Thread by @ripx4nutmeg

The CEO of Pink News, Benjamin Cohen was on #r4today to discuss the threat to women's rights by allowing males who identify as women into women's spaces. He followed Simon Fanshawe, who argued that Stonewall, the charity he founded, was failing women. Here's the transcript 1/14

Justin Webb (JW - #r4today presenter): On abolishing legal provisions for single-sex spaces [audible tut, presumably from BC], do you not accept that it's acceptable for women to campaign for those spaces and say that those who have changed sex should not be in them? 2/14

BC: It's obviously a delight that during Pride and Pink News' 'Pride for all', the BBC has decided to have a debate with two different gay people about trans issues. It's quite odd. I'm a cisgender man. I'm not transgender. Simon is not transgender and you're not transgender 3/14

JW: Number one: You don't know anything about me. Number two: I asked you a question, could you answer it?

BC: I've made a statement: Is this an issue about trans issues with no trans voice?

JW: You've made your statement, could you answer the question. 4/14

BC: You made the statement that who gets access to single-sex spaces has changed. It hasn't. The Equality Act was passed in 2010, there have been no changes to that.

JW: What I suggested is that Stonewall would like to change it and a lot of women are worried about it. 5/14

BC: You claimed that but it's not actually true (audible tut, presumably from JW). Stonewall supports self ID, which is simply about paperwork. You've been able to self ID for practical purposes for the Equality Act since 2010. 6/14

JW: Not to be able to go to a safe space for women, like a women's refuge. They're protected aren't they?

BC: Yes, and they continue to be. Answer me a question Justin. Has Stonewall said those spaces should be open to trans people? I don't believe they have. 7/14

JW: Haven't Stonewall been campaigning for those single-sex spaces not to be women only?

BC: They aren't campaigning for that. That's just misinformation being spread by a homophobic and transphobic media. 8/14

JW: When the boss of Stonewall compares people who believe in the immutability of biological sex with antisemites, what are we to make of that? 9/14

BC: That was an interview with the BBC. You're quoting something she didn't say, but it doesn't matter as it's a good headline. She described different forms of hate speech. She described gender critical views, which is the polite way of saying transphobia, and antisemitism 10/14

JW: Gender critical feminism is not a polite way of saying transphobia. You know that.

BC: You just described it as.. erm. Let me clarify. I'm trying to answer the actual question that she compared it to antisemitism and the quotes on the BBC wasn't what you just quoted. 11/14

JW: She said: "With all beliefs including controversial beliefs - whether it's antisemitic beliefs, gender critical beliefs, beliefs about disability - we have legal systems that are put in place for people who are harmed by that." 12/14

BC: I am someone who's a member of the LGBT+ community, I am Jewish and I am also someone who has a disability. If you discriminate against me on any of those bases it's the same. They're as bad as each other.

JW: No it's not. This is about speech 13/14

BC: If you discriminate against me because I'm gay or because I'm Jewish, which is worse? Justin?

JW: Benjamin Cohen, thanks for talking to us, we're out of time. Stonewall could have come on, but didn't.

bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0… from 1:50:35 (14/14)