Thread by @LawBeatInd

A Special Bench of #KarnatakaHighCourt will at 2.30 PM resume hearing plea(s) by girl students challenging alleged ban on wearing #Hijab in government PU colleges in Udupi district. S.S.Naganand,Sr.Adv, is expected to continue making his submissions #HijabRow

Yesterday, AG Prabhuling Navadgi argued that Islam can survive without #Hijab and cited the example of France where it is banned in public places #HijabBan

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Bench assembles #KarnatakaHijabRow

Naganand resumes his submissions.

Naganand: The petitioners here have posed for photographs for Aadhar card without #Hijab #HijabControversy

Naganand: It is not as though these students are professing any faith in that sense that they should always be wearing #Hijab in public.

#HijabBan #HijabRow

Naganand takes the court through his compilation. Tells the court that there is no cause of action.

Court: Have they given any date ?

Naganand: No milord.They are only saying they stopped us from practicing religion

Court: That is only on 30th of December #HijabRowInKarnataka

Naganand takes the court through resolution of the college "It is decided to make uniforms compulsory, this was in 2004." #HijabRow

Court: Uniform is compulsory since 2004?

Naganand: Yes, there has been no issue. It has been the same uniform #KarnatakaHijabControversy

Naganand takes the court through previous resolutions confirming uniform. #HijabRow #KarnatakaHijabControversy

Naganand: "Some persons from Campus Front Of India asked the college to permit #Hijab they behaved very rashly."

Court: What is CFI?

Naganand : Campus Front of India, it is a voluntary organisation which is spearheading this drum beating and beating of chest for #Hijab they are not an educational institution. #HijabRow #HijabRowInKarnataka

Court: The government must be having some inputs about this organisation?

Naganand: The IB (Intelligence Bureau) must be having it.

Court to AG: Do you have any input?

AG: I have some input.

Court: All of a sudden how this has #HijabRow

Counsel: If the report covers one organisation, all the organisations should be covered. They are saying some ministers are involved.

Subhash Jha: There are at least 5 organisation like SFIO involved

#HijabRow #KarnatakaHijabControversy

Naganand : There is also information that some teachers are being threatened by this organisation. They were scared to lodge a complaint. A complaint has been lodged recently #HijabRow #HijabRowInKarnataka

Naganand: One more allegation is that we were scolding students, these are seasoned teachers. These children are like their own.

Court: When was the police complaint lodged?

AG: In the last couple of days.

Court: State should have disclosed it to us, are you afraid? #HijabRow

Naganand: They are in the petition making generalised allegations. They say that the threat was to mark them absent. If they dont attend they will mark them absent, what is the threat here? #HijabRow They say not rewarding internal marks, which exam?

Naganand: The two representation that they gave in December do not contain these allegations. They dont say anything that is mentioned in the petition. This was done in September, why give a complaint after 3 months ? #HijabRow

Naganand: The affidavit is signed by the Mother of petitioner No.1, the petitioner has become a major, her affidavit was signed by her mother. #HijabRow #HijabControversy

Naganand: I am not raising this as a technical issue. All this if seen in the context of facts, how will the mother know what happened in class and know what happened to other students? Only one affidavit has been filed #HijabRow

Naganand: The valuable time of this court is being wasted because of these bald allegations. The question is if the prescription of the dress code by college violative of Article 25 #HijabRow

Naganand: Freedom of religion and freedom of conscience are both there. Freedom of conscience means if the voice which we always hear from the heart. It is what your heart tells you #HijabRow

Naganand: The constitution makers wanted a person to have his own though process, they did not want to curtail it. The juxtaposition between religion, religious practices, culture, cultural practices are all laid down by courts #HijabRow

Naganand: Justice Dixit has been saying public order is an expression which has to take colour from the context. The expression public order in 25 (1) may not mean the same thing as Article 19 #HijabRow

Naganand: When there is an attempt made to keep order, it is public order. Not necessary that order comes from disorder. Uniform was to keep order #HijabRow

Naganand refers to H.M.Seervai's commentary of the constitution. #HijabRow

Naganand: We have to interpret Article 25 standing alone, we cannot import new meaning to public order. I have a child at home, who is misbehaving, I tell the child not to misbehave, it throws a fit. Then the father or the mother will berate the child.

