Thread by @DKaplanWTAE

1:30 P.M. FEDERAL HEARING THREAD

Trump campaign lawsuit trying to prevent Pennsylvania from not certifying it's results.

Spoke to a constitutional law expert last week who walked me through the 2 key components in *this* case.

#WTAE

wtae.com/article/simpli…

Penn Law professor Kermit Roosevelt basically says Trump campaign needs to prove widespread voter fraud

and/or

The election was administered so poorly that it favored one candidate over another and that it wasn't fundamentally fair.

Thus far, no proof of widespread, malicious voter fraud in Pa, nor has any been laid out in the court doc filed by the Trump team.

Election administration claims center largely around 'curing' of ballots. But no evidence that R's or D's were given different opps w/in a county.

I'm on the line and waiting. Will start to update here when the hearing gets underway in a half hour.

#WTAE

Here we go.

There were 4,000 available slots to listen in on this call and all of them are full.

#WTAE

Judge Matthew Brann says he's read everything docketed.

Wants clarification:

That Trump campaign's two remaining counts are for violation of equal protections clause and electors clause.

Giuliani says that's correct. Only real issue for today is equal protections issues.

Giuliani starts w/ open:

He says in court that this is a case of widespread voter fraud. Few, if any other Trump campaign attorneys have made this claim in court, in front of a judge.

Begins by saying mail-in voting is prone to widespread fraud, but we haven't seen this proven.

Giuliani calls Philadelphia and Allegheny "Democrat machines" that are "well known for voter fraud".

Giuliani says observers weren't allowed to watch ballot counting, which we're told is not true. There weren't complaints to elections officials here of unequal treatment.

Giuliani continues his allegation in court that democratic cities specifically kept observers away from watching the ballot counting process. Says Pittsburgh and Philadelphia did this, but "it's happening in at least 10 other" cities; naming Detroit, Milwaukee.

Giuliani brings up a voter that forgot to put a ballot in the secrecy envelope. Says that voter tried to correct the ballot, and "his vote was discarded". Giuliani says in counties, they were allowed to cure ballots, but his witness was not.

"Our inspectors didn't get to see a single ballot" in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, Giuliani says.

"I believe we're going to prove it," he added.

General crux of the allegation is that Trump campaign and republican voters were treated wrongly and unfairly in Philly and PGH.

"This is absurd. This is a disgrace. This is like telling the General Assembly of Pennsylvania, 'we don't care about your law'," Giuliani said.

"Isn't this ridiculous, your honor?" Giuliani said, "Isn't this fraud?"

"This doesn't happen in an honest place."

Giuliani alleges 1.5 million votes in PA illegal, & only person who knows if they complied with the law is an employee of a democratic city or county.

Want to reiterate, I spent dozens of hrs in the Elections Warehouse. We were never made aware of observer unable to see process.

Giuliani offers no evidence his opening of fraud, but says they have hundreds of affidavits, they have pictures to enter into the record.

1st pieces of evidence are pictures of observers being far away. Exhibits C and D submitted are from Allegheny Co.

W/ that, RG wraps open.

Up next- Daniel Donovan- for Secretary of State Boockvar:

Nov. 23 certification deadline is fast approaching.

Starts by pointing out that canvass watching allegations were removed from the complaint before the court.

Donovan starts by picking apart the Trump Campaign's complaint.

No claim that a voter filed more than 1 ballot. No claim that a voter had their vote wrongly rejected. No claim that anyone not eligible to vote, voted. No claim of voter fraud.

Donovan says the allegation is some voters weren't able to cure ballots, and therefore zero ballots should count.

Donovan says this is not a violation of the constitution.

Donovan says Trump campaign lacks standing.

"Federal courts have immense power, but limited jurisdiction."

They argue some qualified voters were able to cure or vote provisional if there was a deficiency.

They only allege this in Philadelphia County, not in any other 66 co's.

Donovan cites a court ruling that says some allegations of improper votes doesn't "dilute" or make other votes null.

This opposes the equal protection claim the Trump campaign makes: just bc there are ALLEGATIONS of unlawful counting, DOESN'T MEAN all votes shouldn't be counted

DONOVAN: The campaign argues that the counting of cured or provisional ballots, but it wouldn't affect campaign in a particular way because ballots being counted are for ALL federal and state elections. All candidates were subject to same rules.

Donovan: The two voters Giuliani is citing don't live in any of the counties being sued. AND they had the opportunity to vote provisionally if they wanted to. So you can't nullify the votes of people in other counties.

Donovan: All the "evidence" presented from Trump campaign has allegations that don't prove any sort of injury to a wide swath of voters.

That's it for "standing" on these two voters.

Now moving to equal protection issues.

I just lost connection to the line.

My apologies. Working thru this to try and get back on.

We're still in a holding pattern...

In the meantime, a 5-2 ruling just came down from the STATE supreme court saying all the ballot observing in Philadelphia County was legal and above board for both parties.

From Reuters reporter @bradheath who has a copy of the Philadelphia ruling:

"[The Trump campaign attorney] could view the entirety of the pre-canvassing and canvassing process," which was based on testimony HE gave to the court, according to this ruling.

https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1328800104120246274

Alright, sounds like we're about to get up and moving again.

AT&T organizing getting everyone back onto the call. Sounds like the court is ready to roll.

Donovan is back saying that the equal protection violations the Trump campaign is claiming "fails as a matter of law".

This is regarding the experience of the two voters the Trump campaign is putting forth as being a reason to get rid of all votes.

Donovan going through similar cases across the country that says courts have all ruled that one counties policies and procedures aren't a reason to throw away votes in other counties because of their policies and procedures regarding curing/fixing ballots.

