These are not difficult questions to answer. As many modern hermeneuts have argued, we need to first determine what is essential & what is accidental to the Qur'anic discourse. You can well understand this from a verse you yourself would be keen on citing in regard to war. 1/
The Qur'an says to prepare against the enemy "steeds of war." The question arises: do we understand the "steeds" (i.e. horses) as essential or accidental to the Qur'anic discourse? It seems obvious to say that this is accidental, related to the contingent historical context. 2/
What is essential, meanwhile, is the overall message: be prepared against your enemies so that they don't attack you. This is what is transhistorical & universal in the Qur'anic discourse, not the specificity of "steeds of war." 3/
Similarly, when it comes to the punishment of hand amputation, modern hermeneuts have argued that the actual mode of punishment is accidental & historically contingent. The Qur'an decrees it, as it did the horses, but this is based on contingent historical circumstances. 4/
There was, at that time, no prison system nor even the capability for this. However, had imprisonment been one of the main punishments for this at the time, it is quite possible the Qur'an would have selected this, just as if it has been that elephants were the main war animal 5/
then the Qur'an might have used that instead of horses. What the essential, universal, & transhistorical import of this Qur'anic passage is, however, is the idea of deterrence & rule of law, as well as forgiveness, mercy, & rehabilitation. 6/
Similarly, the institution of slavery existed at the time & we take the liberatory ethic as what the essential, universal, & transhistorical import of the Qur'an is. Keep in mind that I am here speaking as a Muslim interpreter of the divine text... 7/
since MEANING is in the realm of the (sometimes secular) textual scholar but here we are talking about SIGNIFICANCE, i.e. how do we apply the meaning today in the here & now. 8/
Finally, to come directly to your question, "Is hand chopping... deserved to be mentioned by God?" Well, yes, for the obvious fact that it was the accepted punishment of the time, & what was in place, as with concubinage. This is why it makes all the sense in the world... 9/
to be mentioned in & by the Qur'an. This is a different question than the next one you asked, which is about morality. I do not consider hand amputations in the pre-modern period to necessarily be "immoral" or to warrant moral outrage. 10/
It seems to me that this is context & society-dependent. In the future, it is quite possible that people will look back at our present moment & think prison seems barbaric. But, I do not think it would be right to warrant moral outrage & judgment on all people everywhere...11/
of that society, especially those who tried to reform aspects of it. On the other hand, I consider slavery to be immoral, but here again, the Qur'anic ethical trajectory is emancipatory. 12/
If you are judging the book as a historical text, then I think our judgment of it from this aspect must be a positive one, given that it is emancipatory in ethic. It is only if we view it as a divine religious scripture, which you don't, that we then face the question... 13/
of why it doesn't abolish slavery altogether. But, then in this case, you should also accept the religious thinking of the believer, who understands an accidental & essential element to the text, & an ethical trajectory. 14/
What you want to do, on the other hand, is make a secular judgment of the text based on a religious premise (i.e. its transhistoricity). Either you take a purely secular historical perspective, in which case the Qur'an on the topic of slavery fairs well. Or... 15/
alternatively, you can take a religious perspective, in which case you have to then take seriously the religious approaches to the text itself, which include the very sensible hermeneutical method I outlined above. 16/
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The idea -- that the Ḥudūd are meant only as a deterrent & almost never to be enforced in actuality -- is a fully mainstream opinion amongst traditional scholars, past & present, to such an extent that certain exemplary punishments -- including stoning & hand amputation-- 1/
were only rarely applied. I recall a claim made by Ibn Taymiyya, for example, that the stoning punishment had never actually been enforced based on witnesses alone (as opposed to self-confession) from the time of the Prophet to his time. I will need to dig this up... 2/
but Prof. @JonathanACBrown cites similar statements, including this: "In the roughly five hundred years that the Ottoman Empire ruled Constantinople, records show that only one instance of stoning for adultery took place... 3/
Did someone pay you to throw me this softball? Well, thank you for teeing me up this way. Much appreciated! In point of fact, there is actual scholarship on this very topic & you should at least exhibit a cursory awareness of it, my friend. 1/
These statements are considered highly problematic & doubtful, & are almost certainly back-projections onto the Prophet & ʿUmar. They are put into the Prophet's mouth as a deathbed pronouncement, which you should know are very convenient & therefore of highly doubtful nature, 2/
especially when it counters earlier Qur'anic/Prophetic policy & just happens to line up with later highly crystallized theological views. But, of course, you won't take my word for it since I am a Muslim, so I would refer you to Harry Munt's peer-reviewed article on it... 3/
Well, I think both discourses are correct since they are directed at different audiences, with different purposes in mind. One is directed internally & the other externally; both are correct & at play: 1) rioting & looting is generally harmful; 2) yet, they are understandable 1/
in the context of greater discrimination, unfair systems, socio-economic inequalities & injustices, etc. Ultimately, the video, made by the right-wing Daily Caller, gets both things wrong. First, the fact that many black people in the video opposed rioting/looting dispels... 2/
right-wing stereotypes of that community. Second, the statements made by the suburban white folks in that video were also reasonable & well-placed. Overall, the video may be food for thought but not as the Daily Caller wants us to take it. 3/
I agree with Prof. @JonathanACBrown & would also point out, along these lines, that another element that is woefully ignored is the decades-long support of right-wing Islamist forces by Western countries (US/UK/Israel) in a bid to counter nationalism & as a part of... 1/
Cold War politics. They engineered this wave of right-wing Islamism & then, in a morbid irony, switched to seeing the green crescent as the enemy when the same foe it was propped up against, i.e. the red sickle, was no longer seen as a credible threat & boogieman. 2/
I had always been aware of this connection but only recently have I started to understand the true extent of this link, thanks to a colleague who pointed me in this direction. The riposte to this idea is always to gripe about how it's convenient for Muslims to blame the West. 3/
Instead of issuing a long, drawn-out response, I've decided to just engage @XGONDALX & you here. Your first point is one that you continually bring up, which is your claim that I am "inconsistent" in my methodology in regard to Ḥadīth. But, in reality... 1/
It is you & @XGONDALX who are highly inconsistent & opportunistic in your methodology, including in this regard. Quite frankly, you will use any methodology or strategy, so long as it results in a negative image of Islam. This is apparent in your strategy to deal with... 2/
the Islamic sources. The great inconsistency of your work is that you insist on using modern secular scholarship when it comes to the recent findings on the Qur'an. These complicate traditional narratives, as you well know, & you (@XGONDALX) have made a whole series of videos 3/
Your "thought experiment" can hardly justify that name & is unsophisticated truck driver-level rhetoric that does not befit you, at least from what I have seen elsewhere as far as your intellectual potential (which as yet has to be reached). It will take all of two seconds...1/
of thought for me to answer your challenge. You raise two simple points: 1) hand amputation & 2) sex slavery in the Qur'an. Both of these are ahistorical & decontextualized lines of attack. As for the first, it is well-accepted that the punishment of hand amputation... 2/
preceded the Qur'an & Islam: "Remarkably, not only stoning and hand-amputation, but nearly the entire range of Islamic adultery and theft legislation have pre-Islamic parallels" (Young 2005). As Islamic reformists have long argued, had the punishment of the time been prison... 3/