We will be tweeting about today's #SpyCopsInquiry hearing - so will @tombfowler - or you can listen to what's said (and watch a moving transcript of the words) over at in about quarter of an hour...
#spycops
#spycops
https://twitter.com/ucpinquiry/status/1391676927006715909
@tombfowler Today we are hearing from a non-State core participant/ witness. She has been granted anonymity, so is known as 'Madeleine' – she will not be shown on screen but you can hear her voice.
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@tombfowler ‘Madeleine’ is the pseudonym of a woman who was deceived into an intimate relationship by an undercover officer, ‘Vince Miller’ in 1979, while she was an activist with the Socialist Workers Party.
She has not been provided with his real name.
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She has not been provided with his real name.
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@tombfowler Vince Miller (HN354, deployed 1976-1979) will be giving evidence to the Inquiry on Tuesday, 11th May.
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@tombfowler Madeleine is of a working class background, her family politicised through experience of poverty and World War I. Her parents were committed anti-fascists and her father was a trade unionist; they hugely inspired her.
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@tombfowler Her father was at the Battle of Cable Street in 1936, protesting Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists marching through a mainly Jewish area.
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@tombfowler In 1937 he was a volunteer in the Spanish Civil War as part of the anti-fascist International Brigades, and witnessed the bombing of Guernica.
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@tombfowler On returning to the UK he joined the British army in order to see Hitler defeated, not for patriotic reasons. He was at Dunkirk and fought in the Burma Campaign, including at Battle of Kohima.
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@tombfowler He was invalided out with would now be called PTSD.
Madeleine says "I am proud of my father and what he did to help defeat fascism."
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Madeleine says "I am proud of my father and what he did to help defeat fascism."
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@tombfowler After the army, he worked at Briggs Motor Body Company, later part of Fords. There he was a trade union activist, setting up a welfare fund for sick workers.
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@tombfowler He later broke his back and was unable to work for two years; he received no sick pay so the family depended on the welfare fund.
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@tombfowler The experience of hardship and family history shaped Madeleine’s political outlook. Early on she understood that capitalism was built on inequality and exploitation, and of the dangers of fascism.
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@tombfowler With a strong sense of justice she was politically active from her teens and deeply affected by American military action in the Vietnam War, and the images of that.
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@tombfowler She initially joined the Young Communist League then shortly after the International Socialist in 1968, when still a teenager.
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@tombfowler Madeleine provided a witness statement on 18th February 2021 – she wasn't given much time to do this, so now, upon reviewing it, has realised that there is some extra information she would like to include.
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@tombfowler She says she was about 15 when she joined the International Socialists (IS).
She left when she was a student and then rejoined later in the 70s.
It later became the Socialist Workers Party (SWP)
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She left when she was a student and then rejoined later in the 70s.
It later became the Socialist Workers Party (SWP)
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@tombfowler In the 1970s the far right were in ascent with neo-fascists openly attacking minority communities and murdering black and Asian men.
Though the SWP, Madeleine was involved in this movement opposing fascism.
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Though the SWP, Madeleine was involved in this movement opposing fascism.
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@tombfowler She joined the Walthamstow branch of the SWP in around 1973. This branch was spied on by 'Vince Miller' (HN354)
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@tombfowler She was asked if the aims of the SWP were to bring about a fair and just society through revolutionary rather than parliamentary means”?
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@tombfowler No, not quite! Madeleine explained that they saw parliament as a “useful forum” but believed that extra-parliamentary activity was essential, and increased democracy.
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@tombfowler She didn't believe that revolution was imminent in Britain in 1973. But they did want to dismantle the capitalist system.
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@tombfowler They hoped they would bring about this change via industrial/ trade union activity,
and “extend the class struggle”.
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and “extend the class struggle”.
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@tombfowler “We were not a terrorist group or a violent group. We wanted to build a mass movement”
She went on to explain how SWP members supported trade unions – she refuted the suggestion that they 'infiltrated' them.
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She went on to explain how SWP members supported trade unions – she refuted the suggestion that they 'infiltrated' them.
