Thread by @UR_Ninja

Part 2 of today's live tweets from the 'Sines v. Kessler' Charlottesville Unite The Right lawsuit trial starts here: -

from 10:37 AM until the next court break-

Part 1:

https://twitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/1456609136594939904?s=20

Michael Bloch, plaintiffs attorney with @IntegrityforUSA, is doing 're-direct' examination questioning of Richard Spencer after the various defendants finished cross-examining.

Bloch: Mr. Spencer, Mr. Cantwell asked you this morning - "at the torch march did you become aware some point that I had been arrested for my role..." and you said that you not, but then said you had heard that he had been arrested but not in relation to the torch light rally...?

Bloch shows a text from August 16, 2017 where Cantwell texted Spencer "I've got a warrant out for my arrest from UVA" and Spencer replied "I'm very sorry to hear that. Stay strong. Is is just in Virginia? And for what?"

Cantwell replied "I think its for the torch march brawl"

Bloch asks about Cantwell asking Spencer if he had been at the 'leadership meeting' at Mcintire Park on August 11 - Spencer had answered no, that he hadn't gone.

Bloch: in your deposition testimony...you answered "as we were headed to the torch march I think we might have picked up Evan McLaren and I remember seeing some of these guys open carrying..." and then says he saw guys "with weapons.. in Mcintire park beforehand..."

after pointing out that discrepancy, Bloch says he has no further Qs. But then Spencer (not asked any other questions) says that there was a separate meeting at Mcintire park on August 12 in the morning and that's what he was referring to

Spencer: there was a security meeting on August 11 in Mcintire park that I did not attend.. on August 12 before the rally.. and after.. there were large gatherings [in Mcintire park]...

Bloch: your testimony says "as we were headed to the torch march... I remember seeing some of these guys..."

Next "witness" called by the plaintiffs is a 7 minute video of Ike Baker (probably a deposition? Ike Baker is with the League of the South)

Judge Moon instructs the jury that each party should be judged separately, says that the deposition about to be played shouldn't be considered in regards to Cantwell because Cantwell wasn't at the deposition.

The video of Ike Baker's deposition is playing now - he states his full name as Robert Isaac Shelby Baker

The video deposition seems to have been taken remotely, Ike Baker looks different than in his rally photos - he has a longer beard and a green hat on, is wearing headphones

Right away Ike Baker gets testy asking the questioner to ask him to define "familiar" and "member" when asked if he is a member of the League of the South before admitting he's a member.

Do you hold any formal role in the League?

Baker: Chief of Operations

When did you become Chief of Operations?

Baker: sept 2017

Who appointed you in that role?

Baker: Michael Hill

Did you report to anyone in that role?

Baker: gonna ask you to clarify "report" please

Did you receive assignments?

Baker: yes

who from?

Baker: Michael Hill

Is there anyone else at the League that you report to?

Baker: not formally although as a courtesy, yes

And who are those individuals?

Baker: Michael Tubbs

You're familiar w the events of August 11-12, 2017 in Charlottesville?

Baker: August 12.. I was not there August 11

When did you arrive in Charlottesville?

Baker: the afternoon of Friday August 11

Mr. Hill did direct certain tasks to Mr. Tubbs, correct? And directed you to perform certain tasks?

Ike Baker: yes

Ike Baker is shown an email from Michael Hill to Michael Tubbs saying "Have a good talk with Ike Baker tonihgt. On-the-ground planning for Cville is coming along nicely... "

Do you recall having talks w Michael Hill about planning for Charlottesville?

Baker: i don't recall...

Did you handle on-the-ground planning for Charlottesville?

Baker: ...what I did was study the aerial photographs...maps... located a direct route in... and out... of that part of Charlottesville.. that was my responsibility as well as securing a secure parking area...

Baker is asked about giving parking information to the National Socialist Movement

You previously testified that you reached out to the Charlottesville Police, you had one convo and most of your calls were not returned?

Baker: yes

You said you talked to a detective Newberry & he provided no cooperation at all?

