@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 Not at all, Sanil. Among my site members, many people come off #antidepressants & other drugs with slight or no withdrawal symptoms except an emotional anesthesia, which they may describe as depression, anhedonia, various kinds of malaise, even "relapse" but.... /1
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 ....it's a "relapse" unlike anything they've experienced before. While they may use #psychiatry's vocabulary, because that's all they've got, this emotional anesthesia is actually a result of long-term psychotropic exposure, not "relapse"..../2
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 Post-drug emotional anesthesia is well known among those who have gone off psychotropics classified as addictive & considered a feature of those protracted withdrawal syndromes. There is no reason to think chronic #psychiatric psychotropics are exempt..../3
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 Since some members stay in touch with us for years, what we've seen is in the absence of drug treatment, that this emotional anesthesia very gradually fades, same trajectory as other post-acute withdrawal symptoms. It can take years...../4
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 I experienced this emotional anesthesia myself, for a very long time. It was absolutely nothing like my original depression. Feature was a lack of sense of reward from anything, no moments of joy, no interest in anything, which was not at all true of my original depression..../5
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 I doubted I would ever be able to love again. It was a vast emotional nothingness. Still, very disturbing.
(I also had many, many withdrawal symptoms in protracted withdrawal. Took 11 years to recover.)..../6
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 I believe this phenomenon is a legacy of long-term psychotropic use, evidenced across psychotropics. Other than cultural investment, there is no reason to believe #antidepressants are a protected class exempt from the pharmacological laws that govern other psychotropics..../7
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 This is only one of many reasons people who seem to have no problems going off #antidepressants & other #psychiatric drugs seem to "relapse" months later. Quite often they ignore vague symptoms for a very long time until they become troublesome or prominent..../8
@sanilrege@markhoro@SenadHasanagic1 Or they simply may not report mild or vague symptoms to you because they very much want to believe drug treatment is behind them. It's a tragedy that many no longer need #psychiatric drugs & want to go off them, but cannot leave them behind due to iatrogenic post-drug effects. /9
With all due respect to the fine @awaisaftab, these are the varieties of #antidepressant withdrawal syndrome:
1) WS with only physical, no emotional symptoms 2) WS with both physical & emotional symptoms 3) WS with only emotional symptoms 4) WS manifested as emotional anesthesia
@awaisaftab Of the above, types 1 & 2 are WS, not "relapse", even if "depression" is present. Emotions such as those that compose "depression" do not exist apart from experience. Emotional reaction to feeling neurobiologically out of control should not be diagnosed as "depression".
@awaisaftab Type 3 may include the waves of intense anxiety, fear, & "black holes" characteristic of WS. Characterized by intense sensations with interludes of relative calm. Typically, these very gradually abate over months.
$10K cost per patient: "In late 2012, when the team finally had 6 months of data on 90 patients, the depression-score reductions....[were] essentially matched by the control group, who after 6 months with inactive devices had 17% hitting the improvement target & 7% in remission."
"As expected, it failed to help many....1st year, 10/90 patients left the study (& 4 had their devices removed), for reasons ranging from worsening depression to a suicide attempt. Eventually, of the 90 patients, 37—most of those who’d felt no benefit—had the devices removed."
"Also as expected for a surgical intervention in so depressed a population, some experienced side effects & complications....at least 9 ppl reported increased depression, 6 got infections, & several more suffered side effects such as headaches or postoperative discomfort or pain"
"One of Freeman's youngest [lobotomy] patients is today a 56-year-old bus driver living in California. Over the past 2 years, Howard Dully has embarked on a quest to discover the story behind the procedure he received as a 12-year-old boy." npr.org/2005/11/16/501…
"As those who watched the [lobotomy] procedure described it, a patient would be rendered unconscious by electroshock. Freeman would then take a sharp ice pick-like instrument, insert it above the patient's eyeball through the orbit of the eye...."
"....into the frontal lobes of the brain, moving the instrument back and forth. Then he would do the same thing on the other side of the face...." npr.org/2005/11/16/501…
Dystonia from #psychiatric drugs since 2014: "I have worked so hard over the years to increase my physical activity after WD, so I am extremely proud of the 2 or 3 times a week that I manage to shuffle up & down the block, and manage to lift tiny weights." survivingantidepressants.org/topic/7485-wig…
"If I "walk" (a.k.a. limp/amble/shuffle) too far or for too long, the D (dystonia) will flare. If I do too many reps with my small weights, the D will flare. If I have a cold or flu, the D will flare....I try maintain a balance of being lightly active so I can feel happy."
From her history: "-Dual cold turkeys off TCA & Ativan in Oct 2014. Prescribed from 2011-2014
-All meds were Rxed off-label for an autoimmune illness. It was a MISDIAGNOSIS, but I did not find out until AFTER meds caused damage. All med tapers/cold turkeys directed by doctors"
@awaisaftab Hello, Awais. I will attempt to answer your excellent questions. @HengartnerMP may wish to add his perspective as well. /1
@awaisaftab@HengartnerMP Re your #2: This was a retrospective study. Duration & symptom criteria from Chouinard & Chouinard, 2015 were used in selecting subject population. Other of C&C's criteria (C) were addressed in analysis & discussion. The paper only weakly corroborates C&C's criteria (C). /2
@awaisaftab@HengartnerMP "Greater severity of illness": We relied upon subjects reporting symptoms were qualitatively different than prior to treatment. It is impossible to quantify "greater severity", the symptoms being so various & most unlike original condition. They certainly were distressing. /3