Thread by @vaper_the

I watched the @7NewsSydney Vape Debate moderated by @AmeliaBrace between (then) premier @Dom_Perrottet and (current) premier @ChrisMinnsMP with interest.

Buckle up. It's a 🧵

[Amelia] In New South Wales they're technically only available by prescription, but there's a booming Black Market trade out there.

[Chris] Yeah I am concerned about, I guess, the ability the ease of ability for particularly young people to get access to Vapes.

[Chris] we want to make sure that we've got experts around the table to look at this problem.

Excellent idea Chris! Arrange a time when you and @RyanPark_Keira are free.

Invite experts such as …

@AlexWodak who has decades of real world, in the community experience with drug use and drug harms.

@ColinMendelsohn who has had decades of experience in helping people to #QuitSmoking, one-on-one, and the author of Stop Smoking, Start Vaping.
amazon.com.au/Stop-Smoking-S…

And of course the people who will be responsible for the regulations working (or not), because #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs!
I can make myself available for any such talks. 👍

For a different perspective, you might include …

The retired academic (@SimonChapman6) with expertise in [checks notes] sociology and psychology who predicted <10% smoking rates .. by 2010?

Simon is also an expert onanist [checks notes] orator, judging by his penchant for casting aspertions on members of the public via Twitter using clever language.

Then we come to 'Colors and Flavours Target Children' @DrBFreeman who seems to think that adults are blind and have lost their sense of taste.

Well, #nicotine consumers, in any case.

Perhaps include the very confused peeps of the @CCNewSouthWales who seem to think that #nicotine causes #cancer. They might learn something from the experience. This Poor Bogan [checks notes] @paulbgrogan looks like he could use a clue .. and a haircut.

This tweet (from the Twitter account of the blog I run on low-risk nicotine products) about sums it up.

https://twitter.com/BlogThr/status/1476191272184389633

Also @SimonePettigrew, how seems to be an expert on people's opinions of #vaping.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Simone+P…

And not to forget Renee Bittoun. Apparently Renee was in the room when a clever person devised the "Sponge" Ad devised to scare people who smoke into quitting. I've not seen anything similar for #nicotine #vaping.
Maybe the clever person left the room some time after the 1980s.

Actually, that seems a little unbalanced now I think about it. 🤔

I could probably get a vape shop owner to attend. I recall seeing one in particular (who has never sold #nicotine in any form) talk to a woman for 10 minutes straight about why she should /not/ start (nicotine-free) #vaping, just to fit in with her friends.

And perhaps #TeamBanHarder could think of another 3 or so more peeps to flesh out their side of it.

Huh . . it just occured to me that if Simon had been young today and visited /that/ vape shop, he may never have taken up #vaping* /OR/ #smoking. * Because let's face it, vaping vs smoking is a #NoBrainer & it's vaping that most 'irritates' people these days. #WhatMightHaveBeen!

[Chris] I'm not sure parents understand the how lethal these particular E-cigarettes can be.

There has been one tragic death of a toddler in Victoria who drank his mum's 10% strength #nicotine when whe turned her back. Note that this was /not/ the e-liquid we vape, which rarely goes above 3% and is supplied in bottles with needle tips and childproof caps. …

No, this was the significantly stronger #nicotine the mum was using to /make/ #eLiquid. That's something she would not have needed to do if #vaping was approved for retail sale.

A warning re approaching #TeamBanHarder. Research Article 5.3 of the @FCTCofficial policies before doing so. It's likely to be raised in a very .. unconventional way that was not its original intent, and implying that politicians are hypnotised by [checks notes] words.

[Chris] we need to continue to make sure our kids don't smoke.

#Smoking rates in youth are plummeting. But you seem to be referring to #nicotine #vaping, which has impacts so minimal they are difficult to detect.

Never smoking vapers were followed for 3½ years & had the same health levels as never nicotine users.
nature.com/articles/s4159…

[Chris] at the same time though, we do know it can help certain people in relation to quitting smoking.

It most certainly can, including a former premier of NSW who preferred .. what was it Dom? Sweet or fruit flavours?

[Chris] ..we shouldn't have products on the black market.

Agreed, and the solution is painfully obvious. LEGALISE NICOTINE VAPES. With sensible regulation, the #BlackMarket will wither and die. Safety standards can be enforced, vendors can be licensed - /they/ will hunt down and report the unlicensed vendors.

