Thread by @TheUfoJoe

1 #ufotwitter #uaptwitter - Episode 2 of, "Weaponized."

"John “Guts” Gutierrez is an active duty Navy Commander having served for 17 years, initially as a helicopter pilot deployed all over the world, and credentialed as an Aviation Safety Officer. He’s a graduate of the

2 "U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis and has a personal passion for the UAP mystery. In this episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy & George talk with John about his life and personal perspective on the current, global UAP mystery.

3 "They also talk in-depth about the now famous UFO swarm event series that occurred off the coast of California in 2019."

4 JG had a lifelong interest in #UFOs and wanted to be an astronaut. Had adult figures in his life who took the topic seriously. Adults (family members) had serious discussions on the paranormal. His dad was the first one who mentioned Area 51. X-Files was an influence.

5 Family friend would break down episodes and what he felt was a colonel of truth in each one. JG was a C2C listener and he would listen with his dad on the way home from a late night at work.

6 Listening to serious people have serious conversations about these topics. Parents were open minded, with a discerning eye. Hard to sift through all the noise and scatter.

7 JG: Not here on behalf of the Navy. Just his opinion. Proud of his Navy career. Trying to help the public understand military perspective. In summer of 2014, he was listening to C2C & heard Lazar was going to speak at a conference (UFO Congress?) after a long period of silence.

8 Went to go see Bob speak and met Corbell at that conference. Asked JC how much the Lazar signed poster cost bc he wanted to buy it for his military friend who was also interested in Lazar. They became friends.

9 GK: People may assume: If ur friends w/Jeremy, maybe ur the leaker? JG: I am NOT the leaker. As an aviator, we're taught to compartmentalized lots of things & also keep in mind our security clearances. I keep both worlds (private interest vs. professional duties) seperate.

10 JC: JG is a rational-minded person with experience as an aviator. He's an active, Navy commander with a long military career. I would run things by JG on various cases & military witnesses over the years and utilize his expertise to help me sort what I'm looking at.

11 JC: JG has seen some of what we obtained & released. Something has 2B vetted over & over & I have to receive it 3 or 4 times to feel it's valid.

JG: I've never fed stuff to JC. "I've generally been shocked, surprised, impressed...of the sources that u DO have & maintain."

12 JG: I have no idea who your sources are.

JC: Pentagon confirmed that what we released was actual Navy footage. Were u aware of this material after seeing GK and I release it?

JG: "There were a couple of things that you guys had put out that I had been previously aware of."

13 JG: When I saw it again, in the form that you put out, it was like, "Woe, okay." It adds a certain level of credibility or validity to what you guys put out.

GK: Over the past 5 years, has this UFO subject been discussed among your colleagues on a regular basis?

14 JG: It depends on who u talk to. My buddies know me as the Fox Mulder of the squadron. 2017 - Fravor, Chad Underwood & @uncertainvector - was a big year. A big deal.

JC: When I first I told you I was speaking with a Navy commander who chased a UFO, what was your reaction?

15 JG: I thought it was total bullshit and I didn't believe you. You have to have a really good bs meter. Fravor is a perfect witness and I didn't believe it. Perfect bc...he's as close to the real-life Maverick, Tom Cruise, as you'll get in real life. CO of his own squadron.

16 JG: Fravor = Naval Academy & Top Gun graduate. He's somebody that when they speak, we should take what they're saying seriously. Navy folks DO talk about UFOs but it's not prolific. Not everybody in Navy knows about Fravor. There's still stigma but feels like we're

17 JG: turning a corner. For the guys who have run into this stuff on a daily basis, for them it's real. Stigma be damned.

JC: And they have.

JG: They have, and that's a fact. Stigma shows up for those who haven't had the experiences and aren't interested in this.

18 JG: The stigma remains for those who don't understand the aviation safety aspects associated with UAP. For those who haven't had the experiences, it's hard for them to wrap their minds around it. "It's still a big mystery. We don't know what this stuff is."

