Thread by @UR_Ninja

Day 25 coverage of the Derek Chauvin trial in Minneapolis is starting now - please tune in! twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1…

Nelson requested an acquittal this morning, which Judge Cahill denied. Now the court is going over Morries Hall's potential testimony.

Hall's attorney is arguing that all of the questions that the defense wants to ask Hall could incriminate him, so he "cannot answer any of those questions."

Hall now steps up to the podium in the court room. Judge Cahill reminds him that it is his choice whether to testify or not, and that he doesn't have to listen to his lawyer. Hall invokes his fifth amendment right, and the Judge accepts it and squashes the subpoena.

The court is in a break until 9:15.

Court is back. The defense calls Dr. David Fowler to the witness stand.

Dr. Fowler was full-time in forensic pathology before his retirement. He worked at the office of the chief medical examiner in Maryland.

Fowler explains his education, including his college education in Cape Town, South Africa. Then he moved to the U.S. and took further courses in Maryland.

He describes the process to get accredited with a medical license in the U.S. if you have studied in foreign countries.

Fowler says a pathologist works in a laboratory in a hospital, that they analyze blood, urine, biopsy samples, etc.

Fowler was the Chief Medical Examiner in Maryland for many years. He says that one office covered the entire state--6 million people.

He has also taught college courses and taught at the FBI academy.

Fowler managed and supervised the fellow/residency program at the office.

Fowler has testified 100s of times in court cases.

He shares that he has about 100 publications.

Fowler is involved with the Forensics Panel. It's an organization that evaluates cases. Fowler is a forensic pathologist consultant in the organization.

He specifies that it's an independent organization. Fowler regularly looks at the jury when speaking.

Fowler was asked to join the panel 15 years ago. He shares that he got involved with this case because Nelson approached him about it.

Nelson asks Fowler about NAME (National Association of Medical Examiners). Fowler is in a committee within NAME, he also says how he used to be in the standards committee.

The initial standards started in 2005, but Fowler says they continue to change over time because medical knowledge changes.

Fowler goes over what he looks at during a death investigation--goes over the scene, hospital records, past medical info, police reports, videos, witness interviews, specimens, clothes, etc.

Almost 3 years prior to George Floyd's death, Anton Black was held down on the ground struggling to breathe by police officers in Maryland. Fowler classified Black’s death as an accident.

The circumstances of May 25, 2020 are very similar. Fowler explains all of the evidence and data he reviewed for this particular case.

Nelson asks Fowler to go over death certificates. Fowler says there are two parts. Part one says the direct cause of death. Part two says contributing causes.

Nelson asks Fowler's opinion about how Floyd's heart and drug use affected Floyd. Fowler says he would define the factors as why Floyd died suddenly.

Fowler says Floyd's heart disease caused his death. He mentions possible carbon monoxide poisoning from the squad car exhaust also.

Nelson asks how NAME deals with positional asphyxia and restraint. Fowler says the NAME manual says it may be classified as homicide.

Fowler goes over the NAME guidelines for death classification. He says how the classifications are meant for epidemiology and for statistics.

Nelson asks Fowler's opinions on Floyd's heart size. Fowler says his heart is enlarged. He cites the Molina and Mayo study.

Nelson asks how the size of the heart effects the heart's health. Fowler says if the heart grows in size, the consumption of what it needs grows in size also.

Nelson asks what happens to a person if they experience a lack of supply. Fowler says organs have some reserve in place to maintain function, but he says the brain's reserve is only 10-15 seconds.

Fowler says reserves are replenished through the coronary arteries. Nelson asks what symptoms show when someone is in short supply. Fowler says heart is racing, shortness of breath, chest pain, sudden symptoms like a collapse.

Fowler says if someone doesn't react to their symptoms, they can die from sudden cardiac arrest or sudden cardiac arrhythmia.

Fowler says the biggest cause of an enlarged heart is hypertension. He says he saw previous medical records of Floyd that he had high blood pressure.

Neslon asks about narrowing of arteries. Fowler says it's when the diameter of the arteries is smaller than it should be.

Nelson asks how drugs may effect narrowing. Fowler says some drugs can advance narrowing. He also mentions cigarettes and air pollution can.

Nelson steers Fowler back to drugs. He asks what type of drugs. Fowler says in this case methamphetamine.

Nelson asks if there is a certain number that pathologists use that is deadly. Fowler says that number is at least 75%. He mentions how George Floyd was able to live his regular life walking around with one artery at 90% narrowing.

Fowler says if someone dies suddenly from narrowing of arteries, they don't always have damage to their heart muscle or myocyte necrosis.