Baker: correct

Since the Cville police were not returning your calls... why did you expect assistance on august 12?

Ike Baker: we did not expect assistance we just expected lawful treatment

The Ike Baker deposition video is done playing now

Plaintiffs call their next witness - Michael Hill, leader of the League of the South (Hill and his group are also both defendants in the case.)

Hill was just sworn in and is seated in the witness stand now.

Alan Levine from the @IntegrityforUSA legal team will be questioning Michael Hill of the League of the South now.

Levine: You founded the League of the South in 1994.. and you've been president.. since the founding...?

Hill: yes

Levine: by 2016 the League had how many state chapters?

Hill: probably about 15.. most of the southern states and a few states outside of the south

Levine: The League of the South had a website... and you used that website to publish statements by you..?

Hill: largely me

Levine shows the jury a post from the League of the South website that Hill posted on August 18, 2016, entitled "Michael Hill: My pledge of allegiance"

Levine: that document... was for your 64th birthday...

Levin has Hill read sections from his post - it calls the south "White Man's Land" & "I pledge to be a white supremacist, a racist and an anti-Semite, a homophone, a xenophone, and Islamophobe & any other kind of phobe..."

Hill happily and loudly reads the statement from the website and just now loudly agrees with Levine when asked if he still is proud to be a white supremacist

Hill: I still hold those views

Levine: southern white nationalism seeks to create a white Aryan homeland, isn't that right?

Hill: we seek to create a white homeland

Levine: at that means returning Black people to their status under Jim Crow?

Hill: I've never said that

Levine pulls up an email sent by Hill on April 2, 2017 0 "negroes are incapable of creating or sustaining anything resembling western civilization... however when the civil rights revolution undermined white resolve and the negro was freed from white oversight and domination..."

the email from Michael Hillcalls for "the restoration of white dominance through various Jim Crow type laws"

Hill to Levine: I called for Jim Crow type laws, not Jim Crow laws... words matter

Levine: do you believe that white people are superior to Black people?

Hill tries to deny he believes that, gets really slippery, says "in some cases yes in some cases no"

Levine pulls Michael Hill's same email back up that says "negroes are incapable of creating or sustaining anything resembling western civilization"

Levine: are these your words?

Hill: yes

Levine: are you saying those words don't mean white people are superior to Black people?

Hill: in terms of creating civilization yes, in other areas, no.

Levine pulls up a League of the South website post (PX-1899) from a year after Unite The Right by Hill, it says in part:

"Rather we see ourselves as the soul of the Hard Right, an uncompromising movement of real blood and soil Southern/White nationalists who will not compromise our vision of a Southern homeland for Whites... we are firm on the Negro Question and the Jew Question.." - Hill email

Levine: you not only consider yourself an anti-Semite but for you... the Jewish people... are your enemies, is that right?

Hill: yes

Levine: you went to Tennessee in 2018 to speak to League members and supporters... please take a look at the video.. is that you speaking?

Hill: that's me

YouTube video shows Michael Hill saying "for 109 times in the history of the world the Jew has been banished ... lord we as that you make # 110 come soon... we ask we to reveal to the world the hoax that the Jew has been perpetrating now for 80 years.. called the Holocaust..."

Video shows Hill burning a Torah in what he calls "holy oven fires"

Levine: you burned an Israeli flag, a Talmud, & the Communist Manifesto?

Hill: that's right

Levine: you burned Marx.. bc he was Jewish... in your view Jews are responsible for communism, correct?

Hill: yes

Levine: you believe that violence is necessary to achieve the southern white society that you believe is necessary...?

Hill: I'm not sure that it would be in all cases

Levine: let's pull up PX-1567...an email from you to the League of the South board of directors in June 2017

The email shows Hill writing to the League - "We southern nationalists - white southerners - will have no part of any of this. In fact, we are willing to fight, kill and die, and stop it..."

Levine: your view is that you and your League members are going to have to use violence, or be prepared to use violence, to achieve the white nationalist society that you envision?

Hill: we are prepared to do whatever is necessary...

