Thread by @TheUfoJoe

1 Lue on with @WitnessCitizen & @JayCKing78...

Start out with a question about Russia & how the invasion began long before yesterday/today. The ground invasion is what began yesterday/today. Part of the blame goes to us for failing to recognize the signs over the past 10 years.

2 That blame goes to conservatives & liberals. Good generals avoid war. Some bullies only understand force.

Lue mentions the fraudsters & hucketers who actually have criminal record for fraud and identity theft and in some cases, being violent against their female counterpart.

3 That truth will come out and it will take a toll on this (UFO/UAP) community. People who follow those hucksters will be turned off to the subject. Lue has no problem with opposition views but DOES have a problem with people who deliberately mislead others.

4 Sean: Are these positive biological effects?

Lue: There are reports some folks have extraordinary experiences. Some folks have trauma & drama in their lives and then magically possess these almost super-hero abilities become virtuosos on the piano or being able to speak a

5 foreign language overnight. But it's more common to see the negative effects: psychological, like fear or PTSD trauma and in some cases, physiological...like (superficial) sunburn which is really radiation burns or, as DIRDs suggest, internal damage to internal organs. Hard to

6 quantify and qualify biological effects. Doesn't mean they're not real. They ARE real. Every person reacts a little bit differently to something. Even things that effect us, you would think, the same. Like burns. Touch a stove and some get 2nd degree and others get 3rd.

7 We still don't know what causes Havana Syndrome. It's real and people have gotten hurt. We need more data.

On Unidentified, you said if people are being taken against their will (abductions), that could be perceived as an act of war, like you said on Unidentified? Semivan

8 said that he viewed his personal experience (with his wife) with a non-human, as a human rights violation. In @ForExperiencers, they have military experiencers in almost every single confidential support meeting. We're very aware that non-human visitation has been tracked

9 and studied for quite a long time by folks like Nolan, Semivan and others. It's not hearsay. Now that these folks are speaking up publicly, is this an opportunity for you to speak more directly on this topic of contact w/non-human entities?

10 Lue: Yes and no. Yes, people are coming out & they're talking about the 6th observable of human effects where as before he had to allude to it. But there are areas. of this topic he still can't discuss bc of his security clearance, which means he has to keep secrets & it also

11 Lue: means he can't tell a lie...bc that's an indicator of a psychological issue. He has a TS clearance. When you're at certain levels with your clearance, you're continuously monitored. They look at ur credit scores. psychological stability, any indications of deception.

12 Lue: They wanna see if you're a liar. Subject to random polygraph examinations, just like he is. So, not only can he not tell a secret, he can't tell a lie. Or, he'll lose his security clearance. It's a balancing act.

13 Lue asks if Jay's significant other was kidnapped and something decided to touch them in a way, w/o their permission. Kidnapping and assault and it potentially caused long-term physiological distress to your significant other. Now, they suffer, medically, from some sort of

14 Lue: long-term consequences and it ultimately, it leads to their death. That's homicide. It's v very serious...it IS a human right's violation. It's a crime. Medical docs oath: Do no harm. That doesn't seem 2B the case here. And if people, hypothetically, are being taken away,

15 Lue: against their will, there can be psychological issues bc people don't believe them. PTSD, quality of life isn't what it could be and they can't realize their full potential. It's a big problem, especially if there's not a whole lot we can do about it. It's a significant

16 Lue: aspect of this convo but one that we have to approach scientifically & avoid going down the woo woo road. By that, I mean, we have to stick to the facts, IMO, if we wanna have an educated convo about this particular aspect of the phenomenon.

17 Lue: Credit should be given to Mellon, @GarryPNolan, you and the others in this field who are making his convo palatable for the first time in 75 years. You're saying, the hell with stigma! Let folks throw stone. It's okay bc you have truth on your side.

18 Sean: Is info. Lue saw in AATIP similar to what Congress is seeing?

Lue: "Undoubtably yes, & it is painting an extremely compelling picture. There is data coming out almost on a daily basis & it has become evident that we do not have clear-sight picture of our air domain."

19 Lue: "We do not have air-domain awareness, as we should, & that's problematic."

Jay: Pt. 2 of Semivan interview where he says: Anybody who asks, can get the confidential brief related to the UAPTF report. If anybody is read in on aerospace capabilities of Russia & China,

20 Jay: they can clearly see that this is orders of magnitude beyond what our adversaries are capable of.

Lue: Not anybody can get access. U have to have the appropriate security clearance. If not, you'll get something watered down. "People ARE receiving those briefings on

21 Lue: "on a regular and continuing basis."

Early on, you said (strategy-wise) it could be Russia or China. Is it time to drop that?

