revolution. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Karen talking about being economic class conscious before being sex class conscious. First learned about feminism in sociology A level. Importance of experience of male violence going up and then the awareness of Peter Sutcliffe murders. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Joan Smith now talking about the experience as a journalist working at time of Sutcliffe murders. Shocked by the assumptions and sexism of the police. That was introduction to male violence against women #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

When Sunday Times published critique of the police investigation, police threatened use of Official Act against the paper. Interviewed three survivors and was haunted by it. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Pragna talking about earliest memory - which was of a man attempting to kill a woman. At the age of three remembers commotion on street, in Kenya where she grew up. A crowd had gathered, in the middle of the crowd an Asian man holding a machete over a woman. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Nobody explained what had happened. The memory receded but then later came flooding back. An act of violence in which the entire community was complicit. The focus on complicity with violence that is committed. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Pragna talking of working class background and strength of mother working in factories, who fought battles every day in workplace. She was of the generation of the Grunwick strikers. Pragna influenced by her tenacity, and by structural nature of inequality. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Describes family gatherings with separation of men and women - men talking politics and women cooking. Set up @SBSisters to talk about women's rights - modelled on law centres - for advice and advocacy. Did not know the focus would be men's violence. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Very quickly after setting up, the experiences women came forward with were about gender-based violence. Talking about early cases and miscarriages of justice taken up by @SBSisters #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Recalls case of Krishna Sharma who was found hanged at home - @SBSisters protested about her case "They say it's suicide, we say it's murder" #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Afsana Lachaux describes conservative background, but father who believed girls should achieve as much as boys. Afsana volunteered for a refuge in her twenties. Recalls helping woman whose husband was stalking her and being confronted by husband. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

The man punched her in the face because Afsana wouldn't reveal location of his wife. Describes her naivety in thinking that this would mean the woman would not go back to her husband. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Afsana found herself in 2011, with marriage broken down and living in Dubai. Locked out of family home with 12 month old baby. No support systems and in country with Islamic law and no safeguards for women. She sought advice of British Embassy, found no help. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Divorced in a Dubai court, with order for her three year old son Louis to be removed from her care. Legal battle since coming back to UK has been to get the UK courts to reunite her with her son. Under sharia law Afsana would not have seen son until 18 years. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

A British judge did not believe that Afsana had been victim of abuse because she didn't look like a victim - sophisticated, intelligent woman. Judge did not take account of fact that she was thrown out of house - who concurred with Dubai courts #WPUKagainstMVAWG

French court, on same set of facts, judged that the Dubai court was discriminatory. (Afsana's ex-husband is French). There are many reports of inequalities of UAE legal system. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Left with nearly £100k legal fees. It is very rare to get this size of financial penalty in this kind of case, judge had discretion. She is only permitted six hours annually with her son. Afsana may lose her home. - describes effects on mental health. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Please donate to crowd funder to support her uk.gofundme.com/f/help-afsana-… #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Pragna now talking about Afsana's strength. Talking about the importance of witness and solidarity. Raises questions - is the law a site for feminist resistance, or a place where women are done over. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

We use law, but law is also a site of power - of patriarchy, of racial injustice, of economic power. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Afsana's case and others like it, raises question of how far can we get with the law unless we have political movements. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG.

It raises questions about the rise of fundamentalism. The willingness of a British court to side with Dubai court and sharia laws, against ruling of the French court. This is reinvigorating patriarchy. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

We are located in neoliberal capitalist framework which outsources justice, and which allows fundamentalists to infiltrate - the law, education. Where can women go? We go to media, we try to amplify voices. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

Talking about use of injunctions and defamation being used to shut up voices of women. Women who go to media directly because of inadequacy of law. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG.

Joan saying how difficult it is to listen to Afsana's experience. Chairing violence against women and girls board in GLA. Intervening in board: men who commit terrorism have histories of violence in the family, against women and girl, against animals. #WPUKAgainstMVAWG

No one else looking at issue, so took on research of backgrounds of terrorist offenders - Home Grown: How Domestic Violence Turns Men Into Terrorists. But men who work on terrorism don't see connection, don't see terrorist acts as male violence. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

They still don't see it as male violence. Separation of 'political' violence and MVAWG. The Manchester bomber Salman Abedi had history of violence - punched Muslim girl wearing short skirt, age 17. Dealt with by restorative justice - so no criminal record. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

At the heart of it for Joan is misogyny - why we don't see misogyny as a warning sign? #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Karen now bringing together the themes of misogyny in law, education, media - that it is all patriarchy - how do we talk about complicity in male violence. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Joan: when she wrote misogynies she was optimistic. Feels that things are in fact getting worse. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Pragna: There is a danger in saying 'it's all patriarchal'. It is, but it needs to be unpicked and given intersectional lens. There is disproportionate impact on some women. Without that, we don't address context. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

gives example of work of SBS with women on fringes of extremist activity or children getting caught up in extremist activity, and in working with them find backgrounds of domestic abuse. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

But wants also to resist too direct a connection between domestic terrorism and political terrorism. There's an ideological thread - the need to address fundamentalist ideology behind terrorism has not been tackled. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

One has to be very careful about the way in which the state co-opts violence against women into the securitisation agenda. We have to do this work without being co-opted by the state. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Issues of FGM, forced marriage are used to justify anti-immigration agenda, surveillance agenda takes over. And migrant women bear the biggest burden of this. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Karen raises whether CEDAW is a way to address fundamentalism.

Conversation has been so rich that the questions have not been addressed. Afsana expressing thanks for the support she has received in the messages during the talk.

Karen asks is there any cause for optimism?

Afsana: this is about accountability - we have to hold the state institutions to account. When she looks at numbers of women affected by violence, coercive control - never taken into account. We must strengthen civil society. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Joan: MVAWG is not political issue in conventional sense. In canvassing for Labour, nobody has ever raised MVAWG on doorstep. Why is that? Somehow criminal justice system, MVAWG is not complained about. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

How do we break through silence as MVAWG as a political issue. How do we make it something that MPs and candidates are forced to talk about. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Pragna: We have to be optimistic. The fact that there are women in their thousands in Poland against rollback of reproductive rights. Around the world - India, Argentina... this tells us there is power in women coming together. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

We have to carry on. We have to use whatever space we have to continue raising our issues & seeking accountability. There is a growing consensus that MVAWG is not acceptable - we are facing a backlash. In a paradoxical way, the backlash is part of our victory. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Karen: As feminists we are stuck between being revolutionaries and reformists. We want the revolution. But without reform we also leave lots of women behind.

Ends with quote from Angela Davies. "You have to act as if it were possible to radically transform the world. And you have to do it all the time." #WPUKagainstMVAWG

Please donate to the crowd funder for @afsana uk.gofundme.com/f/help-afsana-…

and/or donate to the brilliant organisations in the UK @nia_endingVAWG @SBSisters @centreWJ

We are also recommending donations to @VanRapeRelief

Thank you all for joining us in this period where we cannot meet in large gatherings in person. It is great to meet online. Thank you to our panel Joan Smith @polblonde, Pragna Patel @SBSisters, Afsana Lachaux @afsanalachaux and to our chair @K_IngalaSmith. #WPUKagainstMVAWG

We will put the recording of this webinar on our YouTube channel. #WPUKagainstMVAWG See you next time.