@tony_nog's Threads
1) Amongst many other failures and outright lies from Corbyn's Labour on #Brexit this, the lie of a "Jobs first, protect workers rights Brexit" is right up there
Corbyn and Labour conspired to throw away worker & regulations protections, the greatest rights loss in history
Corbyn and Labour conspired to throw away worker & regulations protections, the greatest rights loss in history
2) There was *never* a jobs first #Brexit but more importantly a "protect workers rights" #Brexit was a complete & deliberate lie
Yesterday we enjoyed pan european workers rights on maternity, working time directive, sick pay, a whole host - that's all under threat
Yesterday we enjoyed pan european workers rights on maternity, working time directive, sick pay, a whole host - that's all under threat
3) Corbyn proposed a "protect workers rights" #Brexit but what did that mean? We would by law enforce the same rights for our workers as they did in the EU, how? By what mechanism would they be enforced? By treaty?
And we would have no say over these rights outside of the EU
And we would have no say over these rights outside of the EU
1) @UKLabour - what happened?
Fundamentally 4 blindingly big errors were made by Labour, and at least 3 of them were obvious years ago
Firstly, Labour could only ever, strategically, be a Remain party - they could never out #Brexit the Tories - but they never found a route
Fundamentally 4 blindingly big errors were made by Labour, and at least 3 of them were obvious years ago
Firstly, Labour could only ever, strategically, be a Remain party - they could never out #Brexit the Tories - but they never found a route
@UKLabour 2) whatever the northern seat position was, you cannot win as Labour with Brexit lite, just as Labour couldn't win 10 years ago with austerity lite
The Brexit camp was full, strategically the only route for Labour was full throated Remain - they never got there
The Brexit camp was full, strategically the only route for Labour was full throated Remain - they never got there
@sianberry @NicolaSturgeon @joswinson @Adamprice
1) How to close down the Tory Rep in tonight's #Brexit election debate
Just point out in your opening speech that the Tory Rep whoever it is is not not there to debate, or discuss, but to repeat "Get Brexit Done" over and over
1) How to close down the Tory Rep in tonight's #Brexit election debate
Just point out in your opening speech that the Tory Rep whoever it is is not not there to debate, or discuss, but to repeat "Get Brexit Done" over and over
@sianberry @NicolaSturgeon @joswinson @Adamprice 2) just call it out, invite ridicule. Offer a selfie to whoever can spot the most mentions of "Get Brexit done"
"brexiters say we think Leave voters are stupid, but clearly they have no respect for you
"Take Back Control" was the brainwashing phrase, now it's "get brexit done"
"brexiters say we think Leave voters are stupid, but clearly they have no respect for you
"Take Back Control" was the brainwashing phrase, now it's "get brexit done"
@sianberry @NicolaSturgeon @joswinson @Adamprice 3) "there is no intention of debate, of honest discussion, just a brief from Cummings to answer any question with "get Brexit done"
Call it out, and the Tory Rep will be flummoxed, because that's all they will have
Call it out, and the Tory Rep will be flummoxed, because that's all they will have
Fact is @UKLabour are deliberately fielding a deeply unpopular leader who has lost every external election (locals, GE, Euros),sometimes spectacularly
In doing so they have demonstrated that keeping Corbyn & blaming everyone else is is more important than protecting their voters
In doing so they have demonstrated that keeping Corbyn & blaming everyone else is is more important than protecting their voters
1) I know this tweet will get "you need to vote tactically" comments - I know that
But cannot understand why anyone is surprised at the polling nightmare
Corbyn was less popular than May & "Don't know" for 2 years! What did you think would happen when he was facing a populist?
But cannot understand why anyone is surprised at the polling nightmare
Corbyn was less popular than May & "Don't know" for 2 years! What did you think would happen when he was facing a populist?