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@tombfowler They sold papers, they held public meetings, they went on demonstrations.
“perfectly legal and legitimate methods” she said.
She said the SWP were opposed to violence - as counter-productive - and even expelled Red Action from the party.
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“perfectly legal and legitimate methods” she said.
She said the SWP were opposed to violence - as counter-productive - and even expelled Red Action from the party.
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@tombfowler The branch was very large, so split in two in around 1977 – one covering Walthamstow & another covering Leyton/ Leystonstone
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@tombfowler All members were involved in selling papers, every week.
They had regular pitches in the markets on Saturdays, and on week-days would often sell papers outside factories, door to door on estates, and of course at any demos.
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They had regular pitches in the markets on Saturdays, and on week-days would often sell papers outside factories, door to door on estates, and of course at any demos.
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@tombfowler There were lots of demonstrations, about all sorts of issues, most weekends.
The group would also put up fly-posters, and leaflet, to let people know about the speaker meetings they organised.
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The group would also put up fly-posters, and leaflet, to let people know about the speaker meetings they organised.
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@tombfowler Hummerstone said she was trying to “gauge the commitment” required of SWP members?
Madeleine responded that “we were pretty dedicated”- "our lives revolved around politics and we socialised together as well, so our lives were very enmeshed”
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Madeleine responded that “we were pretty dedicated”- "our lives revolved around politics and we socialised together as well, so our lives were very enmeshed”
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@tombfowler “We had a message to spread; we had a world to build” she recollected.
She described her house as a large flat-share, with a huge living room and kitchen, four bedrooms, close to two popular clubs in Walthamstow, it was often used as a socialising space by party members.
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She described her house as a large flat-share, with a huge living room and kitchen, four bedrooms, close to two popular clubs in Walthamstow, it was often used as a socialising space by party members.
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@tombfowler HN354 called the house “a drop in centre for SWP activity” in his statement - Madeleine says it was more a social space
They almost exclusively with other branch members, who she regarded as friends.
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They almost exclusively with other branch members, who she regarded as friends.
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@tombfowler ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCPI0000017456]
They used pubs like the Rose and Crown for meetings.
This meeting was about 'revolutionary feminism' and there was a guest speaker from the Newham Teachers branch of the party.
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[UCPI0000017456]
They used pubs like the Rose and Crown for meetings.
This meeting was about 'revolutionary feminism' and there was a guest speaker from the Newham Teachers branch of the party.
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@tombfowler Was this a subject her branch was interested in?
Yes
An anti-Jubilee picnic was being planned in Epping Forest in June 1977. Madeleine explained that the SWP were no fans of the monarchy/ British empire.
This was a picnic, “with children, I might add”.
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Yes
An anti-Jubilee picnic was being planned in Epping Forest in June 1977. Madeleine explained that the SWP were no fans of the monarchy/ British empire.
This was a picnic, “with children, I might add”.
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@tombfowler Rock against Racism had been set up by this time. Roger Huddle from their branch was “instrumental” in this, she recollected.
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@tombfowler There was a special Jubilee edition of the paper.
Madeleine repeated that they were very open about their political views, they weren't clandestine, and there is such a thing as free speech.
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Madeleine repeated that they were very open about their political views, they weren't clandestine, and there is such a thing as free speech.
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@tombfowler The group also took action at Sainsburys – they believed that food prices were kept artificially high.
There are 2 million people using food banks nowadays – Madeline said that was a “total indictment of the system”
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There are 2 million people using food banks nowadays – Madeline said that was a “total indictment of the system”
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@tombfowler She believes that access to food – like clean air, water and shelter – is a basic human right.
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@tombfowler Asked what the 'social committee' of the SWP may have done, she explained that this might have involved organising fundraising gigs and other events.
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@tombfowler ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCPI0000017571]
Madeleine was asked if this was an example of the 'consciousness raising' carried out by the SWP in work-places?
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[UCPI0000017571]
Madeleine was asked if this was an example of the 'consciousness raising' carried out by the SWP in work-places?