19 (Lots of folks have wondered why witnesses have sought out Corbell. Why a filmmaker? It makes no sense! He's being set-up! Knapp explains ~Joe)

GK: The way JC treated Fravor w/respect on Tic Tac case in 2017 (b4 NYT did story), that word gets around & it has served us well.

20 GK: That helped cultivate other sources. When story came out, @USNavy made it easier for their aviators & service members to report encounters & thus, experience less stigma. Navy helped lead the charge. U proud of that, as opposed 2 the way @usairforce has dragged their feet?

21 JG: I am proud. I'm proud of the way that we have tried to tackle this topic. There's a real concern w/our guys in the air, coming across things we don't know what they are. The risk of mid-air collision is there. Navy implanting easier reporting procedures or guidelines

22 JG: to make it okay for pilots not to be afraid to say, "I saw this thing, I don't know what it is, but I almost hit it."

JC: have you seen the change? Is it easier for them to report it?

JG: As a helo (helicopter) guy, I don't think it trickled down to our level bc maybe

23 JG: we weren't the type of platform that was encountering this stuff on a daily basis. But if u talk to guys on East Coast, based out of Oceania, the paradigm has shifted 4 guys like that. And I've absolutely spoken w/some of those guys & it was definitely a noticeable change.

24 JG: Was it fleet wide? I can't speak to that. But the Navy taking the lead is absolutely a point of pride for me. I won't bash my bros and sisters in other services but there have been some glaring silences from the other services and it makes you scratch your head.

25 JG: "This is not only a Navy thing. It's not only an East Coast thing. It's not only a West Coast thing. It's worldwide. People are seeing this stuff everywhere."

JC: You have direct knowledge that unidentified craft, that don't seem to have the typical propulsion, are

26 JC: being encountered by all branches of the military?

JG: "That's my opinion."

(JG saying that's his opinion is not the same thing as having direct knowledge from other aviators. I know he mentioned that earlier with EC folks but I wanted more clarification here. ~Joe)

27 JG: At the end of the day, the profession of arms is to defend the country and allies around the world. And if we come across stuff that we don't know what it is? We want to know what it is. There's been criticism about the threat narrative. Well, you can't blame a guy

28 JG: whose job it is, is to access threats & take care of them...that's our job. In my opinion, if you don't know what you're dealing with, the default position is that it might be a threat.

GK: Are u the unofficial clearinghouse for Navy folks who have UFO stories to share?

29 JG: Absolutely. You get to know people and once I'm comfortable with someone and I trust they won't think I'm a crackpot, I'll mention it. Before, there was no way to bring it up easily. But now? Hey, have you ever heard of Dave Fravor?

30 JC: Is it your experience that people that you see are taking this seriously?

JG: Yeah, yeah. They're certainly taking it more seriously now than they ever have. There's been a big sea change. I've told close buddies...if u ever see something, don't be afraid to let me know.

31 JC: Did the three videos change the way you saw stuff? Was it interesting to you?

JG: For me, absolutely. Those videos are tough, bc if you don't know what ur looking at, you don't know what you're looking at. And it's hard 2 dissect what those videos are presenting to you.

32 JG: With my background and my experience as an aviator, when you look at something like Gimbal or Tic Tac, or Go Fast, or any video that was released, and the audio of pilots - object going against the wind & wind at 120 knots - you see this thing maintaining flight,

33 JG: presumably w/no visible means of propulsion or traditional control surfaces. That's huge. Then u have average Joe Citizen say, "It's not in HD!" or, "It's grainy!" These are weapons systems we have been trained on to defend Americans. They're not designed to capture UFOs.

34 JG: We're not UFO Hunters. These systems were designed to wage war and not capture UFOs. But there's something weird here.

JC: A lot of active duty folks won't go on record for fear of their career, for fear of reprisal. Don't have they yet with Gimbal.

35 JG: "I know from personal experience...there's guys that I know and other people that I trust...there's going be more people coming out. There ARE witnesses out there, and when the time is right for them, I'm sure they'll come out and say what they have to say, and it will

36 JG: "be really hard to stick that toothpaste back in the tube."

JC: What would stop someone from coming forward to the public?

