Thread by @TheUfoJoe

1 I'll focus only on #UFO talk #lehto

Chris: ATFLIR pod is 550 lbs, or heavier. (Online says 420 lbs)

Lue: If they're pulling 4 Gs, ATFLIR is 4 times heavier. From a physics perspective, instantaneous acceleration is really hard 2 pull off. Some UAP are pulling 600, 700, 800 Gs

https://twitter.com/chrisotis78/status/1497630602048282632

2 Side Note: (Michael Via told me that Paul Hill (author of Unconventional Flying Objects) are NOT engaging in instantaneous acceleration. But it appears that way. More on that at a near-future date. ~Joe)

3 Lue: We tend to look at, certainly in military perspectives and classic science as you learn in school, and in Newtonian physics. Any object in motion, tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. Force = Mass x Acceleration. Fascinated that ur (@TheSkateCase)

4 Lue: talking about an object in space-time where both its past and its future, in space-time, has something to do with the maneuverability. That's something our scientists DID look at and ARE looking at. It's certainly perplexing. Current standard model of physics don't

5 Lue: allow us 2 wrap our heads around what we're observing. Anything we would have had, certainly biologically, would have been turned whatever is inside, 2 pudding. Compares it to a dragster doing a 1/4 mile in just under 4 secs. That G Force is literally detaching the retina.

6 Lue: They're getting corneal bleeds and concussions. Basically, damage consisted w/some sort of head trauma from the acceleration.

Alexei goes over his theory again that includes energy coming into, that's creating the object, or energy being released from the object as its

7 Alexei: manifesting within our perception. In order 2 have that type of instantaneous acceleration, you need to move the past & the future at the same time, which I call Node of Manifesting Matter. (Sorry if I get some of this wrong. Trying to focus on Lue today. No offense).

8 #ufo - Lue: If I throw this iPhone, I have to put energy into it to do it. Ur saying that the phone itself, inherently, also has energy? You're saying there is other energy, whether it's creating friction as it's going through the air...there is other energy around that doesn't

9 Lue: seem obvious to most folks when we're talking about physics? - Alexei says yes to all.

Lue: Lue talks Hal Puthoff, his colleague & a really, really good friend, & Eric Davis (and a few other scientists) did work for AATIP on zero-point energy.
Since I'm not a physicist,

10 Lue: can you explain zero-point energy or vacuum energy?

Alexei: It's the energy of creation. Think of it as the ether. From what I understand, our entire 4-dimension perception of reality is being manifested from a 5th dimension, which essentially is an energetic vortex.

11 Alexei: That energy that we experience has to do with our frame of motion. If you were to, essentially, tunnel into denser realms of experience, that's where higher & is higher energies exist.

Lue: When you say...can you say in lay terms...can you distill it down. What

12 Lue: do you mean by higher energies? Try to explain it as if I'm a four-year old. (Thank you, Lue!😁I'm a science dummy, too. ~Joe)

Alexei: Energy is related to frequency & also velocity. The faster something goes, the more energy it has & also, the higher the frequency

13 Alexei: something is, the more energy it contains. When you think about a vortex, in any orbits of any system, if ur further away, u need to go faster. But when it comes to creating a frequency, within our experience, the closer you are to center, is the higher the frequency.

14 Alexei: If you think we live in a black hole, as some people are suggesting, then the closer you are to center would be the higher frequencies, which ultimately are higher energies.

Lue: That's well above my pay grade! (Me, too!)

15 @chrisotis78: I've worked with Alexei but I have a separate theory that I think relates. It's more observational of what we see of the physical universe. Alexei's is more of how it would work or the engine. behind it. My theory is based on size.

16 Lehto: Think of nuclear reactions. There's intense power at the very small levels (Lue gives a thumbs up), obviously. And we were able to tap into that, after Einstein, in WW2 and we immediately used it for weapons (CL laughs, Lue smiles).