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@tombfowler She agreed that it was – they would talk to people about equal pay, safety issues etc – with the aim of “building a movement”
(she said this not just about recruiting new party members)
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(she said this not just about recruiting new party members)
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@tombfowler She added that youth unemployment was a big issue, and many young people felt they faced a future of insecure work.
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@tombfowler Women's Voice was a sub-group of the SWP, but there were some women involved who were not SWP members.
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@tombfowler She was very clear that the SWP did not support the IRA's bombing campaigns, even if they supported the right of the Irish people to self-determination.
As a bus conductor, she was very aware of bomb threats.
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As a bus conductor, she was very aware of bomb threats.
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@tombfowler She explained that they saw strike action – incl rent strikes – as a form of community self defence.
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@tombfowler They would sometimes have private business/ organisational meetings that weren't publicised.
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@tombfowler ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCP10000017571] is a branch report in which a Chilean refugee talked about the overthrow of the democratically elected Allende by the General Pinochet. The report deliberately misrepresents the discussion and takes comments out of context.
[UCP10000017571] is a branch report in which a Chilean refugee talked about the overthrow of the democratically elected Allende by the General Pinochet. The report deliberately misrepresents the discussion and takes comments out of context.
@tombfowler There had been splits between left-wing groups there and he blamed these for Pinochet's rise to power and Allende's fate.
Madeleine reminded us that the coup in Chile was about an attack on democracy.
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Madeleine reminded us that the coup in Chile was about an attack on democracy.
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@tombfowler Many thousands of people were brutally murdered, 'disappeared', and tortured
She reminded the Inquiry that at this time the SWP were not an armed revolutionary group, they were a serious group with a long term aim of transforming society, and this discussion was theoretical.
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She reminded the Inquiry that at this time the SWP were not an armed revolutionary group, they were a serious group with a long term aim of transforming society, and this discussion was theoretical.
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@tombfowler “It was decided that arming the workers would have to be the first step” says the #spycops report. Madeleine says this is “absolute nonsense”
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@tombfowler The final paragraph of the report sums up the attitude of the author and appears to be written for comic affect for his/her audience in Special Branch, rather than to accurately reflect the content of the meeting.'
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@tombfowler “It totally lacks nuance, doesn't it? she said of the report
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@tombfowler The report went on to talk about someone breaking down in tears at this meeting, when they heard about the kind of torture being inflicted on left-wing activists by the Chilean regime.
Madeleine sounds disguested that anyone could have written about this in this way.
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Madeleine sounds disguested that anyone could have written about this in this way.
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@tombfowler The far-right had secret cells and were building links with far-right groups across Europe. The SWP were selling newspapers.
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@tombfowler In August 1977 there was the demo which became known as the 'Battle of Lewisham'.
The @ucpinquiry raised this:
HN354 says he went to check out the route of the march the night before, and deposited piles of bricks that could be used the next day.
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The @ucpinquiry raised this:
HN354 says he went to check out the route of the march the night before, and deposited piles of bricks that could be used the next day.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/p…
UCPI0000034395] is a photograph produced by Madeleine.
It shows Colin Jordan, who founded the national socialist party in the UK – posing in front of a picture of Hitler in Nazi uniform.
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UCPI0000034395] is a photograph produced by Madeleine.
It shows Colin Jordan, who founded the national socialist party in the UK – posing in front of a picture of Hitler in Nazi uniform.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She is still amazed that these openly fascist groups were building, taking part in military training. But they weren't being monitored in the way that the SWP was.
“I find it absolutely extraordinary” she says
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“I find it absolutely extraordinary” she says
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Madeleine completely disagrees with various things in Vince's account. “There is no way that any of us would have taken weapons in bags” to the demo, and “this is the first I've heard” about any bricks.
Was HN354 acting as an agent provocateur?
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Was HN354 acting as an agent provocateur?
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She remembered that there were lots of building sites in the area, so there were bricks lying about anyway
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She attended the demo that day with comrades from her branch.
She was asked about ALCARAF, a broad-based alliance of anti-racist, anti-fascist groups, church groups, local community and trade union groups etc.
