@tony_nog's Threads
Summed up in a nutshell - why are @bbclaurak @Peston @ShippersUnbound etc focusing on theatrics of "unsigned letters" and not on the key point, that they have been led by the nose by "Nbr 10 sources" about secret plans to thwart Benn act which,in the end, didn't actually exist
@bbclaurak @Peston @ShippersUnbound For weeks @Peston @bbclaurak and others have been playing Cummings' game of amplifying "we'll beat the Benn act with our cunning plans", but those plans were basically "we won't sign the letter"
They've been played & should take stock on what they've lost
They've been played & should take stock on what they've lost
@bbclaurak @Peston @ShippersUnbound There was nothing, Cummings has turned out to be not half as clever as he thought he was, Johnson has been forced into a climb down of his own making because MPs cannot trust him, we're not leaving on 31st as Cummings intended
And @Peston tweets this?
And @Peston tweets this?
1) For all the praise laid on @Keir_Starmer and others, there is *no* authentic Labour Leadership voice saying *unambiguously* that #Brexit is a bad idea, only that this or that particular deal is
Because Labour will not displace Corbyn eventually the brexiters will win
Because Labour will not displace Corbyn eventually the brexiters will win
@Keir_Starmer 2) the frustration is, so many Labour supporters pretending they care about the NHS, workers rights, the vulnerable
But they don't, in the end they put supporting Corbyn, and therefore enabling #Brexit, above everything
But they don't, in the end they put supporting Corbyn, and therefore enabling #Brexit, above everything
@Keir_Starmer 3) at this point Remain looks like a busybody, a spoilsport, endlessly delaying
Because there is no public facing consensus in Labour that #Brexit itself is a stupid idea so we have to fight the deals rather than Brexit as a concept
Because there is no public facing consensus in Labour that #Brexit itself is a stupid idea so we have to fight the deals rather than Brexit as a concept
1) 6 simple #Brexit questions
Questions never asked by TV interviewers of Brexiter MPs
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson etc
"If you are confident alternative arrangements will work, why are you worried about the backstop which will only kick in if they *dont* work?"
Questions never asked by TV interviewers of Brexiter MPs
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson etc
"If you are confident alternative arrangements will work, why are you worried about the backstop which will only kick in if they *dont* work?"
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson 2) "if no deal is so terrifying that the EU will buckle if it's threatened, how can it simultaneously be so easy that Yellowhammer and other reports are "project fear"?
How can it hurt the EU without hurting us to a greater degree?"
How can it hurt the EU without hurting us to a greater degree?"
@Peston @bbclaurak @bbcnickrobinson 3) "you promised this would be easy, it's on record.
Why isn't it?"
Why isn't it?"
1) They're not as bad as each other
Increasingly frustrated at Remain commentators drawing an equivalence between the LDs and Corbyn.."they'd prefer no deal #brexit than..."
They are *not* as bad as each other
Please stop indulging Corbyn
It's 100 Vs 1
He has to step aside
Increasingly frustrated at Remain commentators drawing an equivalence between the LDs and Corbyn.."they'd prefer no deal #brexit than..."
They are *not* as bad as each other
Please stop indulging Corbyn
It's 100 Vs 1
He has to step aside
2) firstly over 100 MPs have to hold their nose and vote for no confidence, knowing it *could* result in a Corbyn Government
MPs who left Labour over anti semitism
MPs who despise the Marxism they believe he represents
MPs who just don't think he's fit to be PM
MPs who left Labour over anti semitism
MPs who despise the Marxism they believe he represents
MPs who just don't think he's fit to be PM
3) then, let's say Corbyn can't get the numbers - he is perfectly capable of blocking anyone else getting caretaker PM position. He's already threatened it.