17 Lehto: I don't fault any ET life, if they are here, and happen to give us tech, for not giving us any matter of propulsion (Well, I'm pretty sure we DO have some of their tech, gifted or crashed. ~Joe), which would destroy half the Earth.

18 Lue: It's kind of like giving a loaded shotgun to a gorilla (We being the gorillas. But maybe the tech we allegedly acquired was purposely created to be impossible to reverse engineer by humans? As in it's really not the same tech "they" use? ~Joe)

19 Lue: Probably not a wise idea, especially when that gorilla doesn't know how to use it & has kind of has a history of being violent towards his...friends.

Lehto talks dimensions, time & frequency... Alexei talks dark matter and how matter forms around dark matter.

20 Lue: We now see scientists, physicists, astrophysicists and Avi Loeb, some other individuals & some academic institutions starting a curriculum on #UFOs. How do we break down the barrier for the academic & scientific communities so they can look at a topic with a long

21 Lue: history of being associated with stigma, taboo & pseudo-science & look at something fair-minded, objective & logically. There's a lot of baggage associated with this topic. Ask me how I know, as a former intelligence officer...I'm not a #UFO guy. It just so happens it

22 Lue: was my job for a while. The IC is one thing. It's already a tough nut to crack. But the academic community is a whole other mountain & in some cases, harder to crak. What would be your advice to your colleagues to look at this topic?

23 Alexei explains how he would do that and you can watch it @ link below. Cued up.



(I would play them the best Lue & Mellon interview, & combine it w/a Puthoff lecture, Davis interview & a few books like "UFOs & Government" by Swords & @rpowell2u. ~Joe)

24 Lue: I struggle w/this. One of the observables, & I hate using it bc it's a bad term, but the vernacular is anti-gravity. We're talking something having the ability 2 defy the natural effects of Earth's gravity that are beyond the fundamentals of flight: Thrust, lift, drag &

25 Lue: weight. U can create a lifting body w/thrust & can now fly. Or, thru buoyancy/lighter than air, helium, w/a hot-air balloon. Or, sheer ballistics. Blow something out of a tube w/enough power & it's gonna go up 4 a while, until it comes down, unless u reach escape velocity

26 Lue: Before we can ask...How is it possible, let me ask u, Alexei, what is gravity? Dropping a pen just shows an effect of gravity. Some have speculated it's a particle, like a graviton. Some say it's a wave. Others say it's a field & an effect of mass, perturbing space-time.

27 Lue: What is gravity?

Alexei: A result of space preparation & the synchronization of light being manifested from that 5th dimensional vortex.

The rest of his answers is cued up at link below.

28 Lue: Fair to say gravity is poorly understood and poorly explains bc the existing notions of gravity haven't been...I'm constantly asking physicists to explain it. A lot of times they say...Well, it's not a thing. It's a relationship between two things & there is some sort of

29 Lue: synchronization going on, whatever that synchronization is. It's very poorly understood. If somebody wanted to create something on Earth, hypothetically - and this is not a trick question bc we really don't know - if someone wanted to defy the natural effects of Earth's

30 Lue: gravity, what are some of the ways someone might do that? People talk about the Casmir effect and electro-gravitics. Can you go thru some of what the options might be?

Listen to the answer here, cued up:

31 Lue: The scientific community is starving for new ideas. I can tell you that from first-hand accounts of talking with them.

Lue: Let's do a hypothetical: Let's say, all of a sudden, you pop into existence & there's nothing around you. You have no idea, in relationship to

32 Lue: anything, how big you are, how small you are, even if you're moving or not bc u have nothing to relate to. Now Chris pops into existence & it's just you two in the Universe. You look @ each other & say, 'Well, I don't know how far you are away. You seem here...but really,

33 Lue: "'I could be really huge & u could be light years away or we could be, really, really small, right next 2 each other. There's still no way 2 know.' So then u get a bunch of other points, & then you start looking at each other & u say, 'Well, there's something to relate

34 Lue: "'to: You're over there, I'm over here. You're actually moving away from me, so there's a sense of motion & speed, to some degree, but it's relative.' Bc, at the end of the day, with all of the matter in the Universe, you could still look up & say, 'Wow, the Universe is

35 Lue: "'really big & atoms are really small,' but in reality, that's just in perspective to us bc we don't know how big or how small the Universe really is, compared to a super-verse."