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She was asked about ALCARAF, a broad-based alliance of anti-racist, anti-fascist groups, church groups, local community and trade union groups etc.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She blames the police for the events of that day.
The Sikh Gurdwara had been attacked, as had shops and individuals in the area.
The local police's response was to start an 'anti-mugging campaign' & carry out 'Apartheid-like' dawn raids on the homes of young Black people.
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The Sikh Gurdwara had been attacked, as had shops and individuals in the area.
The local police's response was to start an 'anti-mugging campaign' & carry out 'Apartheid-like' dawn raids on the homes of young Black people.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Many young people were arrested. Madeleine recounted the story of a girl who was strip-searched.
The community set up a defence committee to support the 21 people who ended up facing charges as a result of the police's actions.
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The community set up a defence committee to support the 21 people who ended up facing charges as a result of the police's actions.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry This defence committee held a march which was viciously attacked by National Front (NF) thugs. The police called this 'Operation PNH' – the community believed that this stood for 'Police Nigger Hunt' and that the police were hugely racist themselves.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry It's important to put any discussion of the 'Battle of Lewisham' into this context, says Madeleine.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry If she was in charge of preventing public disorder, she would have stopped the march from going ahead.
Incredibly, activists even went to the High Court in an attempt tog et it stopped, but the police allowed it to go ahead...
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Incredibly, activists even went to the High Court in an attempt tog et it stopped, but the police allowed it to go ahead...
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry In the meantime, the anti-fascists were told that the route of their march had to be changed.
They ended up crushed in a 'kettle' by Clifton Rise in New Cross.
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They ended up crushed in a 'kettle' by Clifton Rise in New Cross.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry People climbed up the corrugated iron to get out. There was a line of police blocking one end of the street. She remembered loud music playing from nearby houses.
People from the houses told them that the fascists were frightened by the sheer size of the crowd.
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People from the houses told them that the fascists were frightened by the sheer size of the crowd.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry The next thing she recounted was police horses charging down the street, right through the crowd of demonstrators.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She says the NF were then “pushed out, into this crowd”, and although their “honour guard” was protected by police, the rest of the right-wingers were left unprotected by the police lines (even though they had the numbers to surround them if they chose to)
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry It is no surprise that “all hell broke loose” - she remembered missiles being thrown over her head by people who were somewhere behind her.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She and her comrades wanted to get out of the situation.
They were not involved in throwing things, and she says they “would never have thrown a missile” - in fact one of her friends even assisted a fascist who had fallen over.
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They were not involved in throwing things, and she says they “would never have thrown a missile” - in fact one of her friends even assisted a fascist who had fallen over.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry There was then “absolute chaos” - she recalled police vehicles driven into the crowd, indiscriminate arrests, police violence...
She felt that the police “just lost control and went wild” - they were “in a rage” and took this out on the local community.
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She felt that the police “just lost control and went wild” - they were “in a rage” and took this out on the local community.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She and her friends went to a station some distance away in an attempt to make it home safely.
She thinks it turned into a pitched battle between the police and local people, which included lots of Black people.
We then had a 15 minute break.
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She thinks it turned into a pitched battle between the police and local people, which included lots of Black people.
We then had a 15 minute break.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Rebekah Hummerstone (appearing for the @ucpinquiry ) wanted to correct something said earlier – there is no evidence that Vince deposited any bricks himself.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCPI0000011196]
26th August 1977
Madeleine was asked about this report which claims that around 30 people planned to arm themselves with catapults and ball bearings to use against the fascists.
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[UCPI0000011196]
26th August 1977
Madeleine was asked about this report which claims that around 30 people planned to arm themselves with catapults and ball bearings to use against the fascists.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She had supplied another photograph: [UCPI00000 34396 ]
ucpi.org.uk/publications/p…
In the photo we can see a guy holding lumps of wood, in the shape of a swastika, and we can see the police looking on. They're not bothered about this guy and his violence.