JG: The fact that they're still in the military, they're still active duty. Stigma. We're turning a corner but it's still out there.

37 - July 2019 - A series of work-ups going on, off the coast of California. 10 Navy warships prepping 4 departure. During that work-up, there was a 3-night period where there was continuous swarms of unidentifieds, simultaneously around 20 Navy warships.

extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/navy-fil…

38 JC: Knapp added in three photos from the East Coast events. I've consulted with you (JG) on these incidents. A lot of 2019 witnesses have said, "Jeremy, I want you to know what happened...but I'm not coming forward, I'm not gonna talk about it."

39 JG: With regard to 2019, IMO, there's more meat on that bone & the case is certainly not closed on that incident.

(Wait a second! There are "experts" on Twitter who've said it's all drones! 🙄 ~Joe)

JG has spoken to folks who were onboard ships for 2019 incidents.

40 JG has spoken to witnesses who were there for the 2019 incidents and who saw things either with their own eyeballs or the systems that they're trained to work on, to fight with. "You get to hear their side of the story. Talking to the folks, firsthand."

41 GK: Ur impression was that these were not normal drones, bought from K-Mart (That really hasn't been the argument. People have suggested they're Chinese military drones or secret US tech. ~Joe).

JG: My own opinion & from talking w/folks who r there, the NY Post got it wrong.

42 Video from USS Omaha & sphere that appears to go in the water, via FLIR.

JG: What u see is what u get. If u see an oval shape, the heat signature was oval. Ur not seeing wings, stabilators, rotors or exhaust. I've seen something like that on my own, thousands of times,

43 JG: flying in a helo. F-18 exhaust, day or night, is very noticeable & distinguishable on the FLIR. A balloon? I don't see how a balloon could follow a ship, "for the duration of time period that the crew said it did. And in winds. Typically, a balloon will drift in the

44 JG: direction of the wind.

GK: Do u know of any drones that look like that?

JG: Me personally? No. If it's a quadcopter, u can see the individual copters on the 4 sides of it.

JC: People in charge of the Omaha that I've spoken to...people directly involved in fighting the

45 JC: ship & capturing: "We've never seen anything like this. It has no means of propulsion that we can see. And, in fact, it went into the water. And the sub that was sent couldn't find any wreckage or a craft. They didn't find anything. They called it a trans -medium vehicle.

46 JC: The Omaha had fourteen targets over it. "I recently have spoken with people who were in charge of going...at the end of the video, you can hear, the due says, 'Launch helo,' right? They did. They launched a helo. And the pilots, & the crew on that helo, reported seeing

47 JC: "these things go above their flight altitude to evade them, and then INTO the water to evade them. So now I've got direct eyewitnesses that SAW them go into the water, tracked them down into the water. We always thought they were going into the water. That's what our gov't

48 JC: "told us was happening in these documents we obtained, right? However, now we've got eyewitnesses. Now, are they going to come forward to me? Probably not. But, like, I'm telling you, and I've been right about everything else (Some will dispute that last part. ~Joe).

49 JG has not spoken 2 those same helo folks. JC thinks he can connect JG & those helo eyewitnesses & adds, "I don't need the back-up or for u to say it's real." (I disagree. It would be extremely important if JG spoke to those eyewitnesses & they told him the same thing. ~Joe)

50 JG: "Those aren't the only witnesses.

The Omaha Radar. Plus, #ufotwitter.

JG: I follow ufotwitter, the banter going back and forth, and folks saying, "'Why didn't you shoot them down?' People have to understand...we're not just going guns a blazing

51 JG: "everywhere we go. There are very specific steps that have to happen for any Navy unit to track something and certainly, engage something. When you've got something leaving the barrel, that's a big deal. We're just off the coast of California, we're in our own backyard.

