Thread by @barandbench

Hijab Row: Karnataka High Court to resume hearing case at 2.30 pm today.

#HijabControversy #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHC #HijabRowInKarnataka

Track this thread for live account from the hearing

Yesterday, the State government told the Karnataka High Court that the petitioners were claiming that wearing of hijab was an essential religious practice, with a view to bind every Muslim woman to a particular dress code.

#KarnatakaHijabRow

A plea has also been filed before Karnataka High Court alleging that the controversy is a creation of 'toolkit' to Islamise India, and has sought NIA probe

Read more here: bityl.co/B2LC

Hijab Row: LIVE UPDATES from Karnataka High Court - Day 8

#HijabCircular #HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHC #KarnatakaHijabRow

Read LIVE ACCOUNT here: bityl.co/B2LO

Bench assembles.

Advocate for petitioner says they have filed a plea for clarification of interim order. Please hear it at the end of the day.

Call for the records: Chief Justice Ritu Raj Awasthi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Advocate mentions fresh plea against media.

Students being chased humiliated: Adv.

We have called for record: CJ Awasthi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

CJ Awasthi says Court wants to complete hearing of the matter this week.

Whatever you want to argue, do it this week: CJ Awasthi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Advocate General Prabhuling Navadgi resumes submissions on behalf of State.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC

AG Navadgi begins submissions, referring to a case Mohd Hanif Qureshi and Ors v. State of Bihar on whether sacrifice of cow is essential to Islam.
#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG quoting from the case - "No affidavit has been filed by any person specially competent to expound the relevant tenets of Islam. 'No reference is made in the petition to any particular Surah of the Holy Quran which, in terms, requires the sacrifice of a cow."

"We have, however, no material on the record before us which will enable us to say, in the face of the foregoing facts, that the sacrifice of a cow on that day is an obligatory overt act for a Mussalman to exhibit his religious belief and idea," AG quoting Quareshi case.

"In the premises, it is not possible for us to uphold this claim of the petitioners," the Supreme Court held.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

indiankanoon.org/doc/93885/

It is for the petitioners to demonstrate beyond doubt what is compulsory to be followed. The second test laid down by Supreme Court is it must be obligatory in nature: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG Navadgi quotes Qureshi case - "It is therefore, optional for a Muslim to sacrifice a goat for one person or a cow or a camel for seven persons. It does not appear to be obligatory that a person must sacrifice a cow."

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy

AG submits that what is 'optional' is not obligatory. If it is not obligatory it is not compulsory. What is not compulsory is not essential. Therefore, it does not fall within the realm of essential religious practice: AG Navadgi

It has to be 'fundamental' to the very religion: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: One of the arguments which has been advanced by the petitioners is that their right is traced independently to Article 19(1)(a) to wear the dress in exercise of right of freedom of expression. That argument is mutually destructive and contrary to present preposition.

If their argument is accepted, then persons who do not wish to wear it would have fundamental right not to wear it. That means element of option is there. So if 19(1)(a) argument makes it mutually destructive: AG Navadgi.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy

You cannot argue both Article 25 and Article 19(1)(a): AG Navadgi

Justice Dixit: Are they mutually exclusive?

AG: They are mutually destructive.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: If your Lordships declare that any dress is "essential" to a religion, the consequences are that every person (in that community) MUST accept it. It is an element of compulsion.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

CJ Awasthi: Suppose if someone wants to wear it under Article 19(1)(a) and you are restraining it then are you not restricting their fundamental right?

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: There is no ban on hijab in the country. The right to wear hijab under 19(1)(a) is subject to reasonable restrictions under 19(2).
In our case, Rule 11 places reasonable restriction for institutional discipline.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy

AG: Our case is that so far as the present case is concerned, Rule 11 places reasonable restriction as a matter of institutional discipline. There is no ban on wearing hijab in the country, but every institution has internal regulation and discipline.

Every institution has institutional discipline. It may be hospitals, schools, military establishments: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

After RC Cooper case, these Constitutional rights came to be recognised as a companion rights complimentary to each other: Justice Krishna Dixit.

Even in Maneka Gandhi case: Adv. Kaleeswaram Raj

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

It is Rule 11 which imposes reasonable restrictions on wearing headscarf.