We then have an election, which Johnson would win, and we crash out on no deal in between
We then have an election, which Johnson would win, and we crash out on no deal in between
1) No more Mr Nice Guy
Remainer MPs, commentators etc - you *have* to be @petergeoghegan
Spiked online, right wing think tankers, Telegraph journalists - they are not here to debate #brexit - they're here to position tropes and spread uncertainty, to follow their instructions
Remainer MPs, commentators etc - you *have* to be @petergeoghegan
Spiked online, right wing think tankers, Telegraph journalists - they are not here to debate #brexit - they're here to position tropes and spread uncertainty, to follow their instructions
@petergeoghegan 2) these brexiter shills are not appearing on TV to contribute to the #Brexit debate but to stifle it
"Im from an Irish family so I think the GFA is no big deal" isn't a rational position, it's gaslighting, and should be treated as such
Call it out, call them out
"Im from an Irish family so I think the GFA is no big deal" isn't a rational position, it's gaslighting, and should be treated as such
Call it out, call them out
@petergeoghegan 3) "17.4 m voted" is not a #Brexit position, it's a distraction because the debate has moved on
"Parliament didn't deliver Brexit" is not a position as long as 50 odd Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit with May's deal
"Parliament didn't deliver Brexit" is not a position as long as 50 odd Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit with May's deal
1) There's many people, including many I have the deepest respect for, attacking the LDs over their Corbyn stance
Please, get a grip
It's *Corbyn*
He won't call it an interim government, or a GNU, or an interim..he'll call it a *Labour* government, and act like he's born to it
Please, get a grip
It's *Corbyn*
He won't call it an interim government, or a GNU, or an interim..he'll call it a *Labour* government, and act like he's born to it
2) in case anyone wasn't looking the entire Labour membership got screwed over in a shameful undermining of party democracy just 2 weeks ago
And you expect MPs to support him as parachuted in PM? And for him to act with humility and candour with a limited mandate on #Brexit?
And you expect MPs to support him as parachuted in PM? And for him to act with humility and candour with a limited mandate on #Brexit?
3) there's no debate on this, and theres no point blaming Joe Swinson
Corbyn *has* to step aside, or the Caretaker government will be a laughing stock
Please, get a grip, stop indulging him, it's just one man
Corbyn *has* to step aside, or the Caretaker government will be a laughing stock
Please, get a grip, stop indulging him, it's just one man
Re Corbyn and #brexit caretaker government
Either persuade about 50 MPs who are absolutely ideologically opposed to Corbyn to hold their noses, possibly vote against their party and install him
Or ask 1 MP to swallow his ego and step aside
I don't see why this is even a debate
Either persuade about 50 MPs who are absolutely ideologically opposed to Corbyn to hold their noses, possibly vote against their party and install him
Or ask 1 MP to swallow his ego and step aside
I don't see why this is even a debate
I mean you can spin this around "right as LOTO to be given first dibs" etc but ultimately, in any other walk of life persuading 1 person rather than 50 would be the obvious route
Corbyn's a grown up, he must see the polls, this is just being pragmatic
Corbyn's a grown up, he must see the polls, this is just being pragmatic
There's several candidates who will be seen as a safe pair of hands, can carry parliament & country in a temp. Government to get us past this crisis
Corbyn can't. It doesn't matter why he can't, he just can't - and the whole country is being held hostage
Corbyn can't. It doesn't matter why he can't, he just can't - and the whole country is being held hostage
This is the weak spot of #Brexit, its fatal flaw
Remainer MPs need to raise their game and get some *passion*
"Get Brexit done? Which Brexit?
No deal? Country doesn't want it
May's deal? You all blocked it
New Deal? Doesn't exist
Pick one for God's sake!"
Remainer MPs need to raise their game and get some *passion*
"Get Brexit done? Which Brexit?
No deal? Country doesn't want it
May's deal? You all blocked it
New Deal? Doesn't exist
Pick one for God's sake!"
"you've had 3 years for pity's sake and you still can't agree on a #Brexit deal even inside the Tory party never mind for the Country. For God's sake just pick something real rather than some Johnson fairy story and let's ask the people. Enough is enough"
1) #Brexit - the really obvious stinger
Numerous bright & articulate anti no dealers come on telly and get attacked by brexit supporters (whether MPs, commentators or the public) for "blocking Brexit"
Why do they never shut this down with "but Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit!"
Numerous bright & articulate anti no dealers come on telly and get attacked by brexit supporters (whether MPs, commentators or the public) for "blocking Brexit"
Why do they never shut this down with "but Brexit MPs voted to stop Brexit!"
2) the oversimplified view is "get #Brexit done"
The reality is - which brexit? Because brexiters can't decide on one
So May's deal was Brexit, it stopped free movement, it had the red lines
The ERG voted against it, they voted against Brexit
The reality is - which brexit? Because brexiters can't decide on one
So May's deal was Brexit, it stopped free movement, it had the red lines
The ERG voted against it, they voted against Brexit
3) now as remainers we all know why the hard brexiters hate May's deal, and as a Remainer I hate it as well.