If /they/ break the rules, including selling to youth, their licence can be revoked.

[Amelia] You mentioned enforcement agencies. Is this a policing issue? Have police been told, if they see someone vaping to ask for their script?

#CopsAlsoVape. If I see a cop, they are more likely to ask what flavours I'm vaping. I always carry 2, for variety.

https://twitter.com/vaper_the/status/1637046420397228032

[Amelia] Chris, the @GreensNSW have called for vaping to just be made legal to ease this confusion. Do we need to do that, or do we need to completely outlaw it and actually enforce it?

'Confusion' is an interesting term to use. The ones here who seem most confused are those that think the ban can work by just .. banning harder.

But I'm glad you brought up the Greens. With them having won 3 seats, no matter how the last electorate is assigned, the combined vote of @NSWLabor and @GreensNSW can get legislation through.

@GreensNSW have a policy which will largely solve the boom in youth vaping
greens.org.au/nsw/policies/r…

[Chris] I think that when you move from one regime to another where it's free and legal and available to everybody ..

That has /never/ been the case. Nicotine was a federally Scheduled Poison since long before vaping was invented around 2003. The difference was that before @ausgov jumped the shark with the #PrescriptionModel, ..
tga.gov.au/how-we-regulat…

.. adults who vaped bought the gear from vape shops, and imported #nicotine to put in them.

[Chris] if [people who smoke] do need help to get off cigarettes, they go and see a doctor first and not their local newsagent.

Three notes on that. 1) When I first tried e-cigs, I hand /no intention/ of quitting smoking. I am an #AccidentalQuitter. One of many!
thethr.blog/accidental-qui…

2) somewhere between 60% (UK) & 90% (India) of doctors incorrectly believe that nicotine causes #cancer. The medical principle of 'first do no harm' would mean doctors are unlikely to recommend #NRT (patches, gums etc) /or/ #nicotine #vaping.

How many doctors in #Australia think nic causes cancer? Expecting @ausgov to have done its 'due diligence' on that as part of the RIS for the #PrescriptionModel, I asked them via FOI. Apparently they have /no information/ on that.

3) You mention newsagents, but missed tobacconists, convenience stores, servos, the shady guy at the pub who also supplies cannabis and ice..

[Amelia] Mr. Perottet, you did bring in rules to require prescriptions ..

This is incorrect. It was the previous FEDERAL government that imposed the unworkable prescription model on all states.

Greg Hunt, @healthgovau & the @TGAgovau ignored submissions to an inquiry that amply warned what would happen if you made adult #vapers in #Australia worried about /their/ access to nicotine vapour products. ..

.. They approached the local tobacconist or convenience store asking if they sold #nicotine #vapes, the vendors realised there was money to be made, they sell to ppl of all ages - and the rest is history.

Speaking of @TGAgovau, they recently completed the latest inquiry which attracted more than 4000 submissions, the vast majority of which were ordinary Australians pleading with the government to allow retail sale of #nicotine #vapes. Here are parts of TGA's commentary on those.

'Alternative products' is an interesting label for 'disposable vapes with no regulatory or manufacturing oversite, sold by criminals who are only in it for the money & will happily sell to children'. 🤨

And age controls, TGA. AND age controls.

I'd thought there were approx 1.3 million vapers in #Australia, but suddenly the number of two million has been bandied about. Could that be because the former number was adults and the latter includes peeps under the age of 18? 🤔

Of course, those aged 15-17 would form the greatest number of that group, and they will become voters by [checks time] .. the next election.

Reminder, when it comes to #WeVapeWeVote, those numbers are increasing. Daily.

Unlikely to win a majority, huh @NSWLabor?
theconversation.com/nsw-labor-unli…

I sure hope @GreensNSW can gain your co-operation for getting sensible retail regulations for adult sales of #nicotine #vapes enacted. It is (the start of) the way out of this mess created by the former federal gov!

/fin (for now)

As an aside @7NewsSydney, I posted the Closed Caption file (linked below) as a comment on the vid in the hope you would upload them to the video of the vape debate moderated by @AmeliaBrace. But the comment has disappeared. 😢

How about it?
drive.google.com/file/d/1B8NUy4…

@threadreaderapp please unroll