Thread by @barandbench

[#PegasusSnoopgate #SupremeCourt]

CJI NV Ramana led bench to hear a batch of petitions seeking various prayers including a court monitored probe, a judicial inquiry & directions to the government to reveal details about whether it had used the Pegasus software to spy on citizens

Appearing for the Central government, Solicitor General Tushar Mehta had sought for more time to reply. Hence the matter is listed today. No official notice has been issued to the Centre yet
#supremecourt #pegasus

Former RSS ideologue KN Govindacharya has filed an application to revive his 2019 petition seeking a probe into the #Pegasus scandal which he had withdrawn to explore alternative remedies
#supremecourt @KGovindacharya

#SupremeCourt had earlier remarked that while the allegations in news reports regarding the Pegasus controversy are serious in nature if true, no efforts seem to have been made by the affected persons to file criminal complaints with the police before approaching the top court

Hearing to commence shortly
#SupremeCourt #pegasussnoopingscandal

CJI: These matters we can have end of the board.

SG: It was stated that the matter will be taken with Item 21.

Matter to be taken up end of the board. (after all matters on the list is over)

#SupremeCourt #pegasussnoopingscandal

SG Tushar Mehta informs that a short reply has been filed

#SupremeCourt #pegasussnoopingscandal

BREAKING: Ministry of IT files affidavit in #SupremeCourt in #PegasuSnoopingScandal case

Affidavit annexes the statement of the IT minister in the floor of the house. Denies all allegations by the petitioners @GoI_MeitY

IT Ministry in #SupremeCourt :
Centre "unequivocally deny any
and all of the allegations made against the Respondents...petition and other connected petitions makes it clear that the same are
based on conjectures and surmises or on other unsubstantiated media
reports.."

BREAKING: Centre tells #SupremeCourt it will form a Committee of Experts in the field which will go into all aspects of the Pegasus snooping scandal

#PegasusProject #SupremeCourt

Centre to constitute Committee of Experts to look into Pegasus scandal, denies all allegations before Supreme Court

#Pegasus #SupremeCourt #PegasusProject

Read story: bityl.co/8FEt

Matter resumes
#Pegasus #SupremeCourt #PegasusProject

SG: in this matter earlier ..

(interrupted by a counsel of another hearing)

Justice Surya Kant: Mr Lawyer (to an intervening applicant) you have joined profession in 2017 and joined Supreme Court in 2019. Please learn principles of legal profession and then file PILs. Please take your time. #Pegasus #SupremeCourt #PegasusProject

Sr Adv Shyam Divan: i have filed three additional affidavits.

Sr Adv Kapil Sibal: i was not being allowed in so..

SG: at the outsel I have filed an affidavit saying three things

CJI (to all senior counsels): Please listen to us. Affidavit was filed by Centre. We have just got it. Have you all read it?

Sr Av Meenakshi Arora: I have not read it. Yet

SG: I will serve it to you

Sr Adv Mukul Rohatgi: I appear for Whatsapp

Rohatgi: I have nothing to do with Pegasus

CJI: Centre denies all allegations and says a committee of experts have been formed.

SG reads: The question stands already clarified on the floor of the Parliament by the Hon’ble Minister

SG: In that view of the matter, in the respectful
submission of the deponent, nothing further needs to be done at the behest of the Petitioner, more particularly when they have not made out any case.

SG: We have denied all allegations ..Minsiter has clarified that a web portal has published a sensational story before the parliament session begins. There is nothing to hide or that needs examination

SG: Its a scientific thing and we will appoint a neutral body of persons and experts to dispel any wrong
narrative spread by certain vested interests and with an object of examining the issues raised. What more can centre do? This is transparency

Justice Aniruddha Bose: I had once interacted with two of the petitioners, Paranjoy Guha Thakurta and one other. Do you all have issues If I hear this matter?

Counsels: no we don't have any objection.

SG: Only i can have objection and we don't have any objection

SG: I have full faith.

Rohatgi: Please proceed with the matter

Adv ML Sharma: Do i have a right to submit?

CJI: you don't want the matter to go ahead?

Sharma: SG Mehta has not replied to my petition

CJI: Unless SG Mehta serves you a counter we cannot hear the matter?

CJI: I don't know what you want to say. He has filed a counter, we cannot ask him to file something else.

Sharma: Please allow me the amendment to the petition

Sharma: I have removed the first respondent, please allow the amended plea

CJI: we allow, now please keep quiet. Yes Mr Mehta please say

CJI: On first day of the hearing, statements made in parliament wad read before us. Let us hear Mr Sibal

Sr Adv Kapil Sibal: Please see paragraph 2 of the affidavit. its said due to limited time its not possible to deal with all contentions raised in batch of pleas.

Sibal: they have to state on oath that they have never used pegasus spyware. if they have not our submissions will be different and if they have then our submissions will be different. this affidavit does not answer issues raised by us.