Nelson continues to ask Fowler questions about the heart, even though Fowler is not a cardiologist.

Fowler says 90% narrowing in the right coronary artery can cause sudden death.

Fowler explains how the right side is like a pace maker. Nelson asks about exertion. Fowler says as we exercise, our heart rate and breath rate increase.

Nelson asks how methamphetamine comes into play as far as the conduction system. Fowler says it can cause the heart to have arrhythmias and increase heart rate. He also says it can cause vasoconstriction, or narrowing of blood vessels.

Nelson asks if Fowler or his colleagues have ever certified a death from a sudden heart failure. Fowler says yes.

Nelson asks if Fowler has perceived cause of death prior to the autopsy, but then after the autopsy the direct cause seems to be something different. Nelson asks if Fowler has determined certain causes of death before.

Nelson asks about stress. Fowler says stress causes the sympathetic nervous system to act, which can release adrenaline. Adrenaline causes some blood vessels to constrict.

Nelson brings up the Floyd 2019 arrest. He says that when the paramedics arrived on the scene, Floyd had high blood pressure. He asks for Fowler's opinion on that.

Fowler says it could mean his blood pressure was out of hand and that he was stressed out, but that the blood pressure was extra high.

Again, almost 4 years ago Fowler classified a similar circumstance to George Floyd's as an accident. 19-yr-old Anton Black was held down on the ground struggling to breathe by 3 police officers in Maryland. Fowler ruled it a “sudden cardiac death” classified as an accident.

Court is in break until 11:10 a.m. Thanks for tuning in to our live tweets.

Court is back. Fowler talks again about carbon monoxide poisoning and how Floyd's head was near the squad's tail pipe. Nelson asks if he's arguing that carbon monoxide caused Floyd's death. Fowler says no.

Nelson shows an exhibit and asks Fowler if he can tell if the car is running. Blackwell calls for a sidebar.

Blackwell objected and Judge Cahill overruled. Nelson continues questioning a forensic pathologist about car exhaust.

Fowler talks about how car exhaust can be poisonous, but especially bad for people with heart problems.

Nelson asks if Fowler is familiar with literature about carbon monoxide poisoning. He also asks if he's aware of CDC's guidelines. Fowler brings up EPA's guidelines.

Fowler created the power point slides being shown as an exhibit. The slide shown here is from the World Health Organization guidelines. Nelson asks if Fowler is a car mechanic, and he says no.

Nelson asks again if Fowler is arguing that Floyd died from CO poisoning. Fowler says not exclusively. Nelson asks Fowler if Floyd's blood was tested for CO poisoning, he says he doesn't think so.

Nelson has been questioning Fowler about CO for 25 minutes.

Fowler says the only way to eliminate CO as a contributing factor in Floyd's death would be to test his blood.

Fowler says that the officers may not have felt symptoms because they were farther away. He says they were also hopefully younger and didn't have heart disease.

Nelson asks if Fowler considered positional asphyxia, which he says yes. He refers to a report by Dr. Reay.

Nelson asks if people sometimes sleep in the prone position. Fowler says yes. Nelson asks if during medical treatments people are sometimes put in a prone position. Fowler says yes.

Nelson asks generally if a person lays down on the street with nothing on top of them, if that's dangerous. Fowler says no.

Fowler brings up the study that has been brought up in this case prior--when volunteers laid on mats inside with weights equally distributed on their back. Fowler says the study states that positional asphyxia is not caused by being in the prone position.

Nelson asks about a human pyramid. "Lots of people piled on top, somebody's gotta be on the bottom, right?"

Nelson brings up criticism that this particular study wasn't done in the real world. He asks Fowler if there are other studies done in the real world. Fowler says yes.

Fowler brings up two real world studies on police putting people in the prone position. He doesn't mention for how long the police were placing people in the position, nor if the police in the study were kneeling on the people's necks.

Fowler mentions another study testing if the weight of someone on top of another makes a difference. Fowler says the weight doesn't make a difference.

Nelson asks about the placement of Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck. He asks Fowler if the structure of the neck was damaged. Fowler says nothing vital was damaged.

Fowler says when looking at the autopsy photographs, there was no evidence of damage around the neck area.

In terms of the knee, Nelson asks how that related to injury and force. Fowler refers to his power point slide showing knee anatomy. He explains pressure from a knee as unforgiving. He reiterates how he didn't see bruising on Floyd.

Nelson asks if Fowler would expect for knee and shin pressure to have more bruising than from hand strangulation. Fowler says yes.

