Thread by @barandbench

[Same Sex Marriage Hearing] DAY 3

#SupremeCourtofIndia to resume hearing a batch of 20 petitions seeking to legalise same sex marriage

5-judge Constitution bench to begin hearing today post 10:45 am

Track this thread for live updates👇 #samesexmarriage #LGBTQI #gayrights

DAY 1: Notions of man, woman, genitals do not define gender in absolute sense, Supreme Court says
rb.gy/jdv58

DAY 2: Argument that children of same-sex married couple will be impacted incorrect; gay, lesbian persons can already adopt individually: Supreme Court… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

DAY 3 Proceedings begin

5-judge constitution bench assembles

#Samesexmarriage #supremecourtofindia #LGBTQIA

Adv Arundhati Katju: as per seniority I have prepared a list as to who will argue and it does not include interveners.. it has the time that will be taken per counsel

#Samesexmarriage #supremecourtofindia #LGBTQIA

CJI DY Chandrachud: After Dr Singhvi, we will hear Sr Adv KV Vishwanathan.. the petitioners will have to end today. we have heard two senior counsels.. already... make sure by 4 pm petitioners complete in total. If I am having a telephonic conversation with my better half.. she… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

An IA is being mentioned

CJI : There can be 150 interventions..

Adv Karuna Nundy: please give a day to the intervenors

CJI. NO. We could have heard in 30 minutes... but we gave three days, so that is enough

#Samesexmarriage #supremecourtofindia #LGBTQIA

CJI: Dr Singhvi please wrap up your arguments in 45 minutes, Sr Adv KV Vishwanathan and Mr Ramachandran will please finish in 1.5 hours. Next week we will sit Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday like Ayodhya case, no miscellaneous days.. and we will hear throughout... the… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Kaul: you have to be bound by time. we are trying to wind it up. If you do not want then we will not. CJI is putting politely I will not

CJI: 16 hours of hearing means .. 4 complete days on one side..

#Samesexmarriage #supremecourtofindia #LGBTQIA

CJI: If constitution benches have to really go on then five judges have to leave their regular boards and that is why previously these benches were not formed. You do not know the pressure of listing cases and if we do not ration time then these constitution benches cannot be… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: Dr Singhvi your time starts now. Start.

Adv: I appear for a gay activist..

Justice Kaul: so there are 50 gay activists.. we have to hear all of them or what?

CJI: It cannot happen like that. thank you. Let us now with Dr Singhvi

#samesexmarriage

CJI: we know that summer vacations are going to be on this judgment, so just give us note on the submissions, we will read all of it. #samesexmarriage

SG Tushar Mehta: Monday this case will be heard.. Monday already cases are listed .. so many of them..

CJI: That is okay Solicitor..

SG: ofcourse your prerogative.. but we should be heard

CJI: have you ever seen us being unreasonable in this court

SG: No milord.. grateful… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: the legal heart of this case is interpretation... it is apt for courts to read in words to make the statute convention compliant.. a court can modify the meaning and hence both primary and secondary legislation.. #samesexmarriage

CJI: you are telling us to read into the statute and read the word spouse instead of man and woman or husband and wife.. but you say it was way back in 1954 when the law was brought in to protect people who want to be in matrimony without getting into personal laws... but you say… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: from institutional capacity we have to ask ourselves that if we are doing something which is contrary to the intent of the statute and not end up rewriting the statute which is the legislative domain and as long as we are not straddling that line.. that is fine..… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: Looking at India we have reached intermediate stage.. by decriminalizing homosexuality it contemplates that same sex couples can stay in stable marriage like relationships and this was contemplated. Not just a physical relationship but a stable emotional relationship.. once… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: What happened in the UK is not what happened in India. HRA was to meet the treaty obligations and for us it was the principles of constitution which is above the treaty. Here were are not utilising the constitution to read down or strike down statute we are expanding the… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: We have never been bound by an originalist interpretation of the constitution then should we be bound by originalist interpretation of a statute which is below the constitution? to put it bluntly that is relationship of man and woman so integral to the statute that… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: Regarding age, whichever same sex couples is involved, that minimum age will apply. 18 and 21 ... Thereby no stitching needed on legislative cloth. In 99 percent cases the gender can be decided on the gender professed by the trans. Like if she is man but is on feminine… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Kaul: in heterosexual relationship there can be rape.. then how can there be no scenario that same issue does not apply to a homosexual relationship.. so the question is we say that marriage can be registered under SMA but what about all other future eventualities..… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: if the bench recognizes same sex marriage under special marriage act, this court will recognise marriage under this act...

Justice Kaul: i am saying laws to heterosexual relationship will also apply to homosexual relationship?

Justice Kohli: there are many shades on… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: there are Parsi marriages, Christian marriages.. no other requires notice of prior intent to marry. This part in Special marriage act that intent has to be declared to marry you has to be stated.. at the constitutional level..

SG: This is a different issue.. we have… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: this notice and objection aspect is the violation of my personal, decisional autonomy. #samesexmarriage

Justice Narasimha: was notice and objection there in the 1872 act?