But the point is, it *was* Brexit, and the hard brexiters *did* vote against it, and if they hadn't, we'd have left by now
But the point is, it *was* Brexit, and the hard brexiters *did* vote against it, and if they hadn't, we'd have left by now
1) #Brexit deal Window
commentators like @Dpjhodges are deliberately missing the point
52% voted for #Brexit, but there is no feasible brexit they could all get behind
Which means remainers are expected to step in to support something they don't believe in
It doesn't work
commentators like @Dpjhodges are deliberately missing the point
52% voted for #Brexit, but there is no feasible brexit they could all get behind
Which means remainers are expected to step in to support something they don't believe in
It doesn't work
@DPJHodges 2) let's move the #Brexit window (the deal which a majority can get behind) all the way over to No deal
Yes there might be as much as 35% of the country behind this, a lot of MPs, certainly the ERG
But nowhere near a majority - and any deal must have a majority
So we move left
Yes there might be as much as 35% of the country behind this, a lot of MPs, certainly the ERG
But nowhere near a majority - and any deal must have a majority
So we move left
@DPJHodges 3) We move the #Brexit window towards May's deal, or even all the way towards a Norway/Soft Brexit deal...yes you start pulling in the moderate Brexit supporters and even some remainers who can live with this
But you are shedding Brexiters faster than you can take on Remainers
But you are shedding Brexiters faster than you can take on Remainers
@Peston the faithful Johnson Retainer part 3
1) a few weeks ago I ranted on the cozy, soft lighting, barely present "interview" #peston gave Johnson, and the contrast with his heckling of other politicians, even laughing off Johnson's self serving nature
1) a few weeks ago I ranted on the cozy, soft lighting, barely present "interview" #peston gave Johnson, and the contrast with his heckling of other politicians, even laughing off Johnson's self serving nature
#Lab19
It was the same last year, and the year before
@UKLabour remainers, you can composite, and posture, and tweet all you want
But until you have the integrity to displace Corbyn Labour will be a #Brexit party, who's leadership will torpedo remain
huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/len-mccl…
It was the same last year, and the year before
@UKLabour remainers, you can composite, and posture, and tweet all you want
But until you have the integrity to displace Corbyn Labour will be a #Brexit party, who's leadership will torpedo remain
huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/len-mccl…
1) Reality of GE choices & Labour #Brexit policy
Below is the proposed Labour #Brexit policy
So the first thing to say about it is it's fundamentally a lie, dishonest from beginning to end, and is likely a pro #Brexit policy
There is no "close relationship to" the SM
Below is the proposed Labour #Brexit policy
So the first thing to say about it is it's fundamentally a lie, dishonest from beginning to end, and is likely a pro #Brexit policy
There is no "close relationship to" the SM
2) now of course many of my fellow remainers will be shocked at that statement and will say, quite rightly, that we need to get Labour support to fight #Brexit
That's true, but Labour's position remains dishonest, whether we need them or not
That's true, but Labour's position remains dishonest, whether we need them or not
3) firstly, it's clearly nonsense to talk about workers rights & green alignment with the EU because this cannot be protected between governments, a new Tory government could sweep all of that away
1) what choice do the LDs have? Corbyn is making Remain ridiculous
Again, I'd ask people to take a deep breath. The issue is not the LDs #RevokeA50 position, because no other position is possible, and Corbyn's #Brexit position is ridiculous
Whether @joswinson says so or not
Again, I'd ask people to take a deep breath. The issue is not the LDs #RevokeA50 position, because no other position is possible, and Corbyn's #Brexit position is ridiculous
Whether @joswinson says so or not
@joswinson 2) a reminder - Corbyn will negotiate some unspecified (and unrealistic) deal
And then will neither campaign for or against it
He'll call a Referendum, and be neutral on the outcome
Just look at how ridiculous that appears
And then will neither campaign for or against it
He'll call a Referendum, and be neutral on the outcome
Just look at how ridiculous that appears
@joswinson 3) I get the earnest arguments about how it's the most democratic, how it brings the country together, how it's honourable...
But it's just full of holes
But it's just full of holes
uberBrexiters - those who have moved to an ever more extreme #Brexit position such that anything other than the hardest of hard Brexits is treason
uberRemainers - those who wanted to Remain and still want to Remain, thus keeping the status quo
Yes, exactly the same extremists
uberRemainers - those who wanted to Remain and still want to Remain, thus keeping the status quo
Yes, exactly the same extremists
uberArsonists - used to want to burn some stuff, now want to burn everything
uberAntiArsonists - anti burning anything because it's damaging & pointless
Moderates - those ok with burning some stuff because the uberArsonists seem pretty ticked off
uberAntiArsonists - anti burning anything because it's damaging & pointless
Moderates - those ok with burning some stuff because the uberArsonists seem pretty ticked off
If I'm against hanging Lewis then I'm just against hanging, full stop. I don't become an uberAntihanger just because the pro hanging movement has started random lynchings & the ones in the middle say "well, they seem pretty committed to this hanging lark"
Labour & LDs on #Brexit - optics
1) I really think people need to take a deep breath and think about the reality of the optics on the Labour position - and why the LDs are for #RevokeA50
Labour's policy is logical, rational, fair...