Donovan: Boockvar denies strongly that equal protections were violated. Believes this should be dismissed TODAY as a matter of law.

And with that Donovan rests on behalf of the Secretary of State.

Up next is an attorney for the counties involved.

Mark Aronchick specifically cites the PA Supreme Court ruling that just came down saying everything was above board.

Aronchick specifically calls out Rudy Giuliani's claims that poll watchers weren't able to meaningfully observe the ballot counting.

Also alleges Giuliani isn't familiar with some of the case law surrounding this case.

Aronchick specifically talks about how the allegations of fraud were removed from the original complaint before the judge today and then talked about fraud in his opening arguments. Says fraud hasn't been proven elsewhere in the country, and yet Giuliani made allegations in court

Aronchick is making a passionate argument that there is no argument that anyone's equal protections were violated because some counties handle curing more diligently than others and that Giuliani's arguments aren't based on a solid legal foundation.

Just stepped out to shoot some TV stuff for 5.

Aronchick has been talking about the fact that curing didn't benefit one party over another in a county. Thanked Boockvar for encouraging all counties to help voters cure ballots and bend towards enfranchisement.

Aronchick wraps up a passionate half-hour urging the federal court to dismiss this case.

Looks like we're heading to a 10 minute recess.

Aaaaand we're back.

Attorneys for two other parties want to speak.

Centre County attorney: We did nothing wrong. No concrete facts in complaint that show anything was wrong. It was open, live streamed, all candidates and parties had observers, there were no complaints.

Centre County Atty: Trump campaign had a representative in the room the whole time and they never complained once to elections officials. They want this dismissed.

Democratic National Committee representative up next...

DNC specifically hammers home that the two voters allegedly denied their right to vote don't live in the counties that are being sued, so there's no standing and no reason that hundreds of thousands of votes should be thrown out.

DNC atty says the equal protection argument doesn't hold water and that there's no uniformity with how county's can notify voters to cure. Counties don't discriminate party notifying voter.

As 2 fraud, cites Trump campaign attys saying in state courts they WEREN'T alleging it.

DNC Atty says the allegations made by Giuliani today aren't being made by other Trump campaign attorneys in state court. Specifically cites an attorney saying she wasn't alleging fraud, she's currently in the court room with Giuliani on behalf of the Trump campaign.

Linda Kearns submitted a brief last night to withdraw her representation of the Trump campaign and the judge denied the motion last night. At the beginning of today's hearing, the judge specifically said he had questions he wanted to ask Kearns before the end of today's hearing.

Last attorney on behalf of some voters:

Says, fundamentally, that just because voters were allowed to cure votes doesn't mean that others votes shouldn't be disenfranchised.

"To call that fraud, to call that illegal is just insulting."

Now Judge Brann wants to ask Linda Kearns, the Trump campaign lawyer questions.

Asks how the complaints of two voters can justify throwing 6.8 million votes out.

Allows Giuliani to answer.

Appears as though Giuliani is responding, but isn't at a microphone, so we can't hear.

I'm really sorry I can't post Giuliani's response. He must not be at a mircophone or the microphone he's at must not be on.

Here we go:

Giuliani-- argues that only democratic counties allowed curing. Reality is: We're not asking for whole vote be cancelled, but remedy is what's usually applied when there's a violation of the rules. Calls this an "egregious" and "planned" violation.

Giuliani is again alleging that ballots were not examined properly in Philadelphia and Allegheny Counties despite on the record testimony to the contrary.

Called mail in ballots inherently "fraudulent".

The only way we can police these ballots is inspect them.

Giuliani says ballots could be "from Mickey Mouse".

In actuality, there's a step-by-step process by which a voter has to apply for and request a mail-in ballot.

Alleges mail-in ballots inherently disadvantaged Republicans.

Giuliani still talking. Heading outside to do more TV.

I'll keep monitoring and be back in a few to give any updates.

#WTAE

OK. Back.

We're into the specific complaint before the court after there was an amended complaint filed before the hearing.

Asks Giuliani if he's alleging fraud. RG not alleging specific fraud from voters, but a widespread scheme to allow democrats to vote more easily by mail.

Judge asking abt standing.

Specifically asks Trump team why these voters were damaged to the pt where votes should be invalidated in other cos.

Kearns: Certain voters were given opportunity to cure, and others not. Believe they have standing b/c of unequal treatment of voters.

Kearns says the two voters didn't have the opportunity to cure their ballots, but voters in other counties did.

Reminder that elections are administered by counties, and each was given guidance from SoS to allow curing, but not every county took advantage of that.

Judge: Why/how did Boockvar's actions disenfranchise voters in Lancaster and Fayette Counties?

Trump Campaign: Boockvar doesn't have authority to interpret/change the law. Says some counties followed and some didn't.

Judge: Isn't this a court of common pleas issue, then?

Trump Campaign: We're making an argument for ALL citizens of commonwealth regarding these curing notifications. That's why it belongs in federal court.

Judge asks question about equal protection: What is injury to campaign.

Trump campaign: Bc of unfair treatment across the commonwealth, certain votes counted, and some not.

"If everyone would have had a chance to cure" it's very likely the results would have been very different

Judge: Why does campaign have standing to vindicate voters rights when the voters can vindicate rights on their own?

Giuliani: Campaign was harmed because in one part of the state they'd have been allowed to vote, in another, they won't. Impacts voters too.

Giuliani: This happened because of inconsistent advise from Secretary.

Judge: Is it inconsistent or selective?

RG: selective and ambiguous.