Fowler describes symptoms of hypoxia--lack of oxygen. He says you can see spots or a gray curtain coming down.

Nelson asks if having shortness of breath is a sign of hypoxia. Fowler says it can be, but many things can cause shortness of breath.

Nelson asks if Fowler saw Floyd acting confused in the videos he saw. (didn't catch answer, video cut temporarily).

Fowler says moving air in and out and speaking and making noise is very good evidence that the airway was not closed. He says how he can hum with his mouth closed.

Blackwell objects and asks for sidebar. Judge Cahill overrules and says Nelson can continue. A few seconds later Blackwell objects again and the judge overrules again.

Nelson asks if hypoxia is typically a fast or slow process. Fowler says it can be either. Then he says the onset of hypoxia is gradual.

Nelson asks if he believes Floyd was suffering from hypoxia, which Fowler says no. He says he would expect Floyd to be confused.

Nelson asks about how hypoxia works. Fowler says when the blood cannot oxygenate, then the brain is first affected.

Fowler says Floyd was active and coherent and then suddenly went unconscious. He attributes his finding to a sudden cardiac event.

Fowler goes over the evidence that went into his finding--heart size, narrowing arteries, drugs, vasoconstriction.

In terms of the toxicology in this case, Nelson asks Fowler to go over his thoughts as a forensic pathologist. Fowler says it slows down breathing and would lessen oxygen in the blood.

Nelson shows Fowler body-worn camera images.

He asks for the three images to be submitted. He first shows an image of the first interaction between ex-Officer Lane and Floyd where Lane points his gun at Floyd. Fowler says in the back of Floyd's mouth there is a white pill.

Nelson asks how the depression of the respiratory rate affects the heart. Fowler says less oxygen goes into the lungs, so the ability to oxygenate blood slows.

Nelson asks how Fowler would look at the use of methamphetamine as a forensic pathologist. He says it increases heart rate and blood pressure.

Nelson asks about the metabolism of the drugs in Floyd's system. He asks if Floyd would have been able to take the drugs inside the squad car. Fowler says his hands were handcuffed behind his back, so no.

Nelson shifts to paraganglioma. Fowler says it was found in Floyd's body during his autopsy. He these tumors can secrete adrenaline.

Nelson asks for Fowler's findings on the manner of Floyd's death. He says CO, which can be accidental or because someone was holding him there it could be considered a homicide, the drugs, the paraganglioma, etc. He would rule the manner of death as undetermined.

Nelson finished his direct-examination. Judge Cahill excused the jury and Fowler. Nelson brings up a sidebar objection by the state of Fowler's testimony. Cahill says he will let a rebuttal testimony by the state to Fowler's testimony.

Lunch break until 1:30 p.m. central. Thanks for tuning in.

Here is our stream for the second half of today. Court will resume shortly. twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1…

Court is back. Now Blackwell steps up to the podium for the prosecution for their cross-examination.

Blackwell first asks about Fowler's beliefs on being objective and fair when being an expert witness. Fowler agrees.

Blackwell brings up Chauvin's weight. He asks where Fowler got the information on his weight. Fowler says from the defense counsel. Blackwell asks if he considered the equipment Chauvin was wearing. Fowler says no.

Blackwell brings up the long questioning of Carbon Monoxide. He asks if there was evidence of CO poisoning, and Fowler said no.

Blackwell asks if Fowler knows what kind of car the squad car was. He says yes. He has Fowler confirm that the squad car was a hybrid, he confirms.

Nelson asks for sidebar, which is granted.

Blackwell asks if there were findings of CO poisoning during Baker's autopsy. Fowler says there were not.

Blackwell brings up the EPA CO guideline which Fowler showed in his power point slides. Fowler confirms that there was no data pertaining to Floyd and CO.

Blackwell asks if he knows that the squad car was on. Fowler says that from seeing liquid on the ground and possibly dripping from the vehicle, he assumed it was on.

Blackwell asks Fowler about the CO studies he brought up. Fowler confirmed that the studies didn't specify for how long people were exposed to CO.

Blackwell brings up the body-worn camera footage image that Nelson showed Fowler when he observed an alleged white pill in Floyd's mouth.

Blackwell plays a clip from inside Cup Foods and asks Fowler if he sees Floyd chewing. Fowler says he sees his mouth open and close. Blackwell shows Fowler a screen shot of Floyd's face in Cup Foods. He asks if it looks similar to what was in his mouth in the car. He says yes.

When Nelson questioned Fowler, they spoke about a study about positional asphyxia and Fowler mentioned how the author recanted their statement. Blackwell reads a quote from the author where they say otherwise.

