Thread by @wang_seaver

Speaking for myself, I regularly read writing from the degrowth side.

When degrowthers get criticized, they claim critics are misrepresenting degrowth.

"That's not degrowth! Degrowth is more planned, just, equitable than that!"

But there's no foundation. The box is hollow. (1)

https://twitter.com/ii_sambliss/status/1345396176061915139

It's so damn hard to get a straight answer from degrowthers about what real degrowth policies would look like.

What is "excessive" growth or consumption? If it's these planetary boundaries, can I question why it's white European countries that score highest on those metrics? (2)

At the international level, are degrowth measures voluntary, or imposed?

If imposed via carbon border taxes and the like, who does the imposing and how?

If voluntary, what do you do when China laughs you out of the negotiating hall? (3)

How do you equitably allocate flight vouchers or gasoline nationally or internationally?

How do you redistrubute global weath at the international level without the project getting utterly derailed by bribery + corruption at every intervening level of government? (4)

What does the model legislation for an equitable ban on public commercial advertising look like? How does it hold up in courts? When advertising quickly moves to social media influencing in response, what is the policy recourse? (5)

I could go on, but the answer is that degrowthers have no real answers, just aspirational handwaving in deliberately vague terms.

Degrowthers: "Why are you demanding policy perfection?"

We're not. We're asking for *basic* specifics here. (6)

Degrowthers: "Well clearly your criticisms show that you haven't read our work deeply enough yet."

Um, are degrowthers really trying to "save the world" then, or just sell books and promote reading clubs? (7)

Degrowth has the obligation to supply proof-of-concept.

Degrowthers must convince virtually every nat'l govt/pop, and those waves of revolution must supposedly happen on timetables consistent w climate targets.

And yet degrowthers always demand that others do more reading? (8)

Forgive me for being skeptical that we just need to strive our utmost and liberate our minds from what's politically feasible when we can't even ban landmines or cluster munitions internationally.

I don't care how perfect your ideology is on paper. (9)

What @TedNordhaus, @atrembath wrote in the piece in question is correct. Degrowth remains utterly irrelevant.

I'll note the climate policies of the EU, Korea, Japan, China, the incoming Biden admin + more are ALL explicitly built on green growth. (10)

thebreakthrough.org/issues/energy/…

Lastly, I really have to wonder if degrowth is ephemeral and vague by design, to allow criticism to be deflected with the accusation that the critics don't really understand the theory - a defense enabled by the fact that there's nothing substantive inside to begin with. (END)