1) The real #Brexit issue
Last night I posted a comment - what was the point of a Corbyn led Referendum
Numerous people got annoyed & several born again Labour commentators told me I needed to essentially face reality and support Corbyn
Hard nosed LD remainers are not the issue
Last night I posted a comment - what was the point of a Corbyn led Referendum
Numerous people got annoyed & several born again Labour commentators told me I needed to essentially face reality and support Corbyn
Hard nosed LD remainers are not the issue
2) there isn't 20% of the population who are LD remainers picking Johnson, just 20% of the population who can't vote Corbyn
The issue is *not* LD remainers
The issue is Labour supporters who will not drop Corbyn,despite all evidence, and who expect everyone else to fall in line
The issue is *not* LD remainers
The issue is Labour supporters who will not drop Corbyn,despite all evidence, and who expect everyone else to fall in line
3) we've had 3 years of Corbyn barely moving an inch, punishing tactical voting and then crowing when that tactical voting returned him a better than expected loss in 2017, making no moves to actually stop Brexit and confusing the issue by offering new "jobs first" unicorns
1) probably shouldn't oversimplify, but I'm going to anyway
If @UKLabour don't want an election, they need to *all* get behind a Final Say 2nd ref
If they can't, they have to get behind a GE
But they have to all get behind *something* on #Brexit, and the problem is they cant
If @UKLabour don't want an election, they need to *all* get behind a Final Say 2nd ref
If they can't, they have to get behind a GE
But they have to all get behind *something* on #Brexit, and the problem is they cant
@UKLabour 2) and the reason why @UKLabour can't get behind any given position is they have a leadership out of step with most members & MPs, which *does* want #Brexit but then hopes to come into power in the chaos that follows
The membership know this really,but won't do anything about it
The membership know this really,but won't do anything about it
@UKLabour 3) *IF* Labour got fully behind a #PeoplesVote or a #FinalSayForAll it would invigorate the movement, make the public see it as a possibility and help us put an end to #Brexit
But Labour never will, because Corbyn never will
So fatigue sets in, and Johnson wins by default
But Labour never will, because Corbyn never will
So fatigue sets in, and Johnson wins by default
Labour put us here. By refusing to unequivocally support Remain & a people's vote, by endlessly appearing on TV pretending that a "better" deal was possible, by sitting on the fence but most importantly, by indulging a brexiter leader we are in this desperate position
Honestly I've gone from fanboy status to being sick of hearing @DavidLammy, @jessphillips, @Andrew_Adonis and others shouting support for remain but doing nothing in practical terms to actually fight #brexit
They could have called Corbyn out, they could have left
They didn't
They could have called Corbyn out, they could have left
They didn't
@DavidLammy @jessphillips @Andrew_Adonis Every Labour MP, every left wing commentator who pretended support for remain but stood behind Corbyn when it actually mattered, #Brexit is on them, because they knew the damage brexit would cause but did nothing of substance to stop it
Summed up in a nutshell - why are @bbclaurak @Peston @ShippersUnbound etc focusing on theatrics of "unsigned letters" and not on the key point, that they have been led by the nose by "Nbr 10 sources" about secret plans to thwart Benn act which,in the end, didn't actually exist
@bbclaurak @Peston @ShippersUnbound For weeks @Peston @bbclaurak and others have been playing Cummings' game of amplifying "we'll beat the Benn act with our cunning plans", but those plans were basically "we won't sign the letter"
They've been played & should take stock on what they've lost
They've been played & should take stock on what they've lost
@bbclaurak @Peston @ShippersUnbound There was nothing, Cummings has turned out to be not half as clever as he thought he was, Johnson has been forced into a climb down of his own making because MPs cannot trust him, we're not leaving on 31st as Cummings intended
And @Peston tweets this?
And @Peston tweets this?
1) For all the praise laid on @Keir_Starmer and others, there is *no* authentic Labour Leadership voice saying *unambiguously* that #Brexit is a bad idea, only that this or that particular deal is
Because Labour will not displace Corbyn eventually the brexiters will win
Because Labour will not displace Corbyn eventually the brexiters will win
@Keir_Starmer 2) the frustration is, so many Labour supporters pretending they care about the NHS, workers rights, the vulnerable
But they don't, in the end they put supporting Corbyn, and therefore enabling #Brexit, above everything
But they don't, in the end they put supporting Corbyn, and therefore enabling #Brexit, above everything
@Keir_Starmer 3) at this point Remain looks like a busybody, a spoilsport, endlessly delaying
Because there is no public facing consensus in Labour that #Brexit itself is a stupid idea so we have to fight the deals rather than Brexit as a concept
Because there is no public facing consensus in Labour that #Brexit itself is a stupid idea so we have to fight the deals rather than Brexit as a concept
1) 6 simple #Brexit questions
Questions never asked by TV interviewers of Brexiter MPs
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson etc
"If you are confident alternative arrangements will work, why are you worried about the backstop which will only kick in if they *dont* work?"