The independent claim of Art 19(1) cannot go together with claim of Art 25: AG Navadgi.

AG Navadgi refers to State of Madras v. VG Row

indiankanoon.org/doc/554839/

I don't think I need to dwell much on reasonableness of prescribing uniform for schools and students. Preamble of the Karnataka Education Act mentions secular outlook: AG Navadgi

Also there is no restriction on wearing hijab on campus. It is only in the classroom and during class hours. It is uniformly applicable to all irrespective of religion: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG Navadgi: In France, I am told, there is total prohibition of hijab in public life. But I don't think anyone can say there is no Islamic religion in that country.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

It all depends upon the Constititonal policy every country, nation to nation, the extent of liberty: Justice Dixit.

I am citing France to test whether hijab is essential: AG

CJ Awasthi: Islam is same for all whether they are in India or in another country

AG: There is no prohibition in our country. I am not saying it (France) should be made applicable here

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG Navadgi referring to Ismail Faruqui judgment.

indiankanoon.org/doc/37494799/

In it, Supreme Court had held that mosque is not an essential to the practice of Islam and can be acquired by govt.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: Certain Surahs in the Quran mention the mosque as a place to offer prayers. In the face of such injunctions the Court, has held it does not form an "Essential part" of Islam.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG Navadgi: I will cite the Surahs.

Surah 2 - verse 144, verse 145, verse 187

Surah 17 - verse 2 and verse 7

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

I am not an expert on holy Quran. It is the most difficult part of this case we have ventured into. We have been able to get English translation of Quran: AG

AG Navadgi: This book I am referring to is The Holy Quran translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, a lawyer from Pakistan.

He has been referred to by Supreme Court of India in Shayara Bano case with the consent of all parties.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy

AG says petitioners placed reliance on Surah 24, verse 31.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG quotes from verse - "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears."

AG quotes: "Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons... "

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt

AG reads from the commentary.

CJ Awasthi: This talks about outer garment, a long gown. It is not only about headdress.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

You mean to say whatever portion of Quran they have relied on also does not speak about hijab: CJ Awasthi

AG: Yes, on a plain reading.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

But Kerala HC...: CJ Awasthi

AG: What they did is Arabic version speaks of Khumur. But the reference is to Hadith. And it is pre- Shayara Bano. Shayara Bano and Sabrimala have settled the law in this regard. The judgement of the Kerala HC was before these cases.

The entire shift takes place after Shayara Bano and Sabarimala: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: quran.com is a website which the petitioners banked upon

Adv Kamat agrees that he relied upon quran.com

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

The sources which Mr. Kamat banked upon, are they recognised as authoritative? Justice Dixit.

No, it is not: AG

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: The website quran.com was created by a few volunteers and was made possible with the help of the open source Muslim community online, which is mentioned on the website

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Has any High Court relied upon and treated it as authoritative source? Justice Dixit

To my knowledge, no: AG

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG Navadgi: The last leg of my submission I make is, assuming you accept every submission made by the petitioners, in the light of the law made by the Courts in Sabrimala and others can the hijab be accepted in schools on point of Constitutional morality?

Ultimately, if someone is coming to the court for declaration that we want every woman of a particular faith to wear that, would it not violate the dignity of that person whom we are all subjugating: AG Navadgi

It is a compulsion of an attire which we want to impose on that person which according to me is impermissible in this day and age and as interpreted by the Hon'ble Supreme Court: AG

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

If in Hindu marriage, we hold tying of mangalsutra is essential, it does not mean all Hindus in country should compulsorily wear mangalsutra. We declare legal position and leave it there: Justice Dixit

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC

The difficulty in this case is as soon as it becomes a religious sanction the woman concerned becomes obligated to wear that particular dress. The element of choice goes away: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

You meant to say if Court holds that it is ERP, then Muslim women who do not wear it, it might amount to lowering their dignity: CJ Awasthi

Yes, certainly. They might be castigated by somebody: AG

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC

It hits at the liberty of that individual. The choice to wear what we want and choice not to wear what we do not want. Every woman of every faith has that choice. There cannot be religions sanction by way of judicial declaration: AG

Somebody wants to wear it, no difficulty. Of course subject to institutional discipline. That is a different argument: AG Navadgi.