The judge asked for a quick sidebar. Blackwell continues asking about Dr. Reay's non-recantation. In an affidavit by Dr. Reay, he wrote that there is a difference between street positional asphyxia and inside positional asphyxia.

Fowler confirms that he is not a pulmonologist, cardiologist, or toxicologist.

Blackwell brings up the Forensic Panel. He asks if it is a nonprofit. Fowler says he doesn't believe so.

Blackwell asks if it's a business. Fowler says it's a forensic and medical practice, which are businesses.

Blackwell asks if Fowler agrees that positional asphyxia is when someone is on the ground and they cannot access enough oxygen because of the position they're in. Fowler agrees. Blackwell says you have to be able to expand your chest to breathe. Fowler agrees.

Blackwell asks if Fowler evaluated the position of Chauvin's knee on Floyd. Fowler says he watched the videos. Blackwell asks if he saw Chauvin kneel on Floyd's neck. Fowler says yes.

Blackwell asks if someone goes unconscious because they're being knelt on, and the person continues kneeling for four minutes, does it cause irreversible effects? Fowler says yes.

Fowler seems a bit flustered during Blackwell's cross-examination. Blackwell has had to remind him a few times to answer "yes" or "no."

Blackwell brings forth a textbook that is a common read for forensic pathologists. He brings up the sections of positional asphyxia in the book. He also has Fowler recall that he said earlier that finding bruises and marks is common.

Blackwell brings up that in the text it says the majority of times when someone dies of positional asphyxia there are no physical markings or bruising.

Blackwell brings forth another book to disprove something that Fowler said in his direct-examination.

Blackwell asks if the scene information is important when it's unclear how someone became hypoxic--with insufficient oxygen.

Fowler confirms that the studies he brought up in direct-examination weren't as long as 9.5 minutes and didn't involve a knee on their neck.

Blackwell brings up a deposition that Fowler gave in a case called Curtis a few years ago. Blackwell reads from the deposition where Fowler wrote that the weight of multiple people on top of someone in the prone position could kill them.

Blackwell goes back to the first book he read from by Spitz and Fisher. He reads another part from the book and asks if Fowler agrees, Fowler does not agree, and he says that is their opinion and not medical fact.

Blackwell asks if the forces of multiple people on top of someone in the prone position would be symbiotic. Fowler agrees.

Blackwell asks if Fowler saw some of the previous medical testimony and if he saw that many testified about how Floyd died of positional asphyxia due to Chauvin's restraint and weight on him. Fowler says he saw that.

Blackwell asks if Fowler remembers looking at physiology journals about the connection between the hypopharynx and the ability to breathe. Fowler says no because nothing came up in the search.

Blackwell asks if Fowler counted Floyd's breaths in the videos. Fowler says no. Blackwell asks if Fowler did any evaluation of the lessening of Floyd's lung volume while in the prone position. Fowler says no.

Blackwell asks if Fowler would agree that pressure on the soft side of the neck also narrows the hypopharynx. Blackwell says if he's asking the wrong person to let him know. Fowler says that he didn't find that in his research.

Blackwell brings up how Fowler considers Floyd's death "sudden." Blackwell asks if Fowler remembers hearing Floyd say he can't breathe, Fowler agrees. Blackwell asks if Fowler heard a change in Floyd's voice and in the spacing of his words. Fowler says he noticed the spacing.

Blackwell asks if there is a time stamp where this "sudden death" happened. Fowler says he didn't record an exact time. Blackwell asks for a general characterization.

Fowler says he is referring to a sudden cardiac arrest not sudden death, which are different. Fowler says the moment of death is not something you can easily document. Blackwell asks if Fowler is suggesting that Floyd could have been revived.

Fowler says yes if immediate medical attention happened. Blackwell asked if he believes the officers should have done emergency medical aid on Floyd when he was in cardiac arrest, Fowler agrees.

Blackwell asks if low oxygen in the brain can cause brain damage and pulseless electrical activity. Fowler agrees. Blackwell asks if the most common cause of PEA is low oxygen, which Fowler agree.

Blackwell brings up how he has a series of questions about quantitative analysis of the oxygen reserves and lung volume of Floyd, but he asks if Fowler agrees that he should really ask a pulmonologist. Fowler agrees.

Blackwell brings up how he has questions about carbon monoxide in Floyd, but that he should also ask someone who isn't a forensic pathologist for these. Fowler agrees.

Blackwell asks if it's true that there are only 6 cases of someone in medical literature dying from the adrenaline secretions from a paraganglioma. Fowler confirms.

