Thread by @redistrictAZ

Meeting with AZ Legislative leaders and @ArizonaIRC begins.

As the go through pro-forma beginnings - I will point out that any documents received from the AZ Legislature have not been made public. Nearly a year into operations they still act as if they have no official obligations of functional operations.

Minority Leaders Senator Rios, and Representative Reginald Bolding present. Majority Leader Speaker Bowers showing up at 1:00.

Senator Rios reading a letter (not yet made public). Calls out issues that raise concerns about fairness.
1- hiring of partisan operative Brian Schmitt (who failed to disclose recent payments from McSally Campaign)

2- Hiring Timmons Group
3_ Additioanl partisan influence - submission of @SALCLeaders /not SALC maps -- see more here: azdem.org/caught-emails-…

4 - Vote to adopt partisan map 3:2 - w/ Chair @ErikaNeuberg the deciding vote.
5_ @ErikaNeuberg voted republican commissions in 5 of 6 split votes
Suggests partisan imbalance

Concerns w/ draft maps itself -
> Several examples where Constitutional criteria are not met
A- Equal pop and VRA - few districts where Latinos can elect a candidate of their choice - options have been presented. IN 2011 7 Latino VRA districts were drawn - an eighth district

Calls out District LD 24, 20 and 22 (?) and LD 6 prevents ability for Native American to elect candidate of choice

Equal Pop - Pop deviations were not used to uphold VRA request - instead used to pack LD 11 and 21 - or LD 28 - for partisan outcomes

Now House Minority Leader Bolding -
- Compact and respect COI - applies COI so broadly there seems no boundary -i.e., LD 17 separates real COI; Nov 5 AIRC meeting

Do they seem engaged?

Geographic features - At best inconsistent; at worst intentionally using geography for partisan interest
Competitiveness - too many are safe and fail to over voters real choice.

AZ Dem party has not offered input because we respect voters. We trust that the AIRC in and honest, impartial way can draw fair districts - renew your commitment to balanced and fair districts.

Chair @ErikaNeuberg says "deeply thankful" and makes herself available for ongoing conversation. She is just whacked. That conversation/ those conversations shoudl not take place outside of public meetings.

She asks about competitive. - if you allow for the 8 or 9 VRA districts - no longer a random sample of population. It is actually highly partisan.
1) full rest of the state - prime const. criteria ?
2) Creating as many tight, tight districts within a few points?

York just showed up. From the golf course? Extended 19th hole?

Sen. Rios - voters want districts where a candidate from eight [party could win. Competitiveness is a high priority. Determined by "devil in the details" - we have id'd districts where there is packing.

Leader Bolding - Demographics should not be used on a partisan basis - competitiveness is important - if a district is sign. slanted for either party does not offer a choice to voters.

People want to have a choice. It is not either/or - it is a both and.

Chair @ErikaNeuberg says sometimes it is an either /or. and Want to make as many competitive districts as possible

Com. Mehl - (he should resign) says AIRC v2 - do you view those maps as successful on competitiveness>
Senator Rios:today there is only a one vote margin for majority in the legislature - says can not speak to 2011 - note where we are no - closer in parity now than since 1960

House Leader Bolding: a mixture of Dems and Reeps serving statewide - and majority of just 1 vote - new maps shoudl reflect where we are today - should not be more partisan either way... 2011 was different than today -- office by office statewide elections have changes.

Chair @ErikaNeuberg says we are conflating competitiveness within each district and how many dem/rep seats - fairness and competitive within parties.

Sen Rios - I amnestying speaking to competitiveness within the districts

Com. Lerner - Asks about urban and rural - how to balance needs of ea. constituency -- Sen. Rios - I've served in rural and urban districts - one district incorporates rural Pinal County and combines them north -- although both are rural - that can not be enough

In some cases urban and rural can share community - don't stretch one county to another -- voters express frustration with districts that combine them

Rep. Bolding - Aspect to look at COI and competitiveness and geographical lines -- as a legislator you want to make sure that everyone has their voices heard. If rural or urban might bring a different voice or skill set...

Vice Chair Watchman - trying to give equal weight to all criteria - thankful for public input and your input today.. last three weeks have been enlightening to me...

Rep Bolding lifts up the voices of the Tribal communities.

Com. York has no question. @ErikaNeuberg asks: About Native Am community; you mention your frustration that we did not embrace the @NNHRC1 map - requires pop deviation - some legal room to accommodate injustices - what pop deviation are you comfortable with? 12:42 on the clock

Rep. Bolding - pose the question to AIRC - if we are listening to COI and people have access - w/ regard to specific number or groups - you've listened, looked at maps - you figure it out...
he said it nicer than that

Sen Rios - it is a science - in some districts there were large deviations for partisan interests - not COI or VRA districts. Hope this commission lands on as many competitive districts as possible. that what voters wanted.

Chair @ErikaNeuberg says when we use our judgement and then you attack us - we are deeply interested in your ongoing input.

This is so WRONG! they can contribute as citizens - not as elected leaders.