In Sabariamala women, were prevented from entering the temple: AG Navadgi

Has review been decided in Sabarimala: CJ

On 7 questions, matter has been referred to larger Bench. But the Sabarimala judgment is law as of today: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Even though judgment has been referred to larger Bench, the judgment which lays down the law continues to bind all courts including Supreme Court: AG

That is correct but before us too, there are issues which would touch questions referred to larger bench in Sabarimala: CJ

Justice Dixit: What is the legal authority when a judgement has been referred to a larger bench?

AG Refers to Ms Bhati v National Insurance Company.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

There are three judgments. I had anticipated this question: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

In Sabarimala as to why it was referred, the questions there are slightly different: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG Navadgi: Women cannot be subjected to any compulsion of dress

AG reads out Sabarimala judgment.

indiankanoon.org/doc/163639357/

AG Navadgi reading out Sabarimala judgment

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

The entire claim of petitioners is to make it compulsory and that goes against the fundamentals of Constitutional interpretation: AG Navadgi

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

This para finds recognition in ethos, age old saying of this country - where women are respected, there the Gods will dwell: Justice Krishna Dixit

AG: Yes. I repeat, no prohibition of hijab but it cannot be compulsory. It must be left to woman concerned.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHC

AG Navadgi refers to Puttuswamy judgement on privacy; he says it is in the context of competing rights.

indiankanoon.org/doc/127517806/

There have been instance when in military right of growing of beard was negatived on the ground that institutional discipline required not to exhibit individual choices: AG

AG: We deny that there is religious discrimination. These are bald faced allegations. No person from one community has been preferred over another community.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: Before closing, we are not enforcing anything on private minority institutions. We have left it to them we have left it to their choice. There is a petition claiming we are.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

AG: Dignity of women must be kept in mind. This morning when I was coming to the Court I heard a beautiful song by Hindi song: "Naa munh chhupake jiyo, Aur naa sar jhuka ke jiyo"

That is what every woman must be trained and be expected to: AG Navadgi

AG Navadgi concludes arguments.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Sr Adv. R Venkataramani starts submissions on behalf of a respondent-teacher.
#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Sr. R Venkatramani: Discipline and order is important for both teacher and taught. I am not trying to say that Religion A is higher or B is lower. There is no hierarchy of religions. Everyone has equal right to practise and propagate their religions.

As a teacher I would love to have a free mind in the class. Any measure on the part of the State and the part of the school to bring in discipline - as long as there is neutrality - different spaces in the community need public order: Sr. R Venkataramani

Different public spaces stand on different footing. Schools are in a very higher position. It is a place where people come together for learning, enriching one's mind and spirit: R Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Governance is a very heavy subject. Only when there is a breach of governance on basic constitutional fundamentals, that courts will interfere: Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

I say there is great emphasis on order and discpline. Any part of the world, the ethos, cultural aspect, the long history of the nation. France might not have along histroy of pluralism. We have a long history: Venkataramani

Europe today is going through pluralism and merger etc and they cant even hold together. EU is breaking. So to borrow a country's example mechanically and to graft it Constitutional discipline in India might be problematic: Venkataramani.

As long as a fundamental requirement of order in institution is indispensable, mere deficiencies in procedure will not lead to nullification of such decision: Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

The scope for enquiry in such matters will be narrowly tailored. The Respondents are concerned with order and discipline which enables them to discharge their duties freely and without impediments: R Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy

My second proposition is on Article 25 (1). Under all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practise and propagate religion: R Venkataramani

State should not enter into matters of what constitutes religion whatever is essential and not essential. State will come in when it collides with public order, morality or health: R Venkatramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy

Whatever be your practice, if it comes into conflict with public order, health or morality, the State can say 'I will stop you': R Venkataramani.

In Article 25(2), State also comes in to regulate economic, social, financial or political activity. When that regulatory power comes in, issues such essentialty comes in. But wrt Article 25 (1), what is essential does not arise: Venkataramani.