Levine is now showing PX-1923C, a video Michael Hill gave at a League of the South conference before Unite The Right - "we need to become warriors, that is develop the warrior mind set in every facet of our lives... we are at war already..."

Levine: when you used the word warrior there, you meant it both literally and figuratively?

Hill: I meant it both ways

Levine: the street battle and fighting at Charlottesville 2.0 is the exact kind of battle that you planned for, isn't that right?

Hill: that isn't right

Levine shows a video of Hill saying: "When you stand up like we stood up in the streets of Cville...I'm so proud..that was a day of great pride... we showed the enemy on that day we are here and we are not backing down.. this is what it's going to take..."

Levine is asking Michael Hill about the process of Jason Kessler inviting Hill and the League of the South to Unite The Right, inviting Hill to be a speaker.

Hill's attorney objects, Judge Moon overrules the objection saying Hill is "obviously adverse"

Levine: you accepted the invitation to speak... for the League to participate...?

Hill: yes

Levine shows the jury a flyer for Unite The Right that includes Dr. Michael Hill as a speaker along w Richard Spencer & other defendants

Levine: you assigned roles to various League members to lead different aspects of the League's participation in Charlottesville 2.0... you asked Michael Tubbs.. to be involved in the operation that day?

Hill: yes I did

Levine: you asked Brad Griffin... to handle public relations?

Hill: correct

Levine: and you knew there was a Discord server... for planning Charlottesville 2.0... you were invited to designate someone from the League to have access...?

Hill: I was invited to participate in the Discord.. I sent someone in my place to monitor

Levine: to monitor and participate, correct?

Hill: I sent Baker to monitor

Levine: you stayed involved in general strategy, and everyone reported to you...?

Hill: everyone in the League reported back to me... I'm the president

Levine shows exhibit PX-1551 - an email Hill sent to Michael Tubbs on July 12, 2017

7/12/17 email from Michael Hill to Michael Tubbs:

"Had a good talk with Ike Baker tonight. On-the-ground planning for Cville is coming along nicely, much to do but the Pikeville template, on a larger scale, looks like it will work well there. He will be in touch..."

Levine reads an email from Hill to League of the South from May 2017 -

"this is an official call for resistance, I have spoken with many of you...You know what it means...on this matter.. I want no discussion here or anywhere else online about any...strategies, tactics.. those will all be handled through secure channels..." - Hill email

Levine shows Michael Hill another email exchange he had with Ike Baker on July 13, 2017

Hill email: "I spoke with Mr. Kessler about inviting David Duke to speak; he agreed to have him give the keynote speech at the after-event gathering..."

Levine: you did speak w Duke and arrange for his attendance?

Hill: I put him in contact w Kessler and they made they arrangements

Levine: you did speak with other white nationalist groups to ensure a big turnout for Unite The Right?

Hill: that's not the reason we talked to those groups

Levine: you worked with Matt Heimbach to create the Nationalist Front...

Levine is starting to refer to the transcript from Michael Hill's deposition - he was asked if he said the Nationalist Front was "the brainchild of Matthew Heimbach" and he said "that is correct"

Hill: I have no direct evidence Heimbach was the originator.. that's what i heard

Levine is going over details of the Nationalist Front as a coalition between Heimbach's Traditionalist Worker Party, the League of the South, National Socialist Movement and Vanguard America

Levine: the Nationalist Front was an alliance of these groups that all shared the same white nationalist views and goals, correct?

Hill: some of the goals I wouldn't say all

Levine: and they shared common enemies... including the Jew?

Hill: correct

Levine shows PX-1918, May 15 2017 post from the League's website - a statement by Michael Hill entitled "Working with our nationalist allies" that says "I am very happy that The League is now working with several other nationalist groups... we have the same common enemy..."

Levine: the League wouldn't have attended Charlottesville 2.0 unless you understood that all the speakers shared the same beliefs...?

Hill: we didn't share all the same exact beliefs...

Levine: in your deposition... you said "I would not have gone if I had thought that they would have been in opposition to it" when asked if you would have asked League members to go to Charlottesville if the speakers didn't share your beliefs..?