Sibal: then come to para 3 of the affidavit which says petitions are based on surmises and conjectures. now if they have not answered in fact then how can they say this. let them say Centre has nothing to do with pegasus, @KapilSibal

Sibal: We don't want the government which might have used pegasus to set up a committee. where is the question of committee coming. they should be given enough time to submit an affidavit on facts

Sibal: Please look at the Editors Guild petition. The question by @asadowaisi was whether pegasus was used, number of citizens affected, details of deal with NSO group, and explanation of whatsapp being infected..now look at the answer

Sibal: Centre says some spyware had infected some whatsapp ..this means they had acknowledged it. It was also acknowledged that 119 users from India was infected with the spyware. have they got in touch with Israeli govt? that's why they don't respond on facts. No FIR filed

Sibal: i am not concerned about indiviudals. I am worried about the institutions which is the journalists and courts and both are pillars of democracy,

Sibal: a lady staff of this work has been infected with pegasus and the family members, this is the only institution which protect rights of the people and it cannot be allowed to be infiltrated. Registrars of this court were snooped

Sibal: Please read 70 (b) of the IT Act. this is an amendment. there is an agency called the CERTIN. It deals with such infiltrations. It is to appoint an agency of the govt called the Indian emergency response computer team dealing with these issues.

Sibal: Their duties are in the domain of cyber security.
@KapilSibal

Sibal: CERTIN performs functions like emergency measures like handling cybersecurity incidents and coordination of cyber activities. The field of cyber security is dealt with CERTIN an agency of the government.

Sibal: please see the Rule 4 of the IT (Procedure and Safeguards for Interception, Monitoring and Decryption of Information) Rules 2009. Home Secretary has to file a reply in this case. @KapilSibal

Sibal: First see the rule 3 Direction for interception or monitoring or decryption of any information.— No person shall carry out the interception or monitoring or decryption of any information generated, transmitted, received or stored in any computer resource ...

Sibal: ......under sub-section (2) of section 69 of the Act, except by an order issued by the competent authority..

#supremecourt

Sibal: definition is : (d) “competent authority” means--

(i) the Secretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs, in case of the Central Government; or

(ii) the Secretary in charge of the Home Department, in case of a State Government or Union territory, as the case may be;

Sibal: This affidavit is by the additional secretary and not even the home secretary. If interception is allowed..
@KapilSibal

Sibal: if interception is allowed legally then home secretary will know. If he says he doesn't know then it has been done without his knowledge. France has started a national level probe through court procedures, Israel is also conducting enquiry, Indian govt says all is fine

Sibal: This is wholly unacceptable. Give them time but let them state on oath did they use pegasus, how it was used, what deal contracts were entered into. Cabinet secretary should reply

Sr Adv Vikas Singh appears for KN Govindacharya

CJI: Your plea was withdrawn and you had to go before a parliamentary committee. Now the question is to revive it..

Hearing disrupted due to technical glitches

CJI: assuming we restore your application..we grant liberty to file a fresh writ petition to join as a petitioner.
@KGovindacharya

Sr Adv Vikas Singh argues

CJI: I dont know what is wrong with your internet. we cannot hear you

Sr Adv Rohatgi for Whatsapp: He has already withdrawn the plea. this application by Govidacharya is misconceived as he will use this court for his purpose

CJI: He can file a fresh plea

Rohatgi: let him file, there is no need for liberty

Rohatgi: please reject the application, if he had to file he will file. these are only instruments of harassment

@WhatsApp #supremecourt

Sr Adv Rakesh Dwivedi: I endorse what Mr Sibal has said. There is nothing in Minster’s statement that Government is NOT using #Pegasus. There’s nothing that says they haven’t used the facility & agencies are not using it. important is whether its used against me or not

Dwivedi: Use of pegasus has to be authorised by a law of the parliament. When scheme of Aadhaar was being concerned the entire scheme of the act was discussed, this court had concluded that software being used was protected and there was no chance of surveillance

Dwivedi: here in this affidavit nothing of that is stated. privacy is a fundamental right and if it is being breached or not has to be seen if it is through a law of parliament there is no statement that its not used or its not used against me let them get time and reply

Dwivedi: Please give them more time. The question of formation of committee, there is no formation of committee. They have not even stated who will be the members of this committee. It has to be a neutral independent committee. it should be monitored by this court

Sr Adv Divan: This is a article 32 petition and this is a matter of tremendous importance in which this skimpy two page affidavit can be filed

SG Mehta: Mr Divan is for whom?

Divan: I appear for @JagdeepChhokar

Divan: the structure of my petition is that I was surveilled..

CJI: we can ask Mr Mehta to file another counter with time.. if they don't file.. then you can advance these arguments.

Divan: we have filed an additional affidavit. This is by Sandeep K Shukla , Professor, paramount authority on cyber security.

J. Surya Kant: You have suggested two names. we have read everything in your affidavit.

Divan: so you realise the importance of what has been set out

Sr Adv Divan: i have made a specific request that the cabinet secretary should respond.. i have also given 3 judgments of this court, having regard to magnity of the issue cabinet secy was requested to reply

Sr Adv Meenakshi Arora: I went through the affidavit, and it is Delightfully Non-Committal. Neither ministry commits to anything whether pegasus was used and the affidavit also does not say, if the govt does not take onus, France USA all have taken note...

Sr Adv Dinesh Dwivedi: Please look at the affidavit. my client's phone was forensically examined and it was found to be infected.