...and will be shredded in 30 seconds on TV
1) I really think people need to take a deep breath and think about the reality of the optics on the Labour position - and why the LDs are for #RevokeA50
Labour's policy is logical, rational, fair...
...and will be shredded in 30 seconds on TV
2) it comes down to the single fatal flaw in the #PeoplesVote approach, what is the other option to Remain
If you are not in power you can, though it's not easy, argue it's Brexiter responsibility to pick the leave deal in a ref
"Give us your best shot"
If you are not in power you can, though it's not easy, argue it's Brexiter responsibility to pick the leave deal in a ref
"Give us your best shot"
3) but if you are in power, it's on *you* to define the alternative to Remain. And what is it? Your own version of a deal?
But then if you campaign for that deal, you are a Brexiter party, if you campaign against your own deal, you look ridiculous
And if you remain neutral?
But then if you campaign for that deal, you are a Brexiter party, if you campaign against your own deal, you look ridiculous
And if you remain neutral?
Can we have a Labour #Brexit reality check please?
1) lot of good people getting themselves all bent out of shape on the #LibDems policy of #RevokeA50 without really absorbing that this is all about Labour zigzagging on a #FinalSay
It's Corbyn's fault for demanding a GE!
1) lot of good people getting themselves all bent out of shape on the #LibDems policy of #RevokeA50 without really absorbing that this is all about Labour zigzagging on a #FinalSay
It's Corbyn's fault for demanding a GE!
2) a reminder of recent history.
Anti #Brexit/no deal groups focused on a #PeoplesVote 2 years ago. Labour conference last year tried to push Corbyn into an unambiguous PV stance with a ton of CLPs putting motions forward - they were sidelined
Anti #Brexit/no deal groups focused on a #PeoplesVote 2 years ago. Labour conference last year tried to push Corbyn into an unambiguous PV stance with a ton of CLPs putting motions forward - they were sidelined
3) the Labour powers that be morphed 100s of "we want a PV" motions into "we want a GE, if we can't get that, we look at other options, one of which might be a PV"
This happened - and it allowed Corbyn to fuck about for 2 years
This happened - and it allowed Corbyn to fuck about for 2 years
Couple of points on latest "outrages"
1) vote Tory in a GE - Vote for some undefined fantasy position between no deal & a great deal
Vote Labour - Vote for some undefined position between a great deal & remain via a referendum
Vote Lib Dem - Vote for Remain
#Brexit
1) vote Tory in a GE - Vote for some undefined fantasy position between no deal & a great deal
Vote Labour - Vote for some undefined position between a great deal & remain via a referendum
Vote Lib Dem - Vote for Remain
#Brexit
2) if Lib Dems get a majority, it's a new, fresh democratic mandate for Remain that overrides the 2016 Ref
If Tories or Labour get a majority, it's not a mandate for anything that can be defined because they won based on an unknown - that great deal that hasn't been defined
If Tories or Labour get a majority, it's not a mandate for anything that can be defined because they won based on an unknown - that great deal that hasn't been defined
1) Interesting piece on how an hard left activist became a #Brexit Party candidate
From what I can make out, he just enjoys being on the fringes, being an agitator, and sees himself as a "free thinker" (whilst ignoring the many issues with Farage)
theguardian.com/politics/2019/…
From what I can make out, he just enjoys being on the fringes, being an agitator, and sees himself as a "free thinker" (whilst ignoring the many issues with Farage)
theguardian.com/politics/2019/…
2) this matches my own experience of SWP types in Uni, a mix of rich kids guilty about privilege and agitator types who just used the gloss of SWP to give them an excuse to disrupt, be edgy & be on the fringes
There's a subset of people who just want to break things
There's a subset of people who just want to break things
3) it's not surprising that Lexit is a thing on the far left, nor that those far lefters can switch to #Brexit. It's the joy of breaking things, of being "right" when 90% are wrong. The politics don't matter.
Staggering lack of self awareness from the interviewee
Staggering lack of self awareness from the interviewee
This is how corrupted our politics has become
1) Brexiter MPs are raging about the Scottish court declared the parliament shut down was illegal because it was about Brexit, *even though* their main defence was that the shut down was standard & had nothing to do with #Brexit?
1) Brexiter MPs are raging about the Scottish court declared the parliament shut down was illegal because it was about Brexit, *even though* their main defence was that the shut down was standard & had nothing to do with #Brexit?