36: Lue: How small can something be before it no longer exerts any type of gravitational effect? Case in point: A black hole exerts a lot, at the localized area, a lot of gravitational pull. The Sun does, too, but to a lesser degree. And Jupiter, which is super-massive, also has

37 Lue: a big gravitational field, but lesser than The Sun. The Earth has a gravitational field...lesser than Jupiter. We as human beings, if we were sitting out in space, you & I, Alexei, at five feet part from each other...eventually, we would come together bc the gravity

38 Lue: in me & the gravity in you are gonna bring us together. And I suspect the same as even with, hypothetically, a cell. Take a cell here and a cell here, in space, & eventually they'll touch. But there's comes a point, perhaps, & I don't know...does it go all the way down to

39 Lue: the proton, does it go down to the electron? Or does it go down to the muons and the bosons? Or does it go smaller than that? At what point, does something no longer, either, affected by, or, create its own, gravitational field? Or is it the fact that it's matter, it

40 Lue: will always have, no matter how small it is?

Responses to Lue at the link below...

41 Lehto refers to @EricRWeinstein saying that gravity is exceptionally weak on us. In CL's view, it comes from a higher dimensional kind of force.

Lue: I've heard that before, that gravity is leaching from somewhere else bc it should be much, much stronger when compared to

42 Lue: the other fundamental forces: the electromagnetic force, the nuclear force & whatnot.

Lue: We are made of matter, which is made of cells & atoms & atoms are made out of quarks and bosons, etc... But what's the basic fundamental element that's non-divisible? What is that

43 Lue: made of? We look @ matter as something being solid bc we live & this macro level, & I look my phone & pen & glasses. When u get down to the smallest, smallest...where that matter can no longer be subdivided into something else - it's either there or it's not. What Is It?

44 Responses to...What is It? Cued up....

45 Lehto mentions that with folks who have multiple personality disorder, if one personality claims to be blind, the person is effectively blind when that personality is in control. In the next tweet is a link to a story where the opposite occurred. A woman was blind but some of

46 her other personalities could see. Amazing.

"One explanation, that B.T. was 'malingering,' or lying about her disability, was disproved by an EEG test. When B.T. was in her two blind states, her brain showed none of the electrical responses to visual stimuli that

47 "sighted people would display — even though B.T.’s eyes were open and she was looking right at them."

washingtonpost.com/news/morning-m…

48 Lehto mentions a case where a child could allegedly communicate telepathically with her doctor, even though all she had was a brain stem. Lehto says he's good friends with the doctor who shared the story in confidence.

49 They discuss that story at the link, cued up...

50 Lue: When people ask how to describe something beyond the 3rd dimension, I often told people, "Look, in the 3-dimensional world, we have three axes: x, y and z. Meaning, in lay terms, I can go forwards and backwards...left and right... & up and down.

51 Lue: And a variation of those allows me to have any point in a 3-dimensional space. A 4th dimension might be, for example, if you were a human being and you didn't go anywhere, you just got smaller. You started to withdraw, you started to go inwards. You're not going outwards

52 Lue: in any particular direction, you're actually going IN to the Universe. That may be a very rudimentary way to explain what a 4th dimension could be experienced like. You're not going forward, back, left or right or up or down, at all. You're actually going inside.

53 Lue: That's a very crude way to explain it, that people can kind of conceptualize and say, "Oh, I see, I'm not really going in any direction. I'm actually getting smaller," and that in itself is another dimension. Because right now, my body occupies this dimension.