52 JG: "We're not going out there, loaded to bear, every time we go. The majority of our flying is training. And o, we don't train with live ordnance. In fact, training with live ordnance happens less often than not. So, yes, it is a big deal that unknowns or unidentifieds are

53 JG: "swarming out units. Are there procedures in place to counteract that? Sure, but you gotta remember, we're not overseas. We're in our own backyard, conducting training."

JC: My two cents, based directly from some of the individuals who are fighting the ships. "There is

54 JC "this triangle of kinetic action, which is opportunity, intent & capability. I asked a lot of the sailors, & a lot of people involved, 'Who WOULD be pulling the trigger?' I was like, 'So, how do u feel about this, now that it's all done?' They [said], 'I think that I failed

55 JC: "'in my duties.' I go, 'Well, what do u mean?' It like, haunts some of these folks, right? Because it didn't seem like an aggressive maneuver, it seemed more like of a surveillance & performance. These were the words that were said to me. Remember, & I'll be specific bc

56 JC: "I don't think people know: Around these ten ships, there was usually one (UAP ~Joe), high altitude. And we know that it went up to about 21,000 feet, which is important to keep in mind. And then there was this ballet around them, taunting, coming in at an angle.

57 JC: "However, there WAS action taken. On two of the ships in particular, there was anti-drone technology that was attempted to be used. And different types. On one of the ships...it was three different types that they...three different ways. All of which were ineffective.

58 JC: "And they went out and did a test after, right? Some of the guys went out and did a test after, to see, 'Hey, does this stuff work?' It worked like a charm! They would be able to hit things down, return to sender, no problem."

GK: "But it didn't work in this instance."

59: JC: "It didn't not work in this instance. And I know of personally, 3 ships that...what was 3, that tried to - was it 2 or 3 - that tried to do this actual defense maneuver. Which, you know, obviously it's like, no big deal. If something's there, u can get it down.