Questions never asked by TV interviewers of Brexiter MPs
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson etc
"If you are confident alternative arrangements will work, why are you worried about the backstop which will only kick in if they *dont* work?"
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson 2) "if no deal is so terrifying that the EU will buckle if it's threatened, how can it simultaneously be so easy that Yellowhammer and other reports are "project fear"?
How can it hurt the EU without hurting us to a greater degree?"
How can it hurt the EU without hurting us to a greater degree?"
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson 3) "you promised this would be easy, it's on record.
Why isn't it?"
Why isn't it?"
1) They're not as bad as each other
Increasingly frustrated at Remain commentators drawing an equivalence between the LDs and Corbyn.."they'd prefer no deal #brexit than..."
They are *not* as bad as each other
Please stop indulging Corbyn
It's 100 Vs 1
He has to step aside
Increasingly frustrated at Remain commentators drawing an equivalence between the LDs and Corbyn.."they'd prefer no deal #brexit than..."
They are *not* as bad as each other
Please stop indulging Corbyn
It's 100 Vs 1
He has to step aside
2) firstly over 100 MPs have to hold their nose and vote for no confidence, knowing it *could* result in a Corbyn Government
MPs who left Labour over anti semitism
MPs who despise the Marxism they believe he represents
MPs who just don't think he's fit to be PM
MPs who left Labour over anti semitism
MPs who despise the Marxism they believe he represents
MPs who just don't think he's fit to be PM
3) then, let's say Corbyn can't get the numbers - he is perfectly capable of blocking anyone else getting caretaker PM position. He's already threatened it.
We then have an election, which Johnson would win, and we crash out on no deal in between
We then have an election, which Johnson would win, and we crash out on no deal in between
1) No more Mr Nice Guy
Remainer MPs, commentators etc - you *have* to be @petergeoghegan
Spiked online, right wing think tankers, Telegraph journalists - they are not here to debate #brexit - they're here to position tropes and spread uncertainty, to follow their instructions
Remainer MPs, commentators etc - you *have* to be @petergeoghegan
Spiked online, right wing think tankers, Telegraph journalists - they are not here to debate #brexit - they're here to position tropes and spread uncertainty, to follow their instructions
@petergeoghegan 2) these brexiter shills are not appearing on TV to contribute to the #Brexit debate but to stifle it
"Im from an Irish family so I think the GFA is no big deal" isn't a rational position, it's gaslighting, and should be treated as such
Call it out, call them out
"Im from an Irish family so I think the GFA is no big deal" isn't a rational position, it's gaslighting, and should be treated as such
Call it out, call them out
@petergeoghegan 3) "17.4 m voted" is not a #Brexit position, it's a distraction because the debate has moved on
"Parliament didn't deliver Brexit" is not a position as long as 50 odd Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit with May's deal
"Parliament didn't deliver Brexit" is not a position as long as 50 odd Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit with May's deal
1) There's many people, including many I have the deepest respect for, attacking the LDs over their Corbyn stance
Please, get a grip
It's *Corbyn*
He won't call it an interim government, or a GNU, or an interim..he'll call it a *Labour* government, and act like he's born to it
Please, get a grip
It's *Corbyn*
He won't call it an interim government, or a GNU, or an interim..he'll call it a *Labour* government, and act like he's born to it
2) in case anyone wasn't looking the entire Labour membership got screwed over in a shameful undermining of party democracy just 2 weeks ago
And you expect MPs to support him as parachuted in PM? And for him to act with humility and candour with a limited mandate on #Brexit?
And you expect MPs to support him as parachuted in PM? And for him to act with humility and candour with a limited mandate on #Brexit?