2) I'm not even sure how to write this it's so convoluted
We all know the parliament shut down was about #Brexit
The brexiters are upset with the court for this very reason, and are attacking the judges, again
Yet their PM insists that the shutdown is *not* about Brexit
We all know the parliament shut down was about #Brexit
The brexiters are upset with the court for this very reason, and are attacking the judges, again
Yet their PM insists that the shutdown is *not* about Brexit
Twitter break, quick thread
1) need to take a break from Twitter for real life stuff, and this seems as good a time as any
FWIW I think we are in a better place than we were a few weeks ago, even with the parliament shut down,so here's some thoughts before I go
#Brexit
1) need to take a break from Twitter for real life stuff, and this seems as good a time as any
FWIW I think we are in a better place than we were a few weeks ago, even with the parliament shut down,so here's some thoughts before I go
#Brexit
2) Johnson's efforts to bounce us out on no deal have been well and truly blocked. The snap GE isn't going to happen, he's been embarrassed, and despite his bluster he will be forced to obey the law.
There is growing disquiet in the Tory ranks (though shockingly, not enough)
There is growing disquiet in the Tory ranks (though shockingly, not enough)
3) ...and in fact the number of 1 nation Tories prepared to keep their heads down is frankly disgusting, but there you go, perhaps there's a plan for tactical resignations
@UKLabour MPs
1) Keep the message simple
"We cannot trust Johnson. He's talking about breaking the law. Whatever date we agreed for the election he would just move it till after the 31st October, and we crash out, no deal, in the middle of an election. He cannot be trusted"
1) Keep the message simple
"We cannot trust Johnson. He's talking about breaking the law. Whatever date we agreed for the election he would just move it till after the 31st October, and we crash out, no deal, in the middle of an election. He cannot be trusted"
2) and follow up with the narrative:
"This isnt about a GE. Johnson doesn't care about a GE in the same way he doesn't want a 2nd Ref. But his ERG masters desperately want a no deal #Brexit and they'll shut down parliament, break the law or even throw a GE as a scheme to get it"
"This isnt about a GE. Johnson doesn't care about a GE in the same way he doesn't want a 2nd Ref. But his ERG masters desperately want a no deal #Brexit and they'll shut down parliament, break the law or even throw a GE as a scheme to get it"
3) we're going to *lose* this if you can't push the "anti democratic" smear onto Johnson
Please, gloves off, be assertive, land the messages
Johnson is calling a GE as a trick, because Cummings painted him into a corner
He's degrading the process of a GE for his own obsession
Please, gloves off, be assertive, land the messages
Johnson is calling a GE as a trick, because Cummings painted him into a corner
He's degrading the process of a GE for his own obsession
#Marr
Please RT this video
1) 150k people now know that the #Brexit company:
Has no members, all you can do is give them money
Has no way of voting on policy (how do you "consult supporters" in any meaningful, transparent way?)
And that Farage is Leader for life
Please RT this video
1) 150k people now know that the #Brexit company:
Has no members, all you can do is give them money
Has no way of voting on policy (how do you "consult supporters" in any meaningful, transparent way?)
And that Farage is Leader for life
2) #marr a few comments on Farage's words:
"Can you be voted out as leader?"
"Not at the moment"
No, not ever, as per the constitution of the #Brexit company & by design Farage can *never* be voted out, he is the chief executive of the company for life
"Can you be voted out as leader?"
"Not at the moment"
No, not ever, as per the constitution of the #Brexit company & by design Farage can *never* be voted out, he is the chief executive of the company for life
3) is there any party democracy?
No, Farage got tired of democracy failing to make the "right decision" so he dropped all of it in the #Brexit Company
Also, members vote on policy in a ballot, no-one "consults supporters" in a mystical fashion and calls it democracy
No, Farage got tired of democracy failing to make the "right decision" so he dropped all of it in the #Brexit Company
Also, members vote on policy in a ballot, no-one "consults supporters" in a mystical fashion and calls it democracy
1) Up to 100k more people know by this evening that the #Brexit Party does not allow members, that you cannot influence only hand over cash & that Farage is Leader for life, cannot be deposed & was "tired of party democracy"
Please keep tweeting the shocking video below and...
Please keep tweeting the shocking video below and...
2) ...and either RT the thread below & challenge your MPs and representatives or better still, tweet your own variations - get them highlighting this
I've been shocked by how many people have said "I had no idea" - this is important
#Brexit
I've been shocked by how many people have said "I had no idea" - this is important
#Brexit
3) Kudos to @Haggis_UK for the clip