Lue: No, bc some haven't crossed that bridge yet. The moment u mention it could be existential, some folks immediately shut down and not listen.

22 Lue: I experienced it in the Secy of Defense's office when giving briefings to some very senior people. Some could not process the data bc it was too overwhelming and they admitted it. Some said: I don't want to think about it bc it's too much.

23 Need to frame it as a potential adversary if you want involvement from the DoD folks bc they have a lot of data. Can't frame it as...what data do you (DoD) have on UFOs bc chances are, they'll say, "Not very many." If you say...how many reports on Unidentified UAS incurring

24 "into our controlled airspace, here & abroad, they'll probably come back with a different answer and say, 'Well, that we have a lot of.'" Have to keep that option (foreign adversarial) open even though it's increasingly more & more of a remote chance that is what we're dealing

25 Lue: with. Need to leave that door open, even if it's a crack.

Sean on 2019 WC "drones." Do they label them as drones even if they don't know what it is (@JeremyCorbell explained that he was told...this is exactly what they do)?

Lue: "Yeah, bc they know it's gonna be FOIAd!"

26 Lue: (laughs) They're doing exactly what I would have done if I was still in uniform. I'd put, "drones." In the 1910 form (DOPSR), he didn't write UFOs, I wrote UAS, things like balloons, drones, helicopters. The folks he was making the request to weren't cleared to AATIP,

27 Lue: so he couldn't write "UFOs" bc that would have acknowledged they had a UFO program, which he couldn't do! The deck logs are written that way for that exact reason. They say, "Whatever you do, don't write UFO bc it will FOIAble," & folks will say, "A ha! See? I told u guys

28 Lue: were hiding information. So just write the word, 'drone' & we'll take it form there. We know what you mean...wink, wink, nudge nudge." Sometimes it's drones but not all the time.

29 Lue: Drones are subject to the same limitations as anything else we have, technologically speaking. Want something that can fly & loiter 4 a long time? U need big wings & something that can fly at super-high altitudes. They're long range but not very fast or very maneuverable.

30 Then you have quad-copters. They appear to have instantaneous acceleration but they don't really have that. They also don't have loiter capability & they don't really have high-altitude capability. Some can hover & move around pretty quickly & rapidly for a very short period

31 Lue: of time...bc the lift capability is subject to its payload...which is a lithium-ion batteries, which aren't light. You need a robust platform. People say a quadcopter can do it but Lue says it flies for 15 mins.

32 Lue: If you want to move around for hours and hours and hours, with blinking lights and moving over the deck of a ship in the middle of the ocean, where you have to fly there and fly back? That ain't a little quadcopter. You can convince yourself that it is, but it's not.

33 Lue: The Q is: What is it? Is there some sort of hybrid tech where someone has figured out how to use some sort of a semi-inflatable, lighter-than-air balloon, with a propeller that allows it to move like a drone but float like a balloon. Sure. But can it go under water? No.

34 Lue: Well then we have another problem. USOs. Can it go into space? No. Can it disable nuclear capabilities? No. You catch my drift. People say all the time, "Lue doesn't know anything about drones (I spoke to one of them on the phone a few years ago)? Actually, that's one

35 Lue: of the reason I was chosen for AATIP bc I DID (know about drones). I worked, back in the 90s, at the time, some very sensitive UAV programs. Hunter UAV, Pioneer UAV, Darkstar UAV & technology protection & crude missile tech. They did not, nor they now, have some of the

36 Lue: capabilities that we're seeing. You might have a drone that can do one of those things but not all five (of the five observables).

Sean asks about Roswell...

But the dog needs to poop so I'll be back!

37 Dog is in a "don't touch me mood" so back to Lue, Sean & Jay...

Sean: When you talk Roswell, are you talking publicly available data or something we're not privy to?