3) there's no debate on this, and theres no point blaming Joe Swinson
Corbyn *has* to step aside, or the Caretaker government will be a laughing stock
Please, get a grip, stop indulging him, it's just one man
Corbyn *has* to step aside, or the Caretaker government will be a laughing stock
Please, get a grip, stop indulging him, it's just one man
Re Corbyn and #brexit caretaker government
Either persuade about 50 MPs who are absolutely ideologically opposed to Corbyn to hold their noses, possibly vote against their party and install him
Or ask 1 MP to swallow his ego and step aside
I don't see why this is even a debate
Either persuade about 50 MPs who are absolutely ideologically opposed to Corbyn to hold their noses, possibly vote against their party and install him
Or ask 1 MP to swallow his ego and step aside
I don't see why this is even a debate
I mean you can spin this around "right as LOTO to be given first dibs" etc but ultimately, in any other walk of life persuading 1 person rather than 50 would be the obvious route
Corbyn's a grown up, he must see the polls, this is just being pragmatic
Corbyn's a grown up, he must see the polls, this is just being pragmatic
There's several candidates who will be seen as a safe pair of hands, can carry parliament & country in a temp. Government to get us past this crisis
Corbyn can't. It doesn't matter why he can't, he just can't - and the whole country is being held hostage
Corbyn can't. It doesn't matter why he can't, he just can't - and the whole country is being held hostage
This is the weak spot of #Brexit, its fatal flaw
Remainer MPs need to raise their game and get some *passion*
"Get Brexit done? Which Brexit?
No deal? Country doesn't want it
May's deal? You all blocked it
New Deal? Doesn't exist
Pick one for God's sake!"
Remainer MPs need to raise their game and get some *passion*
"Get Brexit done? Which Brexit?
No deal? Country doesn't want it
May's deal? You all blocked it
New Deal? Doesn't exist
Pick one for God's sake!"
"you've had 3 years for pity's sake and you still can't agree on a #Brexit deal even inside the Tory party never mind for the Country. For God's sake just pick something real rather than some Johnson fairy story and let's ask the people. Enough is enough"
1) #Brexit - the really obvious stinger
Numerous bright & articulate anti no dealers come on telly and get attacked by brexit supporters (whether MPs, commentators or the public) for "blocking Brexit"
Why do they never shut this down with "but Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit!"
Numerous bright & articulate anti no dealers come on telly and get attacked by brexit supporters (whether MPs, commentators or the public) for "blocking Brexit"
Why do they never shut this down with "but Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit!"
2) the oversimplified view is "get #Brexit done"
The reality is - which brexit? Because brexiters can't decide on one
So May's deal was Brexit, it stopped free movement, it had the red lines
The ERG voted against it, they voted against Brexit
The reality is - which brexit? Because brexiters can't decide on one
So May's deal was Brexit, it stopped free movement, it had the red lines
The ERG voted against it, they voted against Brexit
3) now as remainers we all know why the hard brexiters hate May's deal, and as a Remainer I hate it as well.
But the point is, it *was* Brexit, and the hard brexiters *did* vote against it, and if they hadn't, we'd have left by now
But the point is, it *was* Brexit, and the hard brexiters *did* vote against it, and if they hadn't, we'd have left by now
1) #Brexit deal Window
commentators like @Dpjhodges are deliberately missing the point
52% voted for #Brexit, but there is no feasible brexit they could all get behind
Which means remainers are expected to step in to support something they don't believe in
It doesn't work
commentators like @Dpjhodges are deliberately missing the point
52% voted for #Brexit, but there is no feasible brexit they could all get behind
Which means remainers are expected to step in to support something they don't believe in
It doesn't work
@DPJHodges 2) let's move the #Brexit window (the deal which a majority can get behind) all the way over to No deal
Yes there might be as much as 35% of the country behind this, a lot of MPs, certainly the ERG
But nowhere near a majority - and any deal must have a majority
So we move left
Yes there might be as much as 35% of the country behind this, a lot of MPs, certainly the ERG
But nowhere near a majority - and any deal must have a majority
So we move left
@DPJHodges 3) We move the #Brexit window towards May's deal, or even all the way towards a Norway/Soft Brexit deal...yes you start pulling in the moderate Brexit supporters and even some remainers who can live with this
But you are shedding Brexiters faster than you can take on Remainers
But you are shedding Brexiters faster than you can take on Remainers
@Peston the faithful Johnson Retainer part 3
1) a few weeks ago I ranted on the cozy, soft lighting, barely present "interview" #peston gave Johnson, and the contrast with his heckling of other politicians, even laughing off Johnson's self serving nature
