Enjoyed the @rcpsych IC session on deprescribing with @wendyburn David Taylor and Robin Murray. We had over 100 questions put to us - not seen so many before. Some very good questions from psychiatrists: 'Why is not a requirement of licensing these drugs that they are shown...1/n
to be safe to stop?'. 'Shouldn't we demand that manufacturers make medications in ways that make it easy to stop?' 'Why have academic psychopharmacologists, who should know best about this issue, both ignored and then minimised this problem?' 2/n
'Should we include a discussion about potential withdrawal phenomena when we are consenting something to start treatment?' 'Is there specific guidance for CAMHS/older age people?' 3/n
'Specific advice for neurodevelopmental problems' 'for tapering off people with bipolar?', 'for tapering off people who use the drugs for pain?' 4/n
'Are we allowed to order tapering strips for our patients who can't taper off with meds or liquid or do we need to wait for permission from RCPsych or NHSE' (answer: available now) 5/n
' How common is it for people to experience hypomania/manic episode when stopping antidepressants?' 'Are these issues relevant to switching drugs as well as stopping them?' 6/n
'Have there been any class action law suits and compensation success?' and 'Do you think SSRIs can create dependency in the same way illicit drugs do?' 7/n
If antipsychotics simply lead to upregulation of DA receptors how do they even work in the first place?' 7/n
In other words sensible, thoughtful questions from people trying to get their head around the issue. Only the loudest (and generally paid) voices say nonsense like 'antidepressants aren't addictive so they can't cause problems'. Increasingly irrelevant... 8/n

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More from @markhoro

22 Apr
Outline of the Cochrane study a bit for those scared of its length. Metro article: bit.ly/3tVfOah Lead author: the dauntless Ellen van Leuween. Co-author @tony_kendrick bit.ly/32KLJhj While there are hundreds of studies looking at starting antidepressants(1/n)
we found only 33 studies looking at stopping antidepressants, a therefore hugely neglected area 2/n
Most studies stopping antidepressants abruptly or in less than 4 weeks. This is not consistent with even the current lacklustre NICE guidance (stop over more than 4 weeks) and certainly nothing like the improved guidance from RCPsych bit.ly/3dHYUpL (3/n)
Read 16 tweets
23 Mar
(Thread) Today we have published a paper on a way to reduce antipsychotics to minimise withdrawal effects and possibly relapse in @SchizBulletin. bit.ly/31bc8Eg with thanks to co-authors Robin Murray, David Taylor, @sameerjauhar and Sridhar Natesan. (1/n)
It extends our work on risperidone to more antipsychotic drugs bit.ly/3tMFdSV
It provides some examples of pharmacologically rational tapering regimes for haloperidol, risperidone, olanzapine, clozapine, quetiapine and amisulpride which takes into account 2/n
their pharmacological characteristics and clinical trials. We suggest reducing dose by 5 or 10 percentage points of D2 occupancy (equivalent to about one quarter or one half of the dose) every 3-6 months. (3/n)
Read 18 tweets
17 Mar
(Thread) With due respect to others who have contributed to my special edition I consider this one of the most important pieces. bit.ly/2OAa1aH @Altostrata When I was coming off an antidepressant and in dire straits, I could not find any guidance on what was (1/n)
going on or how to navigate out of it from published literature. Without Adele Framer I would not have been able to get off my drugs; indeed I am not sure I would be alive. I have learnt a lot from her and now I am very glad that now other clinicians, patients (2/n)
and researchers will be able to learn from the wisdom she has gained over 15 years and deep study. She tells me she looked and looked for an expert to be able to help her and could not find one. Instead, she was forced to become one herself. (3/n)
Read 6 tweets
4 Mar
If you have been tapered off a psych drug too fast by a doctor, is it possible (after recovering) to go back and try to let them know what happened? Understand there may be a lot of anger. But could help others avoid the same fate. Terrible thing to have ask ppl to do I know
I ask this because in a focus group yesterday some ppl had done this. Know this takes a lot of energy. But ppl need to stop being told 'I have never seen this before', 'I don't know what to do'. At some point I am sure @rcgp will spring into action
It is also a numbers game. There are about 30,000 GPs in England. Based on this paper there are 10,000 English people just on a handful of facebook sites who know how to taper antidepressants. There are more ppl learning all the time bit.ly/3qhgTXb
Read 4 tweets
8 Nov 20
In the same way that benzos can make anxiety worse in the long term, can antidepressants worsen the condition they are designed to treat? Proud to have commissioned this thoughtful analysis: bit.ly/2GDRMgj @TAPsychopharm /1
Current diagnostic systems in psychiatry do not consider the iatrogenic components of psychopathology, and can be applied to only patients who are drug free. They are suited for a patient who no longer exists: most of the cases that are seen in psychiatric clinical practice.../2
"...receive psychotropic drugs and such treatment is likely to affect prognosis and treatment choices."/3
Read 11 tweets
5 Aug 20
How to taper antipsychotic medication to minimise withdrawal problems: more slowly than you think, down to fractions of usually used doses. Might need liquid versions, pill cutters. Thks Robin Murray, David Taylor @sameerjauhar Sridhar Natesan @JAMAPsych bit.ly/2XyvtxM
Summary: Antipsychotics can reduce psychotic symptoms and might reduce relapse rates so can be useful. But lots of side effects: tardive dyskinesia, metabolic problems, subjectively unpleasant, probable brain shrinkage. 1/
Doses should therefore be reduced to minimal effective dose, which for some might be zero. Also evidence that functioning (employment, independent living, relationships) improve for less or no antipsychotic /2
Read 19 tweets

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