Singhvi: I will check and definitely yes since this a relic of the raj

Justice Bhat: this is only based on patriarchy #samesexmarriage

Justice Bhat: these laws were made when women did not have an agency

CJI: this is like laying them open for invasion by the society including superintendent of police, district magistrate etc.

Singhvi: this aspect of notice and objection is completely disproportionate and it directly infringes upon the privacy of individuals and it is discriminatory regime.... because it is only under SMA and personal laws do not have this and this should be struck down for both same… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI : In media one judgment we developed on the aspect of proportionality...

Dr Singhvi: With this I conclude Milord.

Reads a tribute to Irish poet, playwright & novelist Oscar Wilde, who died in Paris, 1900

"And alien tears will fill for him Pity's long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn...." #SupremeCourt

The second session of Day 3 hearing in #SameSexMarriage case begins #Supremecourtofindia

Senior Adv Raju Ramachandran begins: way back in 1956 the Justice Vivian Bose said the constitution exists for poor, the butcher, the baker, the cradle maker.. then in 1982 Randhir Singh a constable came before this court for equal pay and Justice Chinappa Reddy noted that he was… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Ramachandran: Kajal is a baker and Bhavna is an accountant... this is the same baker whom Justice Vivian Bose referred to. The statement on urban elitism was incorrect and insensitive.. what we seek is also a protection from their natal families.. they do not have understanding… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Ramachandran: First is interpretation of section 4 of special marriage act.. then freedom of conscience.. then is the aspect of notice... where the submissions made will be fortified with reference to historical background as to how these notice provisions came into being and how… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Ramachandran: any judgment of this court will be incomplete unless a protocol is put in place like how heterosexual couples seek protection from khap panchayats #samesexmarriage

Ramachandran: if its a male male union or a transman transman union then 21 years will apply to them and 18 years will apply to female female, transwoman transwoman relation or transgender transgender relation who identifies as woman #samesexmarriage

Ramachandran: originally there was no codified law of marriage in india and then need was felt for law of marriage for british in India and that contemplated marriage only among Christians..then comes keshab chandra sen and Bramho samaj... then they demanded a secular law of… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Ramachandran: if my fundamental right to marry is read into article 21 then i cannot be asked to give notice of the exercise of my fundamental right at a future date in the context of a notice regime which is designed to enable parental families and other busy bodies to create… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: If the motive is to curb void marriages then the notice and objection regime under special marriage act is the least restrictive measure to achieve that objective.

CJI: There is a very real likelihood that this section will disproportionately impact if one member is from a marginalized or minority community and this it impacts one of the most vulnerable sections of our society #specialmarriageact

Justice Kohli: this is true for heterosexual couples as well

Ramachandran: this should be struck down for all since its retrograde and obnoxious

CJI: Regarding the protocol we have to be careful that we dont empower these officers to possess personal and private information of these individuals but we have to see that they are protected, yes #samesexmarriage

Sr Adv KV Vishwanathan: if we can be sons, daughters, sisters, faither in law, uncle, aunt, and partners... then what holds us to give marital status to the same sex couples... it is only the sexual orientation which is beyond my control and it is not in conformity with… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Vishwanathan: marriage is coming together of two souls and to be told that it is to be looked at from procreation purpose is completely fallacious

Vishwanathan: here the prayer is to make the law being struck down... the court is reading it down to save the statute. so here there is no encroachment of the legislative space. this will ensure we are not looked at as anathema to the society #samesexmarriage

Vishwanathan : now on the aspect of transgender persons. In transgender persons, the three categories - the male manifested gender, the female manifested gender- they have the right to maintain that manifestation. Obergefell v. Hodges held that marriage cannot be looked at from… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Vishwanathan: Central Adoption Regulation Authority rules do not permit adoption by a single member..unless they are married

CJI: What happens when there is a heterosexual couple when there is domestic violence..what kind of impact on children.. so much for being heterosexual.. what about father coming back home drunk thrashing up the mother and asking money for alcohol? there is nothing absolute...… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Vishwanathan: gay, lesbian, LGBTQIA people are adept at raising children compared to heterosexual couples..

CJI: It is basically a host of rights which being married provides to a LGBTQIA couple

CJI: Populous countries like China is losing on demographic dividend since older generations are not seeking to procreate or have more children.. talk to people close to you.. who works for you.. you will see that they often want one child.. my chauffeur has a daughter.... this… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: please tell us the reliefs you seek?

Vishwanathan: to save the special marriage act statute, the principle of equalisation can be adopted. reference here is to the Sikkim old settlers association case.. on the age issue... the default age can be kept as 18 for the third… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI: We will ask Senior Advocate Geeta Luthra to be the nodal senior counsel so that time rationed and petitioners can finish on Monday #samesexmarriage

The constitution bench proceedings of Day 3 hearing in #SameSexMarriage case comes to an end

Hearing to resume on Monday. Mondays which are usually miscellaneous days will now have the constitution bench hearing.

#SupremeCourtofIndia