Levine is going over Hill's deposition answers about how he knew Jeff Schoep (National Socialist Movement leader) was involved in planning for Unite The Right, after Hill tried to say just now in court that he wasn't sure about Schoep's involvement

Levine: you had a convo w Ike Baker who suggested that he talk with Jeff Schoep about the National Socialist Movement's participation in Charlottesville 2.0, correct?

Hill: yes, to discuss logistics of getting in and getting out of the event

Levine: and participating with the National Socialist Movement in the events of the day?

Hill: that's a very general statement... yes that's what I'm saying

Levine: and you told Baker to be sure that Jeff Schoep was on board... didn't Baker report back to you that Schoep was 100 percent on board...?

Hill: i don't recall that exact language but I do recall him telling me he was participating

Levine shows PX-1545, shows a portion of a message from Ike Baker to Michael Hill on July 13, 2017:

"Jeff Schoep is 1--% onboard, sire... He also asked to be kept abreast and that I coordinate NSM participation with two of his people, one of whom I'm well acquainted with..."

Levine: you wrote a speech to NSM encouraging their participation and asked Ike Baker to read it to them for you..?

Hill: that's right

Levine shows a copy of the speech Hill sent as League of the South leader to Baker to read to the NSM pushing them to attend UTR

Levine publishes to the jury the email of the speech Hill had Baker deliver to the NSM. It includes a quotation of the "14 words" neo-nazi mantra.

Hill is getting combative with Levine about whether or not the 14 words have anti-semitic or racist implications

Levine: is it your testimony... that these 14 words are not 14 code words known by.. white supremacists like yourself?

Hill: i can't define these terms for anyone but myself...you're asking me to give you a definition of this based on someone else's perception of it...

Levine: is it your testimony.. that those 14 words.. weren't referring to hatred for Jews or Black people?

Hill: the words mean what the words say and there isn't any mention in here of what you say.. I have white children..and I am defending them.. that's what it means...

Levine puts back up the speech Hill to NSM. After it quotes the 14 words for allegedly non-racist purposes, Hill's speech reads "we are compassed around with enemies who seek our destruction... in the form of the international Jew...to below in the dark shape of the negro.."

Levine: you expected counter-protesters and you thought a street confrontation with them would be fun, didn't you?

Hill: I don't recall having ever said that

Levine pulls up a June 9, 2017 League website post from Hill announcing his group's participation in Unite The Right. "Antifa BLM, et all will be there to greet us! Don't miss out on the fun!"

Levine: when you were talking about fun, you weren't talking about tailgating... you were talking about 'mixing it up' with counter-protesters, isn't that right?

Hill: that isn't right.

Levine shows Hill a September 2017 statement by Hill where he wrote "we wanted a public confrontation in Charlottesville for the world to see and we got it.. do we want another or do we want a staged event... for optics"

Levine: in the email you said "For instance we wanted a public confrontation in Charlottesville for the world to see" - isn't it a fact that the confrontation you wanted would come from baiting antifa and Black Lives Matter supporters...?

Hill: no

Levine: don't you say in the paragraph above that -

"We will invite our Nationalist Front allies to participate and will use this as "bait" to draw Antifa, BLM etc into opposition"

(the email shown to the jury clearly shows Hill did write that)

Hill: we wanted a rally that had opposition because it is good opitcs

Levine: didn't you want street violence with them?

Hill: incorrect

Levine: didn't you praise Michael Tubbs for engaging in street violence in Charlottesville?

Hill: if you show me i can confirm or deny

Levine shows the jury 8/15/17 email to Michael Hill where someone says "Mr. Michael Tubbs was on FoxNews leading the troops into battle and coordinating attack..."

Hill replied, "Mr. Tubbs indeed was much the warrior as were all of our men who joined us at Charlottesville..."

Levine shows Tweets by Michael Hill ("I don't have access to that Twitter account anymore" - Hill), Levine points out that the @ occdissent account tagged in these was Brad Griffin of the League of the South

Levine: you designated Mr. Tubbs to lead the League members on Saturday, August 12 because you knew you could count on him.. to lead...soldiers.. you had Mr. Tubbs leading the group because he was 6'5 and very intimidating?