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ucpi.org.uk/publications/p…
In the photo we can see a guy holding lumps of wood, in the shape of a swastika, and we can see the police looking on. They're not bothered about this guy and his violence.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Just before this demo, Martin Webster had held a press conference and announced “We intend to destroy race relations in Lewisham” - the fascists' clear intentions were to stir up racial hatred.
Their main banner was about muggers (“80% of muggers are black”)
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Their main banner was about muggers (“80% of muggers are black”)
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Durham Police even invited Martin Webster from the NF to give them a talk in December 1977!
“There is clear subversion from the NF” Madeleine explains.
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“There is clear subversion from the NF” Madeleine explains.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry “...We could see where their philosophy ends”
She went on to talk about her Jewish husband, whose family tree ended in Auschwitz.
It “has to be understood that these are Nazis” she repeats.
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She went on to talk about her Jewish husband, whose family tree ended in Auschwitz.
It “has to be understood that these are Nazis” she repeats.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCPI0000011513]
Next up was a report from a SWP branch meeting, on the subject of William Morris (who was connected to Walthamstow). There was some chat about the arts and crafts movement, and Morris' designs being popular in those days.
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[UCPI0000011513]
Next up was a report from a SWP branch meeting, on the subject of William Morris (who was connected to Walthamstow). There was some chat about the arts and crafts movement, and Morris' designs being popular in those days.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Why on earth did the SDS think it necessary to report on a meeting like this? She asks
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCPI0000011787]
The next report was of a public meeting, co-organised with the Leyton Labour Women, featuring a theatre group called North West Spanner.
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[UCPI0000011787]
The next report was of a public meeting, co-organised with the Leyton Labour Women, featuring a theatre group called North West Spanner.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
The next document was [UCPI0000011337]
Report of a meeting in July '78. The branch decided to meet fortnightly, with smaller, more specific groups meeting in between. These included Women's Voice, the industrial group, Anti Nazi League (ANL) etc.
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The next document was [UCPI0000011337]
Report of a meeting in July '78. The branch decided to meet fortnightly, with smaller, more specific groups meeting in between. These included Women's Voice, the industrial group, Anti Nazi League (ANL) etc.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Vince Miller is listed as involved in this industrial group – what would they have done?
Sold papers at factories.
She recollected the fire-fighters's strike of that time.
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Sold papers at factories.
She recollected the fire-fighters's strike of that time.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry It's interesting that he says the workforce was predominantly Asian, he possibly had their contact details – she now wonders if these details were passed to the factory bosses or used for #blacklisting - “I find that subversive”.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry The report went on to mention meetings being held about the Ford dispute and a campaign in support of the local hospital.
The SWP are said to be happy about their visible presence at various strikes and workers' struggles.
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The SWP are said to be happy about their visible presence at various strikes and workers' struggles.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Was this industrial group the most effective at recruiting new members?
“Possibly he was doing a good job” Madeleine says. She thinks he probably positioned himself on purpose so that he could gather information.
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“Possibly he was doing a good job” Madeleine says. She thinks he probably positioned himself on purpose so that he could gather information.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry The report also mentioned School Kids Against the Nazis (SKAN) – who were known for getting school students out in the streets – this group began as a direct response to fascist activity at their school in East London.
15 members of SKAN (almost all Black) were arrested.
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15 members of SKAN (almost all Black) were arrested.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Madeleine says they were “a self-organising group” of young people who wanted to be active in their oppostion to the NF”.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
We saw another report from a meeting [UCPI0000012924]
Members of the SWP set up a rota to protect a couple who had been threatened by racists.
She reminded us that “self defence is no offence” when you're under attack from the NF, or any fascists.
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We saw another report from a meeting [UCPI0000012924]
Members of the SWP set up a rota to protect a couple who had been threatened by racists.
She reminded us that “self defence is no offence” when you're under attack from the NF, or any fascists.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry “They were hardened street fighters” so the SWP tried to avoid confrontation - “we were pretty soft”.
But Madeleine felt it was important to take a stand against these racist bullies.