Lue: I can go into lot of detail on that bc it crosses the line of my NDA. What I have access to now is not

38 Lue: something I can elaborate on. At some point in the future, maybe? If things keep moving in the direction that they are, "it's going to become increasingly evident that several of us that were part of AATIP are still heavily engaged in this topic in a capacity that may not

39 Lue: "necessarily be readily available to the public. We are very much, still...very patriotic, we wanna do the right thing, we wanna help. And so, don't be surprised if certain people affiliated w/AATIP & other efforts may be working behind the scenes now to try to

40 Lue: "continue this conversation."

Jay refers 2 "Wonders in the Sky" by Vallee & Aubeck & how UFOs interacting w/us may go back, potentially, millennia. We have pretty of data that suggests that large-scale warfares often seems to attract surveillance
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42 Jay: by UAPs/UFOs and relate phenomena. Any thoughts or potential concerns of UFOs being drawn out in Eastern Europe & Russia right now? And can you foresee the possibility of obvious UFO activity in war zones undermining public confidence in any way?

43 Lue: "(sigh) I mean, it's possible. We haven't seen any overt involvement...This is a very emotionally-charged topic for a lot of people, right? If someone says, 'These things are benign! They're here to help us, they're here to help us stop annihilating ourselves.' Let's take

44 Lue: "that argument for just one second, if I may. In 1945, we instantaneously converted the biomass of over 500,000 people from a solid state to a gaseous state. We vaporized human beings using an atomic bomb. Two of them, in fact: Hiroshima & Nagasaki. 13 kilotons & roughly

45 Lue: "22-some kilotons, respectively, & ended the lives, both short-term & long-term, of over half a million people. Nowhere did the UAPs stop that. Nowhere did the UAPs stop our development into the nuclear age. In fact, nowhere did UAPs stop us from going to war in WWII, or

46 Lue: "Korean War or Vietnam. They haven't stopped us right now w/Ukraine. They haven't stopped Covid, they haven't stopped global climate change, they haven't stopped global famine. So, to suggest that a UAP may be here for the benefit mankind, that really has yet to be seen.

47 Lue: "We haven't seen any. What we HAVE seen is absolute prepping of the battlefield. We've seen things looking at our military capabilities & nuclear capabilities. That we have seen. What does that mean? We don't know yet. So, I say that just as a word of caution for anybody

48 Lue: "out there who wants to follow the strain of...they're here & they wanna sing Kumbaye and teach us. Well, okay...maybe but they haven't really done anything YET, overtly, to help our species out in a way that we can publicly recognize. So, the real question is, 'OK, then

49 Lue: "'why are they here?' Right? Maybe they're natural, maybe they're just here to observe, maybe they're just like us, right? They're not gonna interfere. When we go to the middle of the Congo and watch the big, silverback gorillas...when they fight & they beat their chest,

50 Lue: "we don't necessarily interfere, right? When we're filming a documentary in Africa & the cheetah chasing the antelope, & the cheetah tears into it, the cameraman doesn't get involved. He's just documenting what's happening (I would try to save the antelope! ~Joe).

52 Lue: "So that's a possibility. We just simply don't know." And as far as Jay's Q about the Ukraine, Russia and potentially more UAP activity in the future? "I can't answer that question. I wouldn't be surprised if there is increased interest in what we are doing to each other,

53 Lue: "but I'm not convinced yet that anything is going to happen to stop it. I think that's gonna be up to us to try to figure out."

If I use quotations, it's pretty close to word for word. I may take out things like, "you know" and such.

"can't go into a lot of detail..."

54 Sean: Go back 2 WW2 & foo fighters & nuclear reactors & sites, but they haven't done anything 2 stop it (well, except 4 disabling & enabling nukes here & in Ukraine). We decimated the Marshall Islands w/nukes. Is that a place we've seen a lot of UAPs?

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55 Lue: I'm not aware of any specific reporting but I AM aware of alleged (UAP) reporting around Chernobyl, Fukushima & possibly Three Mile Island. And other nuclear-related locations that I can't talk about. That's interesting/curious.

56 Lue: Don't know about Bikini Atoll bc there's not a whole lot of persistent surveillance out there. There does seem 2B some hotspots like Catalina Isle & other places. Lots of discussions on...Why? Lots of potential reasons but don't exactly know yet.

bikiniatoll.info/history-of-bik…

57 The key may be to look @ other hotspots & try to identify commonalities. For example, look at 5 hotspots where there's a lot of UAP activity. Do u have commonalities in the soil or the geological formations? Or is there something there from a mineral or technical perspective?

58 Sean: U familiar w/Earth Lights? When u say this might be natural, I think of that.

Lue: U refer 2 them as spook or ghost lights. Marfa, Tx (The Marfa Lights), Joplin, Mo. Very common. Indigenous/Aboriginal people have been reporting them 4 millennia.
inamidst.com/lights/earth

59 (When I hear Lue saying these might be natural to our planet, I think more along of lines of another intelligence based here and that goes about its business, not paying too much attention to us, unless it needs to. Just a thought. ~Joe)

60 Sean: Any connection to those lights and UAPs?

Lue: Possibly.

