2/ compared to this 1/30,000 number for one, newly-discovered fatal side effect of the AZ vaccine recorded in Norway -- apparently being seen primarily in young people, though the article we're discussing doesn't give full details. But the true comparison is not with 1/15000 ...
3/ First, C19 topline mortality is highly misleading because many deaths being put in that bucket are linked either purely coincidentally, C19 being an extremely common, generally mild nosocomial infection now, or have multiple causes and are occurring in people who are ...
4/ already at death's door. What multiplier should we put into the C19 odds to allow for that? There is no perfect answer but Sweden's topline C19 mortality for 2020 was about 3X their excess mortality (see @HaroldofWorld for stats), so lets say 3X. We are now at 1/45000 ...
5/ But, even more importantly, the epidemic is on the decline in most countries and we can expect it to subside to almost nothing going into the summer. So, we need to adjust the odds to allow for the fact that C19 is mostly done for now. ...
6/ True, it will come back in the fall, as the disease is expected to become endemic & enter the background of seasonal respiratory infections. But, vaccine hesitancy is just that, hesitancy -- waiting for facts, instead of trusting highly politicized "Warp Speed" propaganda. ...
7/ Very likely, the next resurgence will be much milder than the current one as we've already been through the annual peak R0, so perhaps comparable to the rather trivial incidence we see in Asian countries, perhaps even less than that due to C19-specific immunity. ...
8/ Regardless, we will also have much more information about the efficacy & risks of the C19 vaccines in the fall than we do now. And, the T cell test kits just coming on line will be routine and cheap by then, so it will be easier for individuals to tell whether or not they ...
9/ are "COVID virgins" who might benefit from taking a vaccine. How should we adjust the odds ratio to allow for the fact that we are entering the low season? Simply eyeballing the Swedish charts and stats (which are fairly typical for Europe) suggests that C19 mortality to ...
10/ date is going be about 10X the mortality to come before the summer lull. So, that 1/45000 becomes 1/450000. On that basis, the odds of a person <60 dying from this one, newly-identified AZ side effect (and it's still early days to catalog these side effects) are about 15X ...
11/ worse than they are of succumbing to C19 in the next six to eight months. The picture is much worse for front line medical workers, because that 90% done estimate is going to be highly conservative for them, as C19 is a heavily nosocomial infection and saturation will be ...
12/ correspondingly more advanced in this cohort. So, for them, the dangers of the vaccine, even from just this one fatal side effect that wasn't supposed to happen -- and which the Brits are still denying -- may outweigh their risk from COVID by 50X or 100X.
13/ The reason for the oft-reported hesitancy about C19 vaccines by frontline workers is that many know that (a) COVID is not the bogeyman it's been made out to be by highly politicized, mendacious public messaging/propaganda campaigns and (b) vaccines, especially rushed ...
14/ vaccines, are not as safe as the public messaging makes them out to be & have in fact been associated with significant tragedies in the past, which drug companies & government "experts" have historically done their level best to minimize and cover up. smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/lon…
(Addendum: That's mortality for <60s, not total mortality or mortality for <50s.)
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@TimTravis2@AlexBerenson 1/ Depends on the technology used. A dead-virus vaccine would seem the closest to natural immunity in terms of producing a heterogenous response, although even that would not be as good because you wouldn't get the localized protection against emerging mutants.
@TimTravis2@AlexBerenson 2/ Not sure if any of the other candidates are dead virus vaccines. Supposedly, the narrowly-focused vaccines have the advantage of avoiding some of the worst triggers of the Vaccine Induced Enhancement which plagued the development of SARS vaccine, where prior vaccination turns
@TimTravis2@AlexBerenson 3/ what would normally be a mild respiratory infection into a life-threatening condition -- I understand in some of the experiments with the prototype SARS vaccine, all the ferrets that got the vaccine died on exposure to the coronavirus.
@EnjoyTheDecline 1/ My concern would be that the approval process has been rushed in order to field the vaccine in time to be relevant -- and then, likely only slightly relevant in the big picture -- for a disease that mostly represents a way of slightly accelerating death from old age, and for
@EnjoyTheDecline 2/ which hundreds of millions will have to be vaccinated. I would personally take a wait-and-see approach -- let's see what the real-world incidence of side effects is after this has been given to a few million human guinea pigs, and how serious an issue C19 remains after it
@EnjoyTheDecline 3/ has fallen into an endemic equilibrium -- i.e., is there much resurgence in the late fall of next year. Also, I'd like to have better ways of evaluating whether I likely have had the disease and developed significant immunity -- a number of papers have demonstrated that
@VanGennepD@ADreyzen@FatEmperor 1/ Herd immunity in general just refers to the check on the spread of a contagion produced by rising immunity depleting available susceptible individuals.
@VanGennepD@ADreyzen@FatEmperor 2/ The herd immunity threshold is mathematically the percentage of the population which must be immune for an epidemic to go from the growth phase to recession.
@VanGennepD@ADreyzen@FatEmperor 3/ Clearly the epidemic in Sweden (and many other places) has been in recession for months, viewed at the national level. That doesn't mean that it's in recession everywhere in the country, just that net-net, declines outweigh new growth as the virus percolates into new regions.
@DocMcQuinn First, 20% by antibodies means 60%-100% actual infected & recovered, based on recent studies that looked at what fraction of recovered have detectable T-cell & mucosal Ab but not serum Ab responses -- a finding that's also consistent with several other observations and studies.
@DocMcQuinn NYC showed 20%-25% IgG+ in two randomized surveys conducted by the NYS Dept of Health as far back as late April, so presumably the great majority of NYC residents have been infected by now -- not surprising, given their high death toll & the total collapse of their death curve.
@DocMcQuinn Stockholm blood donors were 30% positive for COVID-19-specific T cells in May (about 3X the percentage of seropositives) and the Swedish FHM estimated a few days ago that the number of infected is now about 40%, which seems reasonable given another couple of months have passed.