Thread by @barandbench

[Same Sex Marriage Hearing] DAY 2

#SupremeCourtofIndia to hear a batch of 20 petitions seeking to legalise same sex marriage

A five-judge Constitution bench to begin hearing today post 10:45 am

Track this thread for all live updates👇

#samesexmarriage #LGBTQI #gayrights

Read DAY 1 complete story here :

Notions of man, woman, genitals do not define gender in absolute sense: Supreme Court

barandbench.com/news/litigatio…

#samesexmarriage #SupremeCourtofIndia #LGBTQIA

Central Government has in a fresh application urged the Constitution Bench that views of state governments are taken into account since "marriage" is in concurrent list

On April 18, the Department of Legal Affairs has also written to all Chief Secretaries of states to submit… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Central Government has in a fresh application urged the Constitution Bench that views of state governments are taken into account since "marriage" is in concurrent list

On April 18, the Department of Legal Affairs has also written to all Chief Secretaries of states to submit… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Constitution bench assembles for Day 2
#samesexmarriage #SupremeCourtofIndia #LGBTQIA

Sr Adv Anand Grover: we have been told to finish by tomorrow

CJI DY Chandrachud: I think tomorrow was an overstatement by me

Sr Adv Mukul Rohatgi: I have a suggestion...

#SupremeCourtofIndia #Samesexmarriage

Justice Kaul: we will not permit you to go here and there

Sr Adv KV Vishwanathan: my submissions are limited to counter and additional counter by them including international jurisprudence

Adv Arundhati Katju: we need to make submissions for the transgenders as well… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

SG Tushar Mehta: before the petitioners start, I have placed one document on record. In continuation of my request that states be heard.. Union of India has written to all Chief Secretaries that their views could be given

CJI: Excellent.. then states already know about it.… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: I am challenging a central law and merely because a subject is in concurrent list it does mean states have to be joined.. insolvency was challenged before this court and that was in concurrent list as well.. but states were not joined

CJI: you do not have to labour on… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: we are in a way revisiting something which has already been decided. we need to go atleast ahead in some areas.. at least in areas where the law is secular and not touching personal laws.. like payment of gratuity act.. where pension is given only the basis of marriage..… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Bhat: when it comes to personal law this will also affect it.. this court will have to engage itself at a number of times.. the issue is we are not looking at is a whole but in a truncated matter.. thus for convenience we say ok under special marriage act.. but others who… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: instead of colonial legislation we can use the word colonial mindset. some parts of mindset remains even after the 377 judgment... whether you look at centre or state submissions.... so in a sum... wherever husband and wife is used make it gender neutral by using spouse… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: i am equal to heterosexual groups and it cannot be so that their sexual orientation is correct and all others are incorrect. I am saying let there be a positive affirmation and since we have been held to be equal starting for NALSA and Navtej then there should be… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Kaul: everything cannot change at once.. once its recognised then you are married and if people then do not recognise you as married then its a violation of our order if we agree with you...

Rohatgi: but real benefits should flow..

Justice Kaul: if marriage is… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: the court may be pleased to direct that all laws were benefits ought to flow for marriage couples for heterosexual relations also apply to same sex marriage couples.. we have spent in carefully drafting this... so that there is an explicit declaration.. if we succeed… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: we are being buried under the pressure of the majority. Oh look they are in minority we are said.. it is not the law but it is the mindset which is bothering us in daily life... #samesexmarriage

Rohatgi: society accepts what the law is... i gave example of widow remarriage act and law acted with alacrity.. and here we need to push the society to acknowledge us as equals in all respect because the constitution says so and the moral authority of this court is there.. this… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: the petitioner i am appraring for has come out to his parents and the relationship was accepted by parents by even a reception was held by the parents of the boy... this is in a small town where this has happened with parents who are from the earlier generation… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: this court cannot stop at annulling section 377 but grant us equal rights to marry like heterosexual couples so that we can live in society with dignity #samesexmarriage

Rohatgi: every facet of life where we face pitfalls should end.. law must take positive steps.. state should come forward and say that they accept gracefully... in Navtej centre in affidavit had said that they leave it to the court.. but court commented on it that centre should… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: you go to Khajurao and the sexual acts are depicted there for thousands of years. there is no european influence... it was in fact there since then.. society has existed in the shifting sands of time... British influence prevailed since they made the laws and those… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohagi: you are dealing with something which is beyond the normal. it deals with the public confidence which wrests on this court #samesexmarriage

Rohatgi: I have no representation in the parliament and that is why it is the courts we come to. Courts have always struck down the argument that even if one person is impacted then an action is struck down... in navtej also the miniscule minority point was overruled... if one… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Rohatgi: popular morality cannot defer the decisions of this court for the legislative process #samesexmarriage

Rihatgi: constitutional morality will become a habit for the people when the same is upheld by this very court.NALSA, Puttuswamy and Navteh was the groundwork laid down by this court already #samesexmarriage

Rohatgi: now coming to special marriage act... section 2(b) degrees of prohibited relationship... so as per part 1.. man cannot have any relation with all males including here in apart from father and the women cannot have relation with all females in the part except the mother..… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Kaul: here we see sisters daughter as
prohibited relationship but in many communities it is allowed.. so we are a diverse country...