Hill: no I had Mr. Tubbs leading the group because he's my chief of staff

Levine shows the jury tweets from Michael Hill including one that says
"Mr. Tubbs was everywhere the chaos was."

Levine: Didn't Mr. Tubbs tell you that he was hoping for violence that day?

Hill: I don't recall him ever using the terms that he was hoping for violence that day

Levine pulls up a July 7 email exchange between Michael Hill & Michael Tubbs:

7/7/17 email from Hill to Tubbs & others:

"Antifa will indeed show up in large numbers in Cville..." and will have weapons etc- Hill

Tubbs responded to Hill's email: "While...we haven't had any hard intel so far to make us believe there was going to be violence I think we all assumed there would be (and maybe even hoped for it)"

Hill claims to Levine that that email from Tubbs didn't show Tubbs was "hoping for violence"

Levine is now asking about the League of the South shields, Hill claims League member Danny Hembry (sp)? "made them and presented them to me of his own volition"

Hill is claiming the League of the South shields were "for defensive purposes."

Levine shows him a League document where he says the shields would be a "formidable sight."

Levine asks is members were told to wear helmets, Hill says he "recommended it" as a "defensive measure"

Levine is asking Hill about the League's uniform for Unite The Right, Hill admits he carried a "walking stick" and a concealed weapon.

Asked by Levine if he used his waking stick to attack counter-protesters, Hill says he did not.

Levine shows the jury a photo from August 12 of Hill striking someone with his cane.

Hill: "My walking stick was grabbed away from me by him first and I wrested it away from him"

Levine shows a Tweet Michael Hill put out on July 24, 2017 - "If you want to defend the South and Western civilization from the Jew and his dark-skinned allies, be at Charlottesville on 12 August."

Levine: you were actually hoping to recruit people with that message, is that right?

Hill: I don't remember that specifically...

Levine refers to Hill's deposition where he was asked about the tweet where he agreed under oath that he did intend the tweet to get people to come to Charlottesville and possibly join the League of the South as members before attending.

Hill just now claims he "forgot"

Levine: when you wrote that statement you didn't say "defend democracy from antifa", did you... you said "defend...civilization... from the Jew and his dark-skinned allies" - that isn't a political call, its racial...

Hill: it's political to me...

Levine: this was a call to battle to advance your racially motivated objectives, was it not?

Hill: no it was a political call... to defend our civilization...

Levine: to defend it against "the Jew" and "his dark skinned allies"...?

Levine is asking Hill about his attendance about a planning meeting on Friday night at the compound where the League of the South was staying. Hill says he doesn't remember if Matt Heimbach was there or not

Levine: Cesar Ortiz, Mr. Heimbach's security man was there?

Hill: I don't recall

Levine: you had that meeting on Friday night and that's why you didn't go to the torch march?

Hill: you can't be two places at one time... I didn't find out about the torch march...

Levine: in your deposition...you agreed you "didn't decide not to participate in the torch rally for tactical reasons", you did it because you had your meeting that night

Levine: you weren't opposed torch light rallies for tactical reasons... you appointed people to go... League members attended...

Levine: it's true that you knew about the torch rally before it happened?

Hill: yes

Levine: you never disavowed it... in fact you were impressed with it?

Hill: it looked very good...

Levine: you knew some of the chants at the rally were "Jews will not replace us", "blood and soil"... if you praised the torch march you must have watched a video of it?

Hill: i must have seen some videos of it... I don't remember hearing the chants

Judge Moon: recess for lunch now til 1:30

When we come back @IntegrityforUSA attorney Alan Levine will continue his direct examination questioning of defendant Michael Hill, leader of the League of the South (the League is also a defendant in this case)

Part 3 of Sines v. Kessler live tweets from today (Friday, November 5 after the lunch break) begins here:

https://twitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/1456675798652375042?s=20

Part 4 begins here:

https://twitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/1456702046350938116