Naganand: If it continues, the child will get a slap also. This is a parental right. Imagine the same scenario in the classroom. The teacher will the child, if the child is defiant the next step is applied #HijabRow

Naganand: Authority says, when you send the child to school the teachers have the right to discipline the child. The teachers can exercise quasi parental authority #HijabRow

Naganand: The authority vests not only while you are in the school even while going to school and coming also it vests. The school has said wear a uniform. There are some ultra Orthodox Brahmins who dont wear shirt #HijabRow

Naganand: If these boys says it is their religion they will do it, then what will happen? School has to maintain discipline inside the classroom. This has not been questioned from 2004 #HijabRow

Naganand: The CDC is acting on behalf of the college, it is not a stranger. How does the presence of an MLA make a difference? I am to discharge my duty to justify the position I occupy. School is different from assembly, they are different roles #HijabRow

Naganand: CFI has come and instigated the children and parents. #HijabRow

Court: Where is the legal authorisation to induct MLAs into committee?

Court: Anyway, that is not under challenged.

Naganand: The opening words of Article 25, the language is very clear it says "subject to" it means fundamental right is subject to so many things, its not absolute #HijabRow

Naganand takes the court through 2000 7 SCC 282. Pertaining to loud speakers used in a Church #HijabRow

Naganand: They say even if praying is permitted, where has it been said that loudspeakers should be permitted. If in the wisdom of the CDC, they independently take a decision that they should be uniforms they feel it is good for students because it will rid them of overarching

Religious beliefs- Naganand #HijabRow

Naganand: There is a case where the Hindus made a plea that bursting crackers is their religious right and the court said no.

Reads the judgment.

#HijabRow

Naganand : The last judgment on this Afzal's case pertaining to Azan by Allahabad High Court. #HijabRow

Naganand: I have also referred to the right of a Sikh religious person to carry a Kirpan, I have just given it for completeness. #HijabRow

Reads from his note regarding abolition of Sati and Polygamy, judgment of #SupremeCourt in Khurshid Ahmed Khan's case

Naganand: When there is a freedom it does not mean that it is absolute. #HijabRow

Refers to an American judgment pertaining to censorship in America.

Naganand: The US Supreme Court is saying look at India's constitution, the regulation is necessary, we would have loved to have it.

Court: The US had no benefit of Dr.Ambedkar.We had. #HijabRow

Naganand: I will now read from Bijoe Emanual, much argument has been addressed on it. It proceeds on the premise and assumption that Jehovah's witnesses should not sing or praise any God, therefore the court reached the conclusion #HijabRow

Naganand: In Iran during the Shah's rule, Tehran was called Paris of the East. The life there was as flamboyant and luxurious as it was in Paris. There was no purdah, the Shah did not believe in this. So the women were completely free #HijabRow

Naganand: A lot of women used to come from Iran to Bangalore. At that time there was no need for Purdah in a Muslim state. What it is now the court has to decide. #HijabRow

Naganand refers to the judgment of Bombay High Court from 1922.

Naganand : In this case which part of the Hindu law principles will apply to Khoja and Katch Muslims who say certain sections of Hindu laws apply to them #HijabRow

Naganand: For certain classes of Muslims, the traditional Sharia law does not apply to them. Hindu Laws apply to them. The court has upheld this 100 years ago. Does this mean this is contrary to religious practice? It is well settled #HijabRow

Naganand: The application of Hindu law to Kutchi Memons was restricted to Succession and inheritance #HijabRow

A friend from this community argued that Wealth Tax act was not applicable to him as Traditional Muslim Law does not apply to me

Naganand: Let the drum beaters on the roads not threaten the society, we are a harmonious society. The pontiffs of the Udupi Matha were helped by Muslim brethren there. They participate in the festivals there #HijabRow

Naganand: We must tell our children dont make a distinction of any kind. The divine spark is there in everyone. Children come to school they are told not to wear external symbols of religion. Now Right wing boys want to wear a Saffron scarf. Are we going to polarise ? #HijabRow

Raghavendra Srivatsa : I would like to cover the aspect of position in other jurisdiction with respect to freedom of religion. I will be very brief. #HijabRow

Court: We will go through this #HijabRow

Srivatsa: I will just briefly submit.

Court: We are totally on the constitutional issue, so far as freedom of religion, we will consider it.