Sean: Any chance you can share one of your own personal experiences w/UAP or paranormal?

Lue: It's tempting but I don't want to prejudice the jury. Maybe some other time. Doesn't matter that I think .

61 Lue: What matter is what the facts & the data suggest. People in ufology? Even everybody thinks it matters what they think and it doesn't. The phenomenon doesn't give a DAMN what you think or what I think or what anybody else thinks. People that make a living/cottage industry,

62 Lue: "by providing a narrative for people: 'I know & I'm the only one that knows.' Well, you know what? Forgive my language but you're full of shit (That's almost as good as when he said Colonel Susan Gough doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.).

63 Lue: "You need to go back and pick up another hobby because you're a distraction to this, you're not helping. You're actually...you wanna know why we haven't had any progress in the last 75 years? Look in the mirror because you have been holding it back because of that

64 Lue: "nonsensical way of looking at things. We have to avoid that temptation of providing answers (Great, bc I have none!😀) because we don't have them yet. I'll tell you right now, Lue Eilzondo isn't smart enough to figure it out. We need smart people on board. We need

65 Lue: "academia & scientists & technologists & governments, we need everybody on board. Philosophers, theologians, sociologists, psychologists...bc this topic is just as much about us as a species as it is about anything else. I mean, the way we look at things may not be

66 Lue: "the right way even to try to process what this really is about. I mean, we may be our worst enemy when it comes to this topic bc we...psychologically, we're not even asking the right questions."

67 Lue answers a question from the chat from Terry: What questions should we be asking? - Well, I think we should be asking all the questions. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. The problem is when we provide answers that we don't know. My advice is to continue asking

68 Lue: any and all questions that you have but recognizing that we probably don't have a lot of the answers we're seeking. In fact, some of the questions we ask may not be, necessarily, even valid questions. Doesn't man that they're not important or worthy of discussion.

(Doesn't mean...)

69 Lue: Case in point. When I was in Cali, working on Unidentified. Spent a lot of time in Hollywood. I'm not a Hollywood guy. First thing people would say when they came up to me was: What do you do? Not, who are you and how are you? Is it a valid question?

70 Lue: Sure, but it's probably not as an appropriate question as...how are ya? It seemed to be very transactional & was to assert, in their own mind, where we fall on the racking & stacking. Is there something I can do for them? Maybe they're above me on the social ladder &

71 Lue: they don't have to deal with me? In other parts of the country, they don't care what you do (I've had lots of people ask me what I do for a living in the various places I've lived in N.Y., Florida, Los Angeles, and a few other short-term stops. ~Joe), they just wanna know

72 Lue: how you're doing. So it's okay to ask all the questions, but some questions may be a little bit more fruitful pursuit than others. Not saying there are any bad questions but there may be some questions we haven't even thought to ask yet.

73 Jay: "Some people have recently referenced work by people like Don Hoffman, who wrote, 'The Case Against Reality' & this idea within consciousness that we've evolved w/kind of blinders on. That we don't necessarily see objective reality bc we don't see

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74 Jay: the IR (infrared) range, we don't hear as well as dogs do, etc. That we've evolved mainly to eat & procreate, & anything that might spook us or might be outside the range of what we normally need, has been filtered out. Thoughts on that? And, your quote on @TOEwithCurt:

75 Jay: "How do we pull ourselves out of a human paradigm?"

Lue: Asking a fish to think like a bird is going to be pretty hard bc a fish lives under water & a bird flies. In some cases, it's probably impossible for a fish to relate to a bird, but there are examples where a fish

76 Lue: can maybe, kind of, begin to experience that. You have a flying fish that can leap out of the water & with its modified twins, can glide & skip across the surface of the water for quite a significant distance. It's not a bird but for that very brief moment, it's flying.

77 Lue: We need to think more like a flying fish, rather than just a fish, as a species. We need to be prepared to suspend any preconceived notions we have & be ablate ask questions that maybe don't seem, at least, initially, to be very relevant, but might wind up holding some

78 Lue: of the keys to the kingdom. It's hard to do bc, as a human species, we don't have any real reference of doing that. So, how to do that? Part of it is to bring on board sociologists & human anthropologists that can look at the last time human beings were faced w/something

79 like this. Maybe like when we learned, via Galileo's observations/telescope, that the earth was not the center of the solar system. Big pill to swallow but it turned out to be true. We had to kind retool the way we think about things to incorporate this new information. There

80 are examples in history where we've had to completely re-change the way we look at things and I think maybe drawing upon those previous experiences & seeing how we handled it last time. And what were the questions we asked in order to come up with this new paradigm?