Sen Rios says the Dem Caucus that we have told our members not to testify -- it is not our role. We have identified areas where the AIRC has failed. To the extent where there are glaring concerns - that is what we have raised.

Rep. Bolding says - we deeply support the INDEPENDENCE of the commission

Com Lerner - says Thank you for letter and comments today. RE: Packing - often because of demographics the districts often end up packed. It becomes a struggle to meet pop needs and ability to avoid packing..

Sen Rios - Points back to Latino coalitions and the submission of eight Latino districts. raises question - why did the AIRC get stuck at stagnant 7 as created in 2011...

Chair @ErikaNeuberg calls is useful and constrictive - remain open to feedback - did she says within constraints of open meeting laws...
Says they are committed to transparency, integrity and ethics -- and she said that with a straight face.

Moving on to Speaker Bowers -- Com Mehl seems to be paying attention now

Speaker Bowers says constitution does not comtemplate competitiveness
He wants to address what happens when you prioritize competitiveness - he says results are counterintuitive - Served in 15/15 split chamber etc. Conventional view that close margins produce moderate actions

My experience says not so - it empowers the extreme of political governance. Bipartisan coalitions can't form because partisan stakes are so high with close margins "defected get "flamed"

Large majorities create crossover opportunities and more compromising... True also for individual districts... a district w/ close margins will be an un happy district - no room for mistake. Legislators looking over their shoulder trip more often..

What crap..

Urges a map that is as sensitive to these realties and the political facts of our state. Tribal AZ should stay tribal; rural should stay rural.

And EQUAL population above all else. [No we know where this talking point came from]

"If providence has impact on the affairs of men, then surely it is in the details"
Questions - @ErikaNeuberg - advise us to be cautious about competitiveness - have we caused any detriment to COI in pursuit of competitiveness -- everything out of her mouth is a gift to lawyers

In the East Valley -- and where does he live?
Competitiveness is conditional/subsidiary criteria -- Hasn't this been litigated and proven WRONG?

Why yes it has.. Any lawyer out there want to provide citation. Would be really helpful.

Com Lerner - re: rural urban splits - how best to achieve ideal split? A conundrum - as little as deviation as possible - no spokes - keep rural AZ rural -- a different ethic (like Com Mehl corruption in Tucson?)

which was not transparent, ethical and with integrity. ZERO oof any of those qualities.

Com Mehl - thanks to speaker for his incredible service to the state. Asks about any specific district that stands out>
Spkr Bowers - one population - a retirement area - age -- areas of the state where elders have particular issues (don't all communities/populations?)

Suggests referring to written comments - look at districts 9 and 10 and 2 and 4 --

Com Lerner - we hear a lot about competitiveness - when Prop 106 was created - many Republicans supported it in 2000 - asks about why was competitiveness added to the Prop? ?
--- in 1998 there was a record low number of candidates

Spkr Bowers: prelude - "when this began" I was approached - dems said we are going to look for every way we can to increase our capacity -- the intent of the voter is not what io vote on - the rhetoric of campaigns is reductionist

the details are illuminative - very clearly says competitiveness is the last criteria - allies within districts as well as across the number of districts

Representation should be effective of the communities,

He goes on -- with low margins - 1 person is "king" of "queen" -- we focus on Dem and Reap but 1/3 of our pop is not part of either party -- we know enough to call them "cloaked partisans"

false you - primary you -
Don;t know many of my colleagues that do not have ambition to be elected -- their interest is diverted away from constituency to partisan values...

Back to Com. Lerner -- if you have to reach across the aisle - why is that a problem --
Thank you Commissioner Lerner - for pointing out that they don't work together because they majority party does not want to share power...

Commissioner York having a meeting with a meeting -

Spkr Bower says Com Lerner has presented an intellectual framework - but it isn't reality. Most bills pass with larger margins - but on close bills the stakes are too fraught --

now @ErikaNeuberg wants to focus on what the AIRC is constitutionally mandated to address. Struggling with geographical boundaries --

She is treating Speaker Bowers as a expert as opposed to a partisan leader. Is this obsequiousness?

Spkr - Bowers says true - geography is old

growth was a function of water and transportation - now w/ advancing technologies we are growing beyond county boundaries.

Says COI gets bigger and crosses county boundaries...

Commissioner Mehl is hanging on every word.

SO now @ErikaNeuberg says only respect county boundaries where we can - but not important in otehr areas -- Spkr bowers says yes -- uses Gila County as an example w/ only 3% (?) private land -- says AIRC has a "brain trust"

If true, we are so screwed...

Spkr Bowers is closing - says it is not thankless - because many of us are thankful.
"deeply appreciate" will take all feedback to heart and give it the "deepest consideration"
And keep in touch - we can keep our eyes on many issues so we can do the best job that we can

Next meeting date
hearing tonight in Mesa; Virtual hearing tomorrow 12 - 2:00; Saturday in Tucson and Maryvale; Dec 6 deliberations begin
- Public comments closed
- Adjourned

Have they ever one asked staff to study and issue and brought it back for consideration and discussion?

That was a rhetorical question - the answer is - NO