1) a few weeks ago I ranted on the cozy, soft lighting, barely present "interview" #peston gave Johnson, and the contrast with his heckling of other politicians, even laughing off Johnson's self serving nature
#Lab19
It was the same last year, and the year before
@UKLabour remainers, you can composite, and posture, and tweet all you want
But until you have the integrity to displace Corbyn Labour will be a #Brexit party, who's leadership will torpedo remain
huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/len-mccl…
It was the same last year, and the year before
@UKLabour remainers, you can composite, and posture, and tweet all you want
But until you have the integrity to displace Corbyn Labour will be a #Brexit party, who's leadership will torpedo remain
huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/len-mccl…
1) Reality of GE choices & Labour #Brexit policy
Below is the proposed Labour #Brexit policy
So the first thing to say about it is it's fundamentally a lie, dishonest from beginning to end, and is likely a pro #Brexit policy
There is no "close relationship to" the SM
Below is the proposed Labour #Brexit policy
So the first thing to say about it is it's fundamentally a lie, dishonest from beginning to end, and is likely a pro #Brexit policy
There is no "close relationship to" the SM
2) now of course many of my fellow remainers will be shocked at that statement and will say, quite rightly, that we need to get Labour support to fight #Brexit
That's true, but Labour's position remains dishonest, whether we need them or not
That's true, but Labour's position remains dishonest, whether we need them or not
3) firstly, it's clearly nonsense to talk about workers rights & green alignment with the EU because this cannot be protected between governments, a new Tory government could sweep all of that away
1) what choice do the LDs have? Corbyn is making Remain ridiculous
Again, I'd ask people to take a deep breath. The issue is not the LDs #RevokeA50 position, because no other position is possible, and Corbyn's #Brexit position is ridiculous
Whether @joswinson says so or not
Again, I'd ask people to take a deep breath. The issue is not the LDs #RevokeA50 position, because no other position is possible, and Corbyn's #Brexit position is ridiculous
Whether @joswinson says so or not
@joswinson 2) a reminder - Corbyn will negotiate some unspecified (and unrealistic) deal
And then will neither campaign for or against it
He'll call a Referendum, and be neutral on the outcome
Just look at how ridiculous that appears
And then will neither campaign for or against it
He'll call a Referendum, and be neutral on the outcome
Just look at how ridiculous that appears
@joswinson 3) I get the earnest arguments about how it's the most democratic, how it brings the country together, how it's honourable...
But it's just full of holes
But it's just full of holes
uberBrexiters - those who have moved to an ever more extreme #Brexit position such that anything other than the hardest of hard Brexits is treason
uberRemainers - those who wanted to Remain and still want to Remain, thus keeping the status quo
Yes, exactly the same extremists
uberRemainers - those who wanted to Remain and still want to Remain, thus keeping the status quo
Yes, exactly the same extremists
uberArsonists - used to want to burn some stuff, now want to burn everything
uberAntiArsonists - anti burning anything because it's damaging & pointless
Moderates - those ok with burning some stuff because the uberArsonists seem pretty ticked off
uberAntiArsonists - anti burning anything because it's damaging & pointless
Moderates - those ok with burning some stuff because the uberArsonists seem pretty ticked off
If I'm against hanging Lewis then I'm just against hanging, full stop. I don't become an uberAntihanger just because the pro hanging movement has started random lynchings & the ones in the middle say "well, they seem pretty committed to this hanging lark"
Labour & LDs on #Brexit - optics
1) I really think people need to take a deep breath and think about the reality of the optics on the Labour position - and why the LDs are for #RevokeA50
Labour's policy is logical, rational, fair...
...and will be shredded in 30 seconds on TV
1) I really think people need to take a deep breath and think about the reality of the optics on the Labour position - and why the LDs are for #RevokeA50
Labour's policy is logical, rational, fair...
...and will be shredded in 30 seconds on TV
2) it comes down to the single fatal flaw in the #PeoplesVote approach, what is the other option to Remain
If you are not in power you can, though it's not easy, argue it's Brexiter responsibility to pick the leave deal in a ref
"Give us your best shot"
If you are not in power you can, though it's not easy, argue it's Brexiter responsibility to pick the leave deal in a ref
"Give us your best shot"
3) but if you are in power, it's on *you* to define the alternative to Remain. And what is it? Your own version of a deal?
But then if you campaign for that deal, you are a Brexiter party, if you campaign against your own deal, you look ridiculous
And if you remain neutral?
But then if you campaign for that deal, you are a Brexiter party, if you campaign against your own deal, you look ridiculous
And if you remain neutral?