60 JC: "But also, there was attempts to just find out, where are they coming from."

~~~ Radar Video Played ~~~

JG: It's witnesses, thermal footage, radar, and visual, and that's important bc it's all about corroborative data.

JC: In this radar system, if they go below that

61 JC: scan volume, they can kind of disappear for a second. So they were wondering, what's going on. Turns out, a lot of these were apparently going into the water.

So you had these illuminated objects, about 10-14 feet in diameter, that have no control surfaces...and going

62 JC: "in and out of the water, going up to like 21,000 feet, at least that we know of. This is starting to build an interesting case. We've got radar now, we've got thermal, and a bunch eyewitnesses that people haven't heard from...YET."

63 GK: What are they doing? What is the purpose of that? Is it surveillance, intelligence gathering?

JG: That's the million-dollar question. Who's operating? What's their intent? It's ambiguous. They didn't crash into the ship or running into people. "Like you (JC) said,

64 JG: "& like we've heard from folks that we've talked to, there was definitely this sense of...maybe some sort of surveillance & performance aspect of it."

JC: "Yeah, look what I can do."

JG: "Look what I can do. These objects performed maneuvers that are just....I mean,

65 JG: "come on. They're not drones, okay? They're not conventional drones.

Deck Footage Played...

extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/ufo-deck…

66 JC: I felt this footage was important, even though it's the last impressive, visually. The objects are self luminous and filmed by a guy standing on the deck. It's corroborative visual evidence.

JG: It's all pieces of the puzzle.

JC: "We had knowledge of certain assets that

67 JC: "were in a UFO briefing that was being passed around within our military & our gov't, to train people in order how to identify true UFOs & how to report them. Now this was a classified briefing that was going around within the military, that as journalists, we got wind of.

68 JC: "But inside, inherently unclassified, was some - not everything we put out - but some. It was never going to be seen publicly, but we got it out. But on top of that, we somehow got a bunch of footage that our Pentagon DIDN'T have. Our UAPTF, the Task Force?

69 JC: "They didn't have it. So we were like, kind of astonished. 'Well, we should make sure they have it, cause we're about to release it.' So, luckily we know people, that was the right way to do it, and we said, 'Hey, this is coming out. We wanna make sure you go it.'

70 JC: "So we tried to do everything in the right way. Maybe that's what they so quickly validated that this is real military footage, filmed of unidentifieds, included in the investigation of UFOs. Maybe that's why, because we did it right, and got it to them. So that's how it

71 JC: "went down, for the audience that doesn't know about this.

"But there's more to it. It wasn't just one ship, the USS Omaha, there was also the USS Russell that we released, not only video, but also a slide that was contained in that briefing.

extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/navy-fil…

72 JC: "And this one gets everybody hot and bothered because, first of all, it's green right?"

(Switch to talking about the Omaha slide)

JC: This is an actual briefing slide that is unclassified but continued within a classified briefing.

extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/navy-fil…

73 JC: "This is a UAS, Unmanned Aerial System, some people say."

JG: "Sure. Yep."

JC: "Spherical in shape."

GK: "They searched the water for wreckage, the search was ineffective."

JC: "One of the people that designated...what these were, [said]: The only we had that we could

74 JC: "classify it as, was unmanned, because it wasn't, let's say, big enough as a normal craft, to hold a human. It was a UFO. It was unidentified, still is unidentified, but we call it an Unmanned Aerial System. And this straight out of a briefing (looking at the slide).

75 JC: "And what's so important to me was that, it's not just like we're just making this up. Other things went in front of our eyes when we were in investigating all of this stuff. We were exposed to other information, is what I'm trying to say."

76 Back to the USS Russell...

JC: "USS Russell was another ship that was out during this work-up and it had a slightly different experience than the other ships. Same kind of thing....swarms, but when George and I saw what was the videos and we saw what was reported. We'll talk

77 JC: "about the slide & what was reported. But let's watch the video...they look triangular by angle of observation. However, we were told that it was in...things that pass in front of our eyes, that they were pyramid in shape.

78 JC: "And so we reported that & we put it out."

JG: "I'm familiar with this clip...and at the end of the day, whether it's a pyramid or a triangle, or whatever the hell it is, I think what's lost on people, again, is the fact that there was a there, there to begin with.

79 JG: "There was something there."

JC: "There's this big argument about the shape of it, right?"

JG: "Sure."

JC: "That's what people are saying...it's a lens effect. And actually, that went all the way up to Congress. At first, it was the little NVG, night vision.

80 JC: "It was a PVS-14, is the standard issue since 2001, to our armed services. So the guy's got this, & he's filming through it w/a camera. So at first, they said this one had a triangle aperture & that's what's causing this effect, this distortion.

nvdevices.com/product/pvs-14…

81 JC: "And then I was looking at it because I got one, & I'm like, 'Nah man. Nah. They'd have to consciously put tape on it.' So then, they (skeptics) kind of backtracked and moved the goalposts, and now it's the camera that's doing this. And we started asking people involved.