Blackwell brings up how Nelson asked him how Floyd said he couldn't breathe before being in the prone position. Blackwell asks if he noticed if Floyd was being choked during that time. Fowler says he doesn't remember.

Blackwell offers stills from a video where Chauvin is choking Floyd inside the squad car.

Blackwell asks if Floyd seemed sleepy and unarousable, Fowler says no. Blackwell brings up how those are overdose symptoms of fentanyl.

Blackwell brings up methamphetamines. He asks how in Dr. Baker's autopsy, there were no pills or partial pills found in his stomach. Fowler agrees.

Blackwell brings up any findings of metabolite from methampthetamine in Floyd's blood stream. A small amount was found, meaning Floyd had metabolized the small amount of methamphetamine that was in his system.

Blackwell has Fowler confirm when Floyd said his last word and had his last movements. Blackwell is done questioning. Break until 3:10 p.m. central.

Court is back. Nelson is re-directing. Nelson asks about the weight of Chauvin and his equipment. Nelson asks if Fowler received any weights of the equipment. Fowler says no.

Nelson asks if Fowler has ruled on positional asphyxia in the past, he says yes.

Nelson asks if Fowler's report for this case included any CO or CO2 evidence. Fowler says yes. Nelson asks if Fowler saw photographs of the squad car near the tail pipe. Fowler says yes.

Nelson asks if Fowler knows for certain what was in Floyd's mouth in the Cup Food video shown by Blackwell. Fowler says he cannot.

Nelson asks about the pills found it the squad car and if Fowler is aware of the tests done on the drugs. Fowler says yes.

Nelson asks about Dr. Reay's affidavit, which Blackwell read from during cross-examination.

Nelson asks if it would be helpful for Fowler to look at the affidavit and put the statements Blackwell read into context. Fowler now looks over affidavit.

Nelson asks for the context of the statements. Fowler says it is not specifically stated as to why Dr. Reay wrote the affidavit. Nelson asks Fowler to mention other parts of the affidavit that stick out to him. He reads how the affidavit specifies a 200+ pound person.

Nelson brings up the 4-minute time period when Floyd was unconscious. He asks Fowler to expand. He says anything that stops oxygen from getting to the brain can cause irreversible damage.

Nelson asks about the placement of Chauvin's knee. Fowler says that he doesn't believe Chauvin's knee was cutting off Floyd's artery. He also says even if one side was cut off, the other side of the neck would be able to work.

Nelson asks about a study in individuals with cardio pulmonary disease. He asks if Fowler read it, he says he believes he does.

Nelson asks about the deposition that Blackwell brought up and read from that Fowler wrote for a case a few years ago. Fowler reiterates that he was explaining how two people discovered a way to kill people without leaving marks to get cadavers for medical research.

Nelson asks if Fowler was aware of any pulmonologists measuring Floyd's lung volume during the May 25 incident. Fowler says no.

Nelson brings up the anoxic seizure in Floyd. Fowler agrees that happened in Floyd, and it is a common symptom of hypoxia.

Nelson asks Fowler if Chauvin is a physician of 27 years. Fowler says no.

Nelson admits that Fowler is not a pulmonologist, yet follows that by asking about lung volume and if it's variable in people.

Nelson asks if Fowler remembers Floyd saying that everything hurts. Fowler says yes.

Nelson brings up Blackwell's questions about Fowler's fairness and objectivity as a witness. Nelson asks if Fowler recalls Floyd saying "I can't breathe" during the time he was being choked in the squad car by Chauvin.

Nelson plays a 1-min video of Thao's body-worn camera footage. He asks Fowler when he heard Floyd say he couldn't breathe and asked if Chauvin's grasp around Floyd's neck in the squad car looked tight. Fowler said it looked loose.

Blackwell re-crosses. He asks if Fowler saw Floyd spit out any pill while in the back of the squad car, Fowler said he didn't notice that.

Blackwell asks if Fowler views Floyd's passing after 9.5 minutes as related to Chauvin's subdual restraint of Floyd. Nelson objects and Judge Cahill sustains. Blackwell asks in another way and Nelson objects again and the judge sustains. Blackwell ends questioning.

Fowler is excused from the stand. After a short sidebar, Judge Cahill decides to hold-off on the next witness until tomorrow. Court is done for the day.

Court will resume tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. central. Thanks for tuning in to our coverage. Stay up-to-date on our trial coverage here: unicornriot.ninja/derek-chauvin-… If you appreciate our coverage, please consider a tax-deductible donation: unicornriot.ninja/donate/

Court will resume at 8:40 a.m. central including the motions before the jury is brought in.