Thread by @DaleJohnsonESPN

Strap yourselves in. It's time. The Monday VAR thread, this week featuring:

- Overturned penalties!
- Penalties! Penalties! Penalties!
- Ivan Toney disallowed goal / handball
- Offside decisions

It's just like old times.....

Let's preface this by saying that VAR had actually been pretty decent this season.

But this weekend saw the good, bad, ugly, contentious and ridiculous.

Remember, I try to explain VAR process, how/why a decision might/might not be made and discuss its merits.

Let's start with the simple one, Burnley's cancelled penalty vs. Arsenal.

UEFA referees' chief Roberto Rosetti said before Euro 2020 that a key trigger for a penalty review is if a player gets a touch on the ball.

That doesn't rule out a penalty, but is a key consideration.

Aaron Ramdsale clearly gets a touch on the ball first.

Although there is then contact between Ramsdale and Matej Vydra, the guidelines are that, in a specific kind of situation like this, the penalty should be cancelled.

Unfortunately, the VAR missed the overturn on a West Ham penalty at Newcastle in GW1 with Jacob Murphy.

That was the same situation, a clear touch by the defensive player before contact with the attacker.

However, worth giving an example of where the line is crossed.

Coincidentally, the example comes from a Burnley penalty conceded at Leeds last season.

Nick Pope got a touch on the ball ahead of Patrick Bamford, but completed the challenge in a careless manner and wrapped his arms around the striker's waist.

This remains a penalty.

We move on... Yep, let's cover the cancelled Southampton penalty at Manchester City.

There are many moving parts to this so I'll try and explain the process, and why the original decision by Jon Moss played a major role in the whole spot kick being completely overturned.

The key factor was Jon Moss showing Kyle Walker the red card. That was 100% the wrong decision and had to go to review.

If a player makes an attempt for the ball, which is in playing distance, a red card shouldn't be shown on triple jeopardy. No matter if it's a poor tackle.

Moss sent Walker off for a different offence. He judged Walker had pushed Adam Armstrong, hence the red, meaning he has not seen the incident correctly.

At that point the review of the whole penalty situation comes into play. Moss has given it for something that doesn't exist.

When Moss goes to the monitor all options are open to him:

- Penalty and red card
- Penalty and yellow card
- Penalty and no card
- No penalty and no card

As the incident is completely different to his original decision, option 4 is very much in play.

If Moss gives the penalty for the tackle, and doesn't send off Walker, there's every chance the VAR doesn't intervene on a clear and obvious error for the penalty.

But Moss DID give the penalty for the incorrect offence, so there is a clear and obvious error situation to fix.

I still can't decide if it actually is a penalty or not having watched it many times.

Armstrong is slides in for for the ball as Walker starts his challenge, meaning Walker doesn't even really make a tackle.

But once given (for whatever reason) it's a hard sell to cancel it.

What next? Ah yes, West Ham vs. Man United. This is should be fun......

Let's say it wasn't the finest of days for referee Martin Atkinson and VAR Darren England.

Four possible penalties, one given. But how many others should there have been? And why weren't they given?

First, Aaron Wan-Bissaka and Tomas Soucek. This was terrible from all involved.

The referee gives a foul AGAINST the West Ham player, who didn't even make a challenge.

For the VAR not to raise a clear and obvious error for a penalty was bizarre.

It's clear that Wan-Bissaka slides in and takes out Soucek. It's a missed penalty. There's not much more clear and obvious than giving the offence against the wrong team.

NB: the possible offside offence is irrelevant as that player doesn't become active simply from the pass.

Of all the decisions, this is one that was probably caused by the desire to speed up the VAR process with quicker judgements.

The fear was that VARs convinced themselves of offences by looking for too long at too many replays.

But this was near instant and completely wrong.

Second, Vladimir Coufal on Cristiano Ronaldo. I can see why the ref might feel that the contact was initiated by Ronaldo.

He plays the ball, and then steps from the line of the ball into Coufal by bringing his left foot over.

BUT Coufal had clearly placed the barrier.

Coufal has created a clear barrier to the run of the Manchester United player.