82 JC: "The funniest thing someone said to us was, 'Look, if it was pyramid in shape, it would still look like a pyramid, even if there was an aperture issue.' Which I thought was hilarious, right? That's true. But I'm not staking my claim..."

83 GK: "Yeah, we don't have a dog in this fight, we don't care if it looks like a pyramid. Is it an unknown craft? That's what we wanted 2 know. And yeah, it is"

JC: "Yeah!"

JG: "What matters is there was something there that wasn't supposed 2B, that we won't know what it was."

84 JC: "700 feet, as you've said to me a bunch."

GK: "It was a range finder, it was 700 feet above the deck."

JC: "And there were three of them. And we don't have all the videos from that, but there were three of them, close proximity to one another, 700 feet off of the tail

85 JC: "of it, right? And it would follow the ship. And at one point, the ship stopped, and the objects stopped."

GK: "Am I correct in saying that both of you have spoken with crew members who were there."

JC: "Oh yeah."

JG: "Yes."

GK: "You have, John?"

JG: "Yeah, I'm aware

86 JG: "of people that were on those ships, at that time."

JC: "And I can say, I've filmed, & recorded with, people that were not only there at that time but had the responsibilities & duties that would

87 JC: "directly give me information about how these things were dealt with. I don't care if these things are shaped like Mickey Mouse. They're craft of unknown origin, flying with impunity, moving along, intelligently controlled. We don't know whose they are,

88 JC: "we don't know where they came from, where they launched, where they landed. And we took action against them, from the USS Russell, in three different ways. Anti-drone technology, and all of which were ineffective. Now, when you talk about witnesses, and we've both talked

89 JC: "with people involved. And again, I have filmed & recorded with, you know...they don't want it out, they're active duty, but they gave me a good...by letting me record w/them. But I'll tell you this...& do you (John) want to talk about this? We both...one of the witnesses

90 JC: "told us, as they were watching it. What did these things off the USS Russell...what did they do?"

JG: "One eyewitness account in particular...it was pretty extraordinary. First thing they noticed was these lights, kind of up in the sky. What distinguished these lights

91 JG: "from any others is kind of, the follow-on maneuvers that it executed, right? On the USS Russell."

JC: "And this is a sailor that we both know & that was there, and saw it."

JG: "Yes. Yeah. Yeah, they were up, topside, outside of the ship, as opposed to some of the other

92 JG: "folks who we've talked to who were kind of fighting from the inside [of] the ship. They can't corroborate what they see on their screens, visually with their eyeballs, right?"

JC: "The USS Russell had a SPY-1. The SPY-1 itself, by the way, has unique properties.

93 JC: "That SPY-1, they're inside the ship, so they're kind of getting that internal data: how they're moving, the distances, all that stuff...where they're coming from. But then there's people topside."

JG: "But then there's people topside, right?

94 JG: "And so this one individual in particular that we're talking about, what they saw was, again, these lights up in the sky. And all of a sudden, they just dropped down 2 the horizon level, you know, almost instantaneously, right? It drops down on the horizon, and all of a

95 JG: "sudden, it starts approaching the ship, okay? From the stern, from the rear of the ship. Once these lights come forward...first it goes up the port side of the ship... And it's funny, to hear them talk about it, it's almost like they...as this object or light, or whatever

96 JG: "it was, was kind of flying around the ship, the sailors on the deck are following it, right? So first they're on the aft end of the ship, and the object moves forward, so they move forward. It's now on the port forward side of the ship and it's just floating there, right?

97 JG: "A couple hundred feet in the air. Then it moves to the starboard side, right across, & they scurry across the ship, & they're kind of going thru where they need to go to get to the other side. They maintain eyes on it. Because they're just shocked at what they're seeing.

98 JG: "And then, probably the most dramatic part of the event was...once it moved to the starboard side of the ship, it just shot straight up into the air. And the word that the sailor that we spoke with used was...it just zoomed, it zoomed. It zoomed straight up in the air.

99 JG: "And when you ask him: Did you hear anything? Did you see anything, in terms of like, again, like exhaust, or something like that."

JC: "Or a sonic boom."

JG: "Right, exactly. And, of course, the answer's, 'No.'"

100 GK: "So this sounds like a drone I can buy at Walmart then, or something (Again, I don't think the argument has been that it was an off-the-shelf, drone. It's either an advanced, military drone (adversarial, our black tech or from a NGO) or an anomalous, unknown/UAP. ~Joe)."

101 JC & JG laugh.

GK: "Obviously, it is not."

JG: "No, obviously it's not. And again, if we're gonna take that sailor's account at face value, which I do. And again, I know the individual, and I trust that what they're... They're telling it like it is. They're telling what

102 JG: "they saw, right? It's dramatic. And no, it's not a drone from Walmart that you can get, or anywhere else for that matter, that I know of."

JC: "And this is one of many eyewitnesses. It's a little frustrating that I'm saying...that what's missing is these people coming

103 JC: "forward and saying, 'Look, I was part of that and this is what I encountered.' It's just hard to get people to come and do that because of the nature of working in the military. But these accounts."