54 Lue: Well, if my body wasn't here & I could experience that space, now that could be, potentially. another example of a dimension. We know so little about our own Universe, planet, psychology, species and human consciousness, & it's frustrating to me when people look at this,

55 Lue: what's in front of us, and say, "This is it. This IS the Universe," when we know that 99% of the Universe is beyond our ability to interact with. In scale of things, it's either too big or too small, or it's just simply beyond, like you said, the 5 fundamental senses in

56 Lue: which we judge our environment: Touch, taste, hear, smell, whatnot. We tend to think if we can't perceive it with our 5 senses, it's not real. And yet, this iPhone's living proof [that's not true]. It sees the Universe in Wi-Fi & in GPS & cell signal and AM/FM. Imagine if

57 Lue: u had cell phone vision & u could see the world through a cell phone, not just electro-optically but through ALL of the ranges of the electromagnetic spectrum. Your perception of the Universe would probably be considerably different. U would relate to things & see things

58 Lue: that, right now, we have NO clue about. Just simply bc we don't have the natural equipment to detect it & to interact with it.

~~~

Lue: Why is it that we collectively, as a species, tend to identify as some specific identify, whether it is national, or religious, or

59 Lue: organizationally, or socially? We tend to group ourself into these little herds or packs, if u will, & self identify. Is that what's holding us back from experiencing the bigger part of the Universe? At the end of the day, we identify as, "So this is me," but in reality,

60 Lue: it's not, "me," it's "we," because I'm a collective of microorganisms. In math, the sum can never be greater than its constituent parts. But, is the human being, or sentient life, just that? Is it that you now reach a critical point, a critical mass of collectives,

61 Lue: organisms, of cells, organizationally, where, all of a sudden, the "we" now identifies as a single organism, as "me"? And now, all of a sudden, the collection of all these cells that make up @LueElizondo, something happens, it reaches this critical mass, where all of a

62 Lue: sudden, it becomes sentient, self-aware, and now it is truly a single organism? Is there some sort of connective tissue, so to speak - obviously proverbially - amongst those smaller, living organisms that now create a single consciousness? The planet is an organism.

63 Lue: The atoms that are in me are the same atoms in the Earth and in the Moon and everything else. Hypothetically, is this where some people have the notion that everything in the Universe is connected?

Responses...

64 Lue: I'm gonna dare to say something that sometimes tends to be a bad word and sometimes it's not. We talked about matter, the physical universe, gravity, sentience & maybe even what consciousness is about. But where does spirituality come into play? (The S word ~Joe)

65 Lue: I don't usually hypothesis or offer my opinions on things like this bc I simply don't know. But if we're gonna go down the rabbit hole, let's indulge or humor me for a moment. Is there something then beyond just interacting with a field? Is there another additional

66 Lue: element 2 sentience that's indelible (cannot be removed or washed away. ~Joe), that is not necessarily regulated to a physical world. And it is something else. I use "spirituality" loosely bc I don't know what else to call it. I don't mean light candles & burn incense.

67 Lue: I mean true spirituality, what is that extra ingredient. Let's look at the emotion of love. Illogical and doesn't make sense. And yet, it's a driving force for humans. We do things that are against the interests of our own biology to risk our lives to save somebody else,

68 Lue: bc of love & maternal instinct. You can't measure or see it & we don't have any instrument to measure it...yet most people agree that it is a real emotion. What are your thoughts on that?