CJI: We have heard. Let us ask something to SG Mehta. Sum is it is an limited affidavit and it has not satisfied the allegations whether pegaus was used or not unless and until you furnish the information we cannot go on with the hearing,

CJI: we can give time for a detailed affidavit and decide scope of committee

SG: We are dealing with a sensitive matter but an attempt is being made to make this sensational !

SG Mehta reads the statement of IT Minister: "lawful interception of electronic communication is carried out for the purpose of national security, particularly on the occurrence of any public emergency"

SG Mehta reads the statement: "There is an established oversight mechanism in the form of a review committee headed by the Union Cabinet Secretary. In case of state governments, such cases are reviewed by a committee headed by the Chief Secretary concerned"

SG Mehta reads the statement: "The procedure therefore ensures that any interception or monitoring of any information is done as per due process of law. The framework and institutions have withstood the test of time"

SG: This matter if gone into will have national security implications. This matter cannot be handled like furnish an affidavit etc. This is an issue in which facts placed etc will have national security concerns. There is a system in place. #supremecourt

SG: Minister concerned with this department has given details, as how this pegasus issue has been raging fire over the past few years. The placing of facts will involve national security issues.

CJI: Whatever you want to say why don't you file an affidavit? We will also get a clear picture

SG: allow me 10 more minutes. I ask myself a one page affidavit saying pegasus was not used then will they withdraw the pleas, the answer is no.

CJI: We see you dont want to take a stand

SG: If its fact finding then i am for it,, but if its for sensationalising which is alien to Article 32 then I cannot help it. It looks like petitioners want to go somewhere else other than what courts wants to see

SG reads the minister' s statement: " the company which owns the technology has said. It said:
NSO Group believes that claims that you have been provided with, are based on misleading interpretation of leaked data from basic information, such as HLR Lookup services"

SG reads minister's statement: "which have no bearing on the list of the customers’ targets of Pegasus or any other NSO products. Such services are openly available to anyone, anywhere, and anytime, and are commonly used by governmental agencies as well as by private companies."

SG: anyone can say that even my phone is intercepted. This is based on media reports releasing a list of 50,000 numbers. whatever interception is done for national security is done, that's all. whether NSO has done etc and if it has to be examined then an expert committee can see

SG: A false narrative has been set up. We are showing good faith decision by the government.

SG: if there is any other purpose behind the petition of which i am not aware i cannot help it

Justice Surya Kant: What you are reading is what NSO said but here petitioners want to know your stand. you want an expert committee to look into it.

Justice Kant: whether official protocol was followed or not you have to answer on affidavit. suppose you don't want to file then question of committee will come up

SG: All these question can only be decided by technical experts. Whether my no is right and wrong let expert committee check

CJI: How will the technical committee check what authorizations have been given? what contracts etc. there are two issues, experts can check what particular software was used. The issue of permission, sanction, procurement , non procurement etc who will examine that?

SG: There is nothing to hide, you can confer the jurisdiction upon the committee.

CJI: We are not doubting the government. But there are two areas one area how can the expert committee look into it

SG: Your lordships can invoke the power under 32 and confer the committee with the terms of reference

CJI: we can understand this is the affidavit you have filed

SG: Committee can go into the issue of whether such a software was used.

SG: your lordships may law down the terms of reference. I differ with Mr Dwivedi, and i say that govt appointed committee can be trusted.

SG: On the sideline IT Act is a beautiful piece of legislation made during the tenure of Mr Kapil Sibal. There was a section 66A which was struck down. The act has taken care of everything.

Sibal: all that we want from govt is an answer that has pegasus being used. There is no national security there...

SG: will you withdraw if we deny

Sibal: Mr Mehta let us not talk about beauty, it has lost beauty by the way the act was used. ;lets not talk about it

Sibal: pegasus being used was in knowledge of govt since 2019. no revelation of national security in a reply that whether pegasus was used or not. Minister of IT statement reveals nothing

CJI: how can we compel the government to file if they are reluctant to file

SG Mehta: We are not reluctant but will they withdraw..

Sibal: Once they say that on oath that an affidavit will not be filed, the matter is more serious and we will argue further

Justice Kant: please come to a line from affidavit...you have reserved right to file a detailed affidavit later

SG: These are formats ...

CJI Ramana: we have to hear Mr Divan etc. we will continue the hearing tomorrow

#supremecourt

CJI: Reason we said that Mr Mehta may decide to file an affidavit then we have nothing to say else we will hear all of you

SG: There is no reluctance.. truth must come out.

CJI: Tomorrow we will continue, it is already 1.30, we have to rise. this is a simple issue of affidavit

CJI: Mr Sharma, if you start threatening the court officer. Be careful. I am showing a lot of patience. We have allowed the amendment. what else do you want? don't be in a hurry

Bench rises. Matter to continue tomorrow. Matter over for today

#supremecourt #pegasus

CJI tells an intervention counsel: Please dont hijack the proceeding. We are hearing other counsels. Do not interrupt. nothing can be done by filing these PILs

Sr Adv Sibal requests for an end of the board hearing tomorrow

Bench allows

#supremecourt