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But Madeleine felt it was important to take a stand against these racist bullies.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
July 1979 report [UCPI0000021044] from a meeting entitled“Disband the Special Patrol Group” (SPG)
Madeleine reminded us of the unauthorised weapons and Nazi regalia found in the lockers of SPG officers after they had killed Blair Peach in Southall.
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July 1979 report [UCPI0000021044] from a meeting entitled“Disband the Special Patrol Group” (SPG)
Madeleine reminded us of the unauthorised weapons and Nazi regalia found in the lockers of SPG officers after they had killed Blair Peach in Southall.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry It was widely believed that the police had killed Blair Peach, and were trying to cover this up.
There had been an increase in fascist attacks, prompting the party to be more security-conscious at their meetings.
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There had been an increase in fascist attacks, prompting the party to be more security-conscious at their meetings.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
Next was [UCPI0000011550] a report detailing Madeleine's employment at a school. Why did the #spycops record this kind of personal info about her (and others)?
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Next was [UCPI0000011550] a report detailing Madeleine's employment at a school. Why did the #spycops record this kind of personal info about her (and others)?
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCPI000011289] Report about Madeleine getting married in 1976.
Again, she is “absolutely outraged”.
She notes that we can see (from her RF) number that she was being spied on by Special Branch back in 1970, when she was only 16.
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[UCPI000011289] Report about Madeleine getting married in 1976.
Again, she is “absolutely outraged”.
She notes that we can see (from her RF) number that she was being spied on by Special Branch back in 1970, when she was only 16.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She addresses her next point to the Chair of the #spycopsinquiry Mitting:
“Why can't I see what I was subject to, that's been redacted?”
(fifty years after it was recorded by the State)
“I find that really, really sinister.”
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“Why can't I see what I was subject to, that's been redacted?”
(fifty years after it was recorded by the State)
“I find that really, really sinister.”
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/s…
[UCPI 0000021299]
The next report in this series is also about Madeleine, who's now employed as a bus conductor.
Her reaction: “I would like to ask Vince Miller why he recorded it”
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[UCPI 0000021299]
The next report in this series is also about Madeleine, who's now employed as a bus conductor.
Her reaction: “I would like to ask Vince Miller why he recorded it”
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry The Walthamstow branch usually met at the Rose and Crown were open, and new people (like Vince) would be invited to come along.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry How did the branch react to new people?
“Generally really excited” - the SWP were happy to make new recruits, esp guys like
Vince' who seemed to have a working class background.
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“Generally really excited” - the SWP were happy to make new recruits, esp guys like
Vince' who seemed to have a working class background.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry He became very active in their group, he sold papers and attended pickets (incl at Grunwick), demos and gigs. “He would have joined in with every activity, she says.
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@tombfowler @ucpinquiry He was unusual in that he had a van, so used to help with fly-posting, collecting papers from the printers etc.
Madeleine says “he would have been useful without the van” but it was a “big plus”
(98)
Madeleine says “he would have been useful without the van” but it was a “big plus”
(98)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry “He had his feet under the table, let's put it that way. He was very enmeshed in the group, socially and politically” - he was well-integrated in this very sociable group for the 3 years of his deployment.
(99)
(99)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry He liked to drink (”always first to the bar”) and came across as a nice guy – everyone liked him.
An old flatmate has managed to dig out diaries from that time. They show that Vince visited their home as early as May or June 1977.
(100)
An old flatmate has managed to dig out diaries from that time. They show that Vince visited their home as early as May or June 1977.
(100)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry When she first knew him, she was married, and thinks she was probably less socially active and less friendly with him then, but increasingly regarded him as a friend after her marriage broke up (in the autumn of 1978)
(101)
(101)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry [UCPI0000034331]
There are photos of Vince with Madeleine and her husband,and her family.
These will be published at the same time as HN354's real name.
(102)
There are photos of Vince with Madeleine and her husband,and her family.
These will be published at the same time as HN354's real name.
(102)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry At that time, she didn't open up about the problems in her marriage (an abusive relationship)
She described how shy/ quiet she used to be; her husband was extremely possessive so it was only after she left him that she felt more confident socialising & talking to other men.