Venkatramani argues that as long as broad principles of governance are kept in mind, the Court should be slow to interfere in matters like this

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Freedom of expression does not mean we have to back to dark ages. We want to go ahead and not go back to Dark Ages: Venkataramani.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

People must have all the freedom to practice Holy Koran. But when you enter a public space - that too a qualified public space such as a school it has its own dimensions: Adv. R Venkatramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Let us not for enabling the practice of religion, enter into diluting the vibrant and important insulation of public space from intrusion by any extraneous element: Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Public order cannot be seen in a generic sense or abstract sense. The context here is a public space of a school: Venkataramani

We as a nation have been pluralistic.But looking at experiences around the world, the Constitution makers thought we should not have those experiences here. Hence, public order, morality and health are guidelines: R Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt

The State must look ahead and see what promotes order, discipline and what promotes good for the community. It is not only in Udupi, agitations are happening in many places. These proceedings are being watched by many: R Venkataramani

Regarding the judgement of the Court of South Africa placed by Kamat, it has no bearing on the issue of public order: Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

The emphasis in that judgment is on cultural right and not the religious dimension: Venkataramani.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

In our country, different faiths have its own domains and dimensions and live peacefully. I come from the UT of Pondicherry. We have never known any clash between religions. In different parts of the country we find clashes for assertion of rights: Venkataramani

So we are not averse to foreign judgments. But if a foreign judgement is brought in the absence of comparables, there can be misconceived application of law: Venkataramani

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Sr. Adv. Venkataramani concludes. Sr. Adv. SS Naganand SS begins submissions, appearing for three respondents.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

The prayers in this petition are unusual - the prayer is to initiate enquiry against college for violating guidelines and for probe against college authorities for hostile approach: Naganand.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

But the petition does not say anything about the factual position in the college, if they were wearing hijab, etc. When did they join the college, when all of this happened, nothing is mentioned: Nagagnand.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC

The girl students did not wear the hijab previously. Occasionally, the parents of the girls had asked about it. The parents asked the teachers to ensure that the girls should not be involved in singing, dancing and such activities: Naganand

I don't know if they mean Muslim girls should not sing? If national anthem is sung, should they not sing? Is it against Islam? If they are taught devotional songs about country, mother India, should they not sing: Naganand

None of these have anything to do with religion. There is a fine line of distinction between religion culture: Naganand

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

In some places in South India there is no tying of mangalsutra or thali, in some Hindu communities. Rest of Karnataka, TN, AP thali is essential to marriage: Naganand

This is cultural thing, nothing to do with religion. Same with toe ring. In some ceremonies toe ring is put on the toe of the woman after the wedding: Naganand

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

If one sect of a religion chooses to follow a particular practice out if local conditions it is a cultural practice. Refers to Bunt community and different practices of communities: Naganand

In Roman catholic wedding, the girl does not wear any cloth above her shoulder: Naganand

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

So what I am trying to says is there is a distinction between essential religious practice and a cultural requirement. In Rajasthani families, in royals, they have purdah system. The father in law does not come in front of father in law. Her face is covered by ghoonghat: Naganand

Wearing of headscarf, is it a religious practice? Religion of Islam originated in Saudi Arabia, conditions were harsh: Naganand

They had to pray 5 times a day, that is a part of their religion, but in the modern day every Muslim person cannot always do so: Naganand

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Among Hindus, just after upanayanam, we are supposed to do Sandhya vandanam three times a day. But it is not physically possible. When I am arguing before the Court I cannot go away and do that. Can I argue that you are curtailing my right: Naganand

If I am on a scooter and azaan starts, and I stop in the middle of the road for the same can I say I should be permitted to do so because of my religion? If policeman stops me, can I say you are preventing me from practicing my religion: Naganand

There are some practices which are absolutely essential to the religion. Only those which are absolutely imperative and essential can be treated as essential: Naganand

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Under Islam you have to pray. You can pray. But if you put a loudspeaker and play on high volume at 5 am, I can say I dont want to be woken up in morning. So, if in practicing your religion you are coming in the way of other people's peace, then where does the line lie? Naganand

That is exactly what has happened in this case: Naganand

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Court to continue hearing at 2.30 pm tomorrow.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

Court disposes of a writ petition noting that the Government is not interfering in any manner in minority unaided institutions.

#HijabBan #KarnatakaHighCourt #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC #karnataka

[Hijab row] Women cannot be subjected to compulsion to wear any dress: State to Karnataka High Court

#HijabCircular #KarnatakaHijabControversy #KarnatakaHC

Read story: bityl.co/B2YV