Rohatgi: regarding the age if two males are getting married both can be 21 and for females it can be 18 for both of them

Justice Bhat:… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

CJI : See when @AshwiniUpadhyay came here we rejected the plea to remove the minimum age of marriage since then even a 4 year old girl could have got married. #samesexmarriage

The five judges discuss #samesexmarriage #supremecourt

Sr Adv AM Singhvi: i will not repeat 95 percent of submissions made by Mr Rohatgi. I will finish by tomorrow lunch time.

CJI DY Chandrachud: please wrap it up today

Singhvi: this is a matter of some moment.. I will give some facets.. saying in points is a virtue that you are… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Kaul: see you have experience in this court.. nowhere in this country can arguments go on indefinitely...

Singhvi: some matters are evolving and there are questions by the bench.. So i need to answer the same

Justice Kaul: absolute outer limit is today..

CJI:… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Kaul: we have to get used to finish cases in time bound matter because there are other cases also.

Singhvi: non discriminatory inclusion is first head, the notice being sent under Special marriage act regime.. is the second head and the third one is moulding and tailor… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: the heart of this case is not the statutory provisions or notice objection regime.. the heart of the case is right to choose.. and the heart of the matter is marital relationship.. this is regardless of gender or gender identity... and to manifest the idea of love into… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Bhat: the protection you seek will want us to give a wider declaration....

Singhvi: the validation of same sex marriage along with consequences is a very big victory.. this court cannot stop murders but it can say that murder in law is wrong..

Justice Bhat: the value… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Bhat: what prevents the state from protecting you even now?

Singhvi: because decriminalization does not guarantee me the right to live with the dignity that as of a married couple

CJI : Let us come back after lunch

#samesexmarriage

The constitution bench will resume hearing at 2 pm #SupremeCourtofIndia #LGBTQIA

Singhvi: these are the three constitutional facets which are being practiced on the ascriptive front.. if there is a violation of dignity etc it is based on ascriptive feature like race, caste, national origin.. here it will be sex or sexual orientation..here it will be implied… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: when union of India in various places of the counter.. it says social, culturally ingrained for the marriage... it forgets that Special marriage act was created as an alternative to the socially culturally ingrained form of marriages or the unpopular marriages like the… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: I dont marry because i want to get a tax benefit... some people do..

Justice Kaul: some people get separated to get tax benefits.

Justice Hima Kohli: i was about to say this..

CJI: if a couple is in gay or lesbian relationship can still adopt , so the entire argument… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Justice Bhat: say insurance like family insurance etc are subject to regulations... so u have IRDA regulations or there are standard policies... do they use such expressions or are left loose.. i think its open ended.. like nominate even a non family

Singhvi: i am talking about… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Sr Adv Menaka Guruswamy: how marriage is defined by the court will impact these changes... RBI does not have a guideline on this

Justice Bhat: if you see Justice Ramaswamy judgment then such things can be done even with a direction without us getting into all of this..

CJI DY Chandrachud: State cannot discriminate against an individual on the basis of a characteristic over which the individual does not have control. When you see it is innate characteristics then it counter urban elitist concept.. urban perhaps because more people are coming out… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: Special marriage act is a non religious mode of marriage..

CJI: so you are saying since special marriage act is agnostic to faith.. making it agnostic to sexual orientation is not a leap of faith..

Singhvi: yes to put it simply

#SupremeCourtofIndia

CJI: The basis of a classification cannot be conflated with a purpose..

Singhvi cites a judgment regarding evening law classes for candidates... societal values cannot trump non discriminatory principles..

Singhvi: there is another facet of manifestly arbitrariness.. now there is substantive fairness.. now these atypical manifestations of family units are not only deserving of protection of law but also social welfare institutions #samesexmarriage

Singhvi: The projection of the gender identity, which is a part of free speech, is inhibited by your stand which allows that right unfettered in heterosexual category but how is it a reasonable restriction for me? The silence is being read in the counter and the stand of the… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Singhvi: a lesbian couple may have children by donor insemination and a gay couple may bring a child of someone else or adopt.. homosexual couples can have same interdependent sexual relation like heterosexual couples.. #samesexmarriage

Day 2 of the Constitution Bench hearing comes to an end.

Dr AM Singhvi to continue submissions tomorrow

Bench rises

#SupremeCourtofIndia #samesexmarriage