While it's the case that Ronaldo used that barrier, it's a different situation to a player initiating contact off a defender who hasn't made a real challenge.

The VAR should have advised a penalty.

Third, Kurt Zouma on Cristiano Ronaldo. This is tougher for VAR to get involved; if the ref gives the penalty it's not over-ruled.

I've talked on several occasions about how attacking players drag their back foot, to give the illusion of a trip without a trip having happened.

You see Ronaldo drag his back foot on the turf and begin to fall before Zouma's challenge.

If Atkinson rejected the penalty because Ronaldo was already going down, it's hard for VAR to get involved.

Zouma was very lucky as it was rash and on another day the ref gives it.

And finally, the penalty to West Ham in the 93rd minute. It's an absolute stonewall, nailed on penalty kick.

That neither Martin Atkinson nor the assistant on that side gave the penalty is simply amazing. The arm is completely away from the body creating a barrier.

Stay with me... On we go to Brighton vs Leicester!

Did Jannik Vestergaard handle the ball? No doubt whatsoever. The arm's up and away from the body.

However, it only happened because Neal Maupay held him down as he tried to jump for the ball from the corner.

It's a foul. Maupay prevented Vestergaard from jumping let alone being the cause of the arm in the air.

The VAR, Peter Bankes, was too concerned with checking the handball (given by the assistant). The foul wasn't looked at.

The penalty should have been cancelled by the VAR.

Onto Leeds' penalty claim at Newcastle, for Joe Willock catching Daniel James.

Another penalty. Mike Dean thought James ran into Willock and it was a coming together. So I'm very surprised VAR Jarred Gillett didn't advise the review.

Another case of trying to be too quick?

Now Wolves vs. Brentford, and Ivan Toney's busy day.

Starting with their second goal.

Toney had an accidental handball in the build-up, before assisting Bryan Mbeumo.

But the law was changed in the summer and accidental attacking handball now ONLY applies to the goal scorer.

Which leads us neatly to this! A first of its kind in the Premier League.

- Toney's goal was ruled out for offside on the field
- It was then ruled onside by the VAR
- But ruled out again by the VAR for handball by the goal scorer

Oh wow! Good VAR!

Don't worry, nearly there now.

So offside, and back to Brighton vs. Leicester.

I've explained how field decision with the subjective element carries a lot of weight, certainly when offside HAS been given.

I can't recall one subjective offside given overturned by the VAR.

On Leicester's first disallowed goal, I don't think there's any grounds for the VAR to get involved.

Harvey Barnes is offside and in the line of vision of goalkeeper Robert Sanchez when Ademola Lookman plays the ball towards goal.

This is never likely to be overturned.

The second is far more contentious, but remember it was disallowed on the field.

Barnes is offside, not in the keeper's line of vision, but judged to be impacting upon Sanchez by moving as the ball goes past.

I think that's a stretch, and the VAR may not have ruled this out.

The reactions of Sanchez tell us quite a bit. Angry at Barnes on the first, angry at his defence on the second.

If I were a Leicester fan I'd be very annoyed at this goal being disallowed.

It's incredibly subjective, right at the very boundaries of its interpretation.

The decision to award Watford's third goal at Norwich was a clear example of keeping the flag down when a linesman isn't certain until the attack is over or a goal is scored.

It was a very close call, but the linesman disallowed this goal and the VAR was able to award it.

Obviously we do still get annoying situations when a player is well off and the flag stays down.

But to underline, the new directive to raise the flag on obvious offsides doesn't apply to clear goal-scoring situations, only when the play is wide or non-threatening.

We've made it to the end!

Manchester City thought they had a late winner against Southampton, but Raheem Sterling was in front of the ball when it was headed forward by Phil Foden. Correct decision.

If Foden puts in the rebound, it's a goal.

In summary from the thread:

BAD
3 missed penalties
1 missed pen cancellation

?
1 dubious offside
1 contentious penalty claim
1 pen cancelled under protocol

GOOD
1 pen cancelled
1 pen awarded
1 red rescinded
1 ruled out for handball
1 goal after offside
2 correct offside