(103)
She described how shy/ quiet she used to be; her husband was extremely possessive so it was only after she left him that she felt more confident socialising & talking to other men.
(103)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She thought Vince was a nice, sensitive , genuine, guy, who had been through heartbreak himself.
(104)
(104)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She was asked for her account of a house party in Ilford.
She doesn't know if Vince was invited there, or who by. He arrived a little late.
(105)
She doesn't know if Vince was invited there, or who by. He arrived a little late.
(105)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry “He pulled me onto his lap and that's where I stayed for the rest of the night”.
She liked and trusted him, and enjoyed sitting on his lap. They chatted, flirted – he told her that he'd found her hard to get to know in the past.
(106)
She liked and trusted him, and enjoyed sitting on his lap. They chatted, flirted – he told her that he'd found her hard to get to know in the past.
(106)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Madeleine recounted how another friend came over and invited her to join the dancing, and Vince “kind of put his arms around me and sort of said 'No she's quite happy here' .”
(107)
(107)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Her friends asked her if she wanted a lift home with them. She chose to stay longer at the party and Vince reassured them “it's ok, I'll make sure she gets home”
(108)
(108)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She is not sure how they got back to her place, and thinks maybe they drove in Vince's van. It was clear that he was coming in with her.
(109)
(109)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry They may have had a drink or two with her flatmates, but there was definitely no party in progress in her flat (contrary to what HN354 now claims)
(110)
(110)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry He accompanied her to her room. And stayed over that night.
She says that was the start of an ongoing sexual relationship. She was never looking for a one-night stand or casual sex with anyone.
(111)
She says that was the start of an ongoing sexual relationship. She was never looking for a one-night stand or casual sex with anyone.
(111)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Social contact between them increased, they spent lots of time talking, in and out of bed.
She recounted the kind of conversations the couple had. These included them talking about their past relationships: she got the idea that he had been through something a bit like her
(112)
She recounted the kind of conversations the couple had. These included them talking about their past relationships: she got the idea that he had been through something a bit like her
(112)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She did not visit the flat where Vince said he lived. She knocked on the door a few times (to surprise him) but he didn't answer the door.
He didn't invite her to visit him there.
(113)
He didn't invite her to visit him there.
(113)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry How often did he visit her house?
Maybe once a week, on average, over a few months.
On those other occasions he would come over and have sex, but then make his excuses and leave before morning...
(114)
Maybe once a week, on average, over a few months.
On those other occasions he would come over and have sex, but then make his excuses and leave before morning...
(114)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry His excuse was that he needed to wake up alone, in his own bed, telling her “I can't handle getting too close”.
(115)
(115)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Her flat-mates knew about her relationship with Vince. Her best friend, and her brother, also knew.
She has a very strong recollection of a flat-mate asking “is Vince still in bed?” very early one morning, and commenting on Vince's 'bad manners' in not staying all night.
(116)
She has a very strong recollection of a flat-mate asking “is Vince still in bed?” very early one morning, and commenting on Vince's 'bad manners' in not staying all night.
(116)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry The last time she saw 'Vince Miller' was at her friend 'J's house.
She saw him sitting on the other side of the room with another woman, called 'C' – Madeleine suspects that this may be the other SWP woman that he has admitted to sexual contact with.
(117)
She saw him sitting on the other side of the room with another woman, called 'C' – Madeleine suspects that this may be the other SWP woman that he has admitted to sexual contact with.
(117)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She'd last seen him a week earlier but on this evening, he didn't really acknowledge her.
(118)
(118)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She tried to speak to him about this in the street later on – he said he didn't know what she wanted from him, but didn't want to get hurt again. And was thinking of going to America to 'find himself' on the West coast.
(119)
(119)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry They hugged and parted.
She doesn't remember seeing him again after his, although other SWP members may have done
(120)
She doesn't remember seeing him again after his, although other SWP members may have done
(120)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry In his statement, HN354 describes their relationship as a 'one night stand' – something very different to what Madeleine has told us about.