Responses:

69 Lue: Is the physical world more real and natural or is the spiritual world more real and natural?

ArtisanTony (who has me blocked for some reason. I don't recall interacting w/him but maybe I just forgot?): Why can't they both be equally real?

Lue: They can.

70 Lue: I had a really good convo with a dear friend of mine but I won't say who. The guy is very much into philosophy & very qualified. He said...Imagine you have this huge cauldron/vat of boiling pure copper at the US mint & they're gonna make a bunch of pennies for the month.

71 Lue: Those pennies wind up going into circulation. Over time, (thanks to entropy) those pennies start to rust, oxidize & take on the patina of their environment. Once those pennies have outlasted their usefulness, they go back to the mint & get melted down.

72 Lue: (I can see where he's going w/this. It's an analogy of humans & our souls and maybe reincarnation. Let's see). The slag & oxidation is scraped off the top & those pennies go back to the hot cauldron of collectiveness, back to the one. To the big, hot pool of pure copper,

73 Lue: only to potentially go back out again to make another penny and be recycled. I fond that very interesting but don't necessarily subscribe to it one way or the other (It sounds like Semivan. ~Joe)

Alexei on the physics of love, cued up.

74 Lue: Talks about creative delusion (Alexei's phrase) in humans. This notion that we are each individualistic & have our own peception of reality. Is that something natural to the human being, to create these delusions? Is it part of a protective or defense mechanism for the

75 Lue: species that we've developed? Do other animals in nature also have "creative delusion"?

Alexei responds...

76 Lue: Back to the analogy that we just pop into existence one day. Everything we have in our life & universe is based on what others tell you & this is how we learn from each other as a species. But if no one is there to tell you what stars are or planets, & there are no other

77 Lue: human beings around you, & you're just in space, looking around. You see points of light & you don't even know what list is? They're there. If we never have contact w/another human being, will our perception of the Universe be fundamentally different? Does the Universe

78 Lue: change once u have another human being in the calculus? If it's just u, brand new, POOF! What do we make of our state? Is there an ego, self awareness & self identity, if there's no one else around u 2 compare 2? Just u & the Universe.

Answers:

79 Lue: I think, therefore I am. But is it also possible, I am & therefore, I think? Is it that this is created 4 something inside 2 reside & experience the Universe? Or, the fact that this exists, now there is something inside to experience the Universe?

80 Lue: So this (our body?) is a container, for something else, instead of...the Coca-Cola exists bc the Coke bottle exists, but what ur saying is the Coke bottle exists so the Coca Cola can exist.

81 Lue: Can Artificial Intelligence have a point where it has enough processes & computations where it too can become self aware? Meaning that now we've created a container for some sort of...is it possible for AI to be sentient?

82 AI responses below...

Lue: At what point does that sentience, that consciousness, where is it coming from?

83 Lue: "We are a carbon-based unit but if u have now a silicon-based unit, that can do the same processes, intellectually, that we do, basically replicate the brain, then at what point does that become a living, breathing, conscious sentient organism that is just like us,

84 Lue: "it's just not carbon based. And so, where does that come from and who decides that, okay...now, we're at a critical point where consciousness can now reside in THAT, instead of this flesh & blood vessel, I'm gonna put it in silicone & tin & nickel?"

85 Tony asks if this is a breadcrumb and Lue laughs and says...No! (I'm not so sure! ~Joe)