81 Lue: Maybe that's part of the trick. The old question that the general wants to know when the thing (UFO) lands: Do I extend my hand out in friendship or do I point an M-16 at its head? The answer may be neither. Both may be the wrong answer. The very question is flawed, it's

82 Lue: not accurate. And we need to teach our elected officials & our policy makers that there may be other options to consider, rather than just a binary yes or no. That's why we need an academic advisory board, with some REALLY qualified people, out-of-the-box thinkers, that

83 Lue: are willing to challenge the system in a positive way & really get people thinking in a way that we're maybe not used to thinking.

Sean: Chances we can reason w/something non-human & maybe more intelligent than us is probably next 2 zero.

Lue: We do it all the time,

84 Lue: since the time we were a child. We put human anthropomorphism in everything. Look at a child with stuffed animals & Disney movies where they take cars and give them personalities & character & a storyline. It's almost in our human nature. One of the first things a baby

85 recognizes is its mother's face and sounds. It's pattern recognition, it's a survival technique for our species. Not saying it's a bad thing. It led us to where we are here today and we probably owe, to some degree, our survival as a species, bc of it. But it's also, perhaps,

86 Lue: limiting us in being able to look beyond something...if you're talking about something that is not human, then how to we do it, right? We assign human ch characteristics and motivations to out dogs, our cats. It's natural and normal. I talk to my four German Shepards as

87 Lue: my kids all the time. I'm just as guilty of it. But we have be able to look at this a little bit differently. We're dealing with something...there's a VERY good possibility it is not human. And if it's not human, then you kind of have to look at things....well, there's a

88 Lue: possibility it's not gonna think like us, it's not gonna process data like us, it's not gonna come to the same conclusions as us, it might have different motivations. It might have NO motivations. Motivations might not be part of the calculus.

89 Lue: People say, "Why are they here?" Well, maybe why isn't the right question. Maybe it's, "How?" So, it's tricky & that's why we need people & that's why I always say my opinion doesn't matter. What matters is what the consensus says. Let's get everybody together, the right

90 Lue: minds to have the convo & let's see what we collectively come up with.

Jay: Some think @GalileoProject1 (GP) consists of the right minds. U anticipate any data coming out from GP?

Lue: I'm very hopeful 4 Avi Loeb & GP. He's managed to bring on some remarkable people.

91 Lue: I'm the least intellectual person of that group. Jacques Vallee is on there & some really big, heavy-hitter scientists, & I think it will continue to grow. I think they've got a wonderful shot at shedding additional light on this. But...

92 Lue: With crawl, walk and run, we're probably still slithering on the floor & not even at the crawl stage yet. But we're getting there. They're creating a capability to identity & track this objects and hopefully true to analyze them. They're using real tech & real software

92 Lue: capabilities to try to ascertain the difference between a balloon, a 737 on its way to LAX, a bird, a drone, a meteor coming in. And I think the more of these that we proliferate, I think the much better chance of collecting some real data. And I really wanna congratulate

93 Lue: Avi and his colleagues. If they achieve success, it would be one of the greatest discoveries in mankind's history. That's a Nobel Prize. I think it's an excellent start & I'm very hopeful that they're gonna achieve success but even more happy that academia is beginning to

94 Lue: have the conversation. There's a university in Germany & in the US that are having a curriculum on UAP. Having convos at some of the most reknown institutions on this topic. I won't say which ones. I'll let them have that convo. But they're taking this topic seriously.

95 Lue: Now, bc of that, we have a responsibility, especially this community, we really put our best foot forward. At times, the mainstream media has put some supposed expert on the news, it turns out the person makes a complete ass out of themselves. Thats not helpful.

96 Lue: We have to make sure we do our now due diligence. That's why AI capability we're developing is so important. When u have 99.9% degree of certainty something that ur looking @ is not an aircraft, & it's not one of ours & it's probably not foreign, now you've got real data.

97 Lue: You have to avoid crying wolf or falsely being a Paul Revere. The British are coming! You damn well better make sure the British are coming, otherwise...you've got one shot to do it right & a hundred shots to do it wrong. So, you gotta be extra careful & extra diligent.