(121)
(121)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She believes that in his version, he uses 'being drunk' as an excuse for entering this relationship with her, and for his other 'one night stands'
“He didn't seem drunk to me” says Madeleine.
(122)
“He didn't seem drunk to me” says Madeleine.
(122)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry ucpi.org.uk/publications/e…
Madeleine then brought up [UCPI00000034310] – this is a photo of a close bus-driving friend's diary entry, dated 9th January 1980.
Madeleine then brought up [UCPI00000034310] – this is a photo of a close bus-driving friend's diary entry, dated 9th January 1980.
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry The friend describes Vince as Madeleine's 'ex-lover' and suggests that Vince may be some kind of vampire, due to his habit of disappearing before daylight.
(124)
(124)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry There was a rumour that Vince had gone – when his Forest Road flat was visited by 'J', the door was answered by two strangers, who “acted shifty and a bit wierd” and said he'd gone off to America.
(125)
(125)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Madeleine spoke about her bus-driver friend/ confidante some more:“
He took an interest in my love life; he was always hoping that I'd find a nice guy”
He was very protective, a “lovely guy” and close friend.
(126)
He took an interest in my love life; he was always hoping that I'd find a nice guy”
He was very protective, a “lovely guy” and close friend.
(126)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She recalled how she felt when Vince vanished: upset and disappointed - “I think it impacted my self esteem”
She went on to say “I felt a sense of rejection” - she was left feeling that she'd (again) made a mistake and would have to try better next time.
(127)
She went on to say “I felt a sense of rejection” - she was left feeling that she'd (again) made a mistake and would have to try better next time.
(127)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She was asked how she would have felt to discover Vince's true identity at the time?
“I think it would have been devastating”
(128)
“I think it would have been devastating”
(128)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Madeleine says she was young and naïve, and her self-esteem was already damaged by the abusive marriage - she thinks she would have been shocked and distraught to find out then about this “absolute betrayal”
(129)
(129)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry “I would have regarded it, as I do regard it now, as rape”.
She is explicit about this
(130)
She is explicit about this
(130)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She had some fond memories of him, and used to sometimes think about him.
To learn that 'Vince Miller' was a fiction, a fabrication, someone who didn't really exist, is “really chilling and sinister”
(131)
To learn that 'Vince Miller' was a fiction, a fabrication, someone who didn't really exist, is “really chilling and sinister”
(131)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She cannot understand these undercovers, the depth of their deception and manipulation and deceit – she finds it disgusting.
(132)
(132)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Madeline thanked Mitting for extending the restriction order - after hearing her opening statement less than 2 weeks ago – so that she could legally talk about all of this evidence with her husband.
(133)
(133)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry She repeatedly stated that it would have helped if this had happened earlier: she was scared & isolated
She asked Mitting to give the other women the same kind of consideration
(not just those who are now married: “everyone needs support” she reminded him)
(134)
She asked Mitting to give the other women the same kind of consideration
(not just those who are now married: “everyone needs support” she reminded him)
(134)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry Does her son have a file? What about her husband?
How has this impacted on other people's lives?
(135)
How has this impacted on other people's lives?
(135)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry We've now seen evidence from a number of #spycops and seen their reports – she is left wondering about the psychology of these officers....
(136)
(136)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry We have seen examples of miscarriages of justice, evidence of police racism, misogyny, sexism, jokes and banter about women....
(137)
(137)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry We've heard about the violence meted out by police officers (punching members of the public in the face for example) and even about two deaths caused by the police....
Madeleine said she was finding it all “pretty appalling”
(138)
Madeleine said she was finding it all “pretty appalling”
(138)
@tombfowler @ucpinquiry There were no further questions.
Mitting popped up on screen to say that he was“very very grateful” to Madeleine for all her evidence, and tell her that she could take more time tomorrow (if she needed it) in order to formulate any questions she has for HN354.
(140)
Mitting popped up on screen to say that he was“very very grateful” to Madeleine for all her evidence, and tell her that she could take more time tomorrow (if she needed it) in order to formulate any questions she has for HN354.
(140)
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