~~~

Lue: What is energy? Is it tangible?

Responses...

86 Lue: Some have speculated that humans evolving into AI w/sentience is the natural path of our evolution.

Lue: We don't even understand ourselves, how can we expect to understand something that is outside of our current understanding of our paradigm?

87 Lue: Maybe we WERE a worm & we've developed into what you see now?

Lue: Everything I've asked so far are hypotheticals. I don't subsribe one way or the other. Just having a "what ifs" philosophical discussion. Not trying 2 get spiritual or tie that to UAP. Just discussing

88 Lue: what it means to be human.

Lue: What makes you, YOU? What makes each one of us unique & where does that reside & what does that look like? Is it more common throughout the universe or is it strictly a human thing or a Universe thing?

89 Lue: "This is where I talk about mankind vs. mankinds. A lot of people have, over the years, speculated that what I meant by that. That's what I meant by that. What we use 2 define ourselves being human may not intrinsically be necessarily a human thing. It may be

90 Lue: "something much bigger, much broader."

~~~

Lue talks about his encounter with pilot whales and how they were using their sonar to look inside him and buddy, who was scuba diving with him.

"I think...we're very myopic. I think we have to understand, before we start

91 Lue "jumping 2 conclusions of saying, 'This is the way UFOs are & everything else,' we have a lot 2 learn. We really have a lot more questions than answers, @ this point & I personally think it's wonderful. I think it's fascinating. I'm OK not having all the answers right now.

92 Lue: For me, I'm OK by that & it actually, it keeps me rather humble on the topic bc of that.

Alexei asks about the demonic vs. angelic theories.

His full question cued up:

93 Lue summarizes what Alexei said...

Lue: What ur saying...in order for our reality to exist, there is another reality that our reality resides in. You can't have mass & matter without a space for that matter & mass to reside IN. It doesn't make sense. So, ur saying, in order

94 Lue: for our Universe to exist, there must have been a higher state or high level of reality in which our Universe was created?

Alexei: "U could say that, theoretically, if "they" are coming from electromagnetic vortices that are creating a stretching, crunching & twisting of

95 Alexei: "of space, that potentially...when an outer realm gets magnified 2 a point, that would be us perceiving an angelic or outer realm of experience. And when u have a point going bigger, that would be us experiencing something more on the demonic...I don't wanna use those

96 Alexei: "those words...but of a denser creation."

Lue: "I remember another conversation I'll share with u, where someone had mentioned the notion of the Universe being a little bit like a glass of champagne in a nice, fluted glass. Where our Universe is a bubble that exists

97 Lue: "within a multiverse, where there's other bubbles around our Universe, and the super-verse is the champagne, it's the liquid that those bubbles reside in, if you will, or that connective tissue. Universe, multi-verse, within a super-verse." This was just a philosophic

98 Lue: convo I had w/other people. "It was interesting for me to hear it relayed using that analogy bc at that point, I'm like, 'Oh, okay. Well, now I can visualize it, I can see it.' Again, probably a very poor analogy but it helped me try to understand the concept of what my

99 Lue: "friend was discussing.

Lehto: Are we on the right track with getting cameras systems out there?

Lue: There is no wrong track. Amy direction we go in is probably the right direction. "Ultimately, we're talking about human sociology & human anthropology & the way we look

100 Lue: "and think about the Universe & ourselves. And in order to understand something that is beyond that, we have to kind of relearn how to think, to some degree. We have to recognize that. We can't look at an exceptional problem using unexceptional ways of thinking. It's

101 Lue: "exceptional for a reason. My recommendation is cast a wide net & try to see what pops up. There is no wrong way to think about this. The only thing that's wrong is when people try to monopolize a conversation and tell people what to think. That, for me, is a problem.

102 Lue: "That, I think, is a no go & we see a lot of that in this community where people are trying to hijack the conversation & force a narrative. That, to me, is wrong. But, other than that, I think we should explore everything. I think we need the best & brightest, not just

103 Lue: "scientists, but academics & philosophers & theologians & get everybody onboard this train bc it's gonna take all us to try to figure this out & what it means to us. That's just my opinion."

104: Alexei - @TheSkateCase - holds up his book, "The Infinite Pool: Experience and Awareness" and says it contains his best theory on what's going on.

His website is:

loosheslabs.com

105 Lue: Respect has 2B earned to some degree. Unfortunately, there are individuals in this community who don't probably - "I don't want to say don't deserve the respect, but they have ulterior motives, & they're not interested in real, honest conversation. They're interested in

106 Lue: "driving a narrative, & for me, that's problematic. I don't think we're there yet, where we have a conclusive narrative. I think we all need to continue asking the questions that you are asking. I think your audience should continue to be courageous & ask the hard

107 Lue: "questions. I don't think the truth has anything to fear. I think it's liberating. I think the old saying, 'The Truth Shall Set You Free.' I believe that. And to me, I think we're living in fascinating times."

[END]