Srivatsa: American judgments have no place in our constitution. There the freedom of religion is virtually unlimited there is no restriction. #HijabRow

Srivatsa: In Turkey, in a State funded religious school wearing of #Hijab has been prohibited. The European Court has upheld this. When the girls attend classes of Quran they were permitted. Here we are a secular institution #HijabRow

Court: We have been saying when Malaysian judgment was referred, why at all we should travel that far. #HijabRow

Srivatsa: The next is a comprehensive research article by academicians on the judgment of the European Court. I am inviting your attention only to ensure that "noble thoughts come from all directions." #HijabRow

Sajan Povayya is called upon to argue.

Povayya: I will be brief milords, a written submission has been circulated. #HijabRow

Povayya: I represent the Chairman and President of CDC and the Vice President. I adopt everything said by Mr.Naganand. The question of outsourcing of the school to some political entity #HijabRow

Povayya: The 2014 circular did not entrust any authority to any political organisation. A committee was formulated to ensure that imparting education in line with the local requirements. The MLA heading the committee may not be from the ruling party #HijabRow

Povayya: There are bylaws constituted by this committee. Apart from the president, there is a VP who is the Municipal President of this area or someone of higher standing. The committee has a representation from all walks #HijabRow

Povayya: the MLA is not there because he is an MLA, the MLA is there because he knows the local requirement. #HijabRow This petition seems to have been drafted overnight and it consists only a rhetoric

Povayya: When your lordships consider rights under Article 25 two differences must be borne out. A right to wear a religious attire is amenable to 25 and not 19 (1) (A) hence there are restrictions #HijabRow

Povayya: Please see 39 (F) which was interestingly brought in by the 42nd amendment which also brought in the word secularism in our constitution #HijabRow

Povayya: The freedom of conscience is the right to follow any religion or not follow any religion. Once I have decided to adopt a religion it is forum externum, it is qualified under Article 25(2) #HijabRow

Povayya: The State cannot ask me why I am a Muslim, however the State has the right to restrict attire. Education in this country especially with the aid of government is a secular activity #HijabRow

Povayya: No student who is getting instruction from a public institution cannot insist that they can wear a religious attire even if it is an ERP #HijabRow

Povayya: There was an argument on positive secularism, it was laid down in SR Bommai. It says that State should endeavour that there should be no religious interference in educational institution at all #HijabRow

Povayya: Just because I have a right under Article 25 right, does it mean that the State cannot do anything? #HijabRow

Povayya: Karnataka Education Act says that institution has the right to ensure that secularism is imparted. The world is moving towards a uniform which is gender neutral, they must have gender neutral uniform #HijabRow

Povayya: There are 900 odd students in this school. 100 children belong to Muslim faith, out of these 100 only 5 children insist that they want to wear #Hijab #HijabRow

Povayya: Can the school make an exception for these 5 students? Udupi has many government institutions they can choose to go to an institution that does not prescribe uniform #HijabRow

Povayya: Most of these children are minor, the decision whether to wear a #Hijab is on them when they attain majority. I have a duty to ensure that I achieve secularism in the from the constitution #HijabRow

Justice Khazi: Is this an all girls school?

Povayya : Milords, I am an all girls college, aided by the government. This issue has newly cropped up. #HijabRow

Court: We just want to know if these petitioners are students of girls school.

Povayya: In this petitioner it is girls

Povayya reads from SR Bommai Vs Union of India #HijabRow

Povayya: Imparting education through public instruction is a secular education. The role of religion should be kept to the minimum #HijabRow

Povayya: Doesn't matter if you are a Hindu or Muslim or Christian. Everybody has the same uniform milords. When I prescribe uniform as an institution religion for me is irrelevant #HijabRow

Povayya: Rule 11 empowers an institution to impose uniform. There is no challenge to it. On Public Order after Sabarimala the issue is settled. Maintaining cohesiveness is school is a matter of tranquility #HijabRow

Povayya: Imposing uniform in school to maintain secularism is public order. #HijabRow

Povayya: I cannot teach these students Physics, Geography and Chemistry and tell them to come in religious attire. Schooling is not just about academia, it is about overall development #HijabRow

Povayya: #SupremeCourt has said that even if you are a religious institution you have to maintain certain amount of secularism #HijabRow

Povayya: A lot of Turkish and South African judgments have been brought before this court. Nobody seems to be apprising the analysis. This is a Turkish judgment where a student was not permitted to wear #Hijab even in higher education #HijabRow

Povayya: Article 25 is a right to follow a religion. Not a right to wear religious attire. #HijabRow

Povayya: I have 100 Muslim Children, 5-8 children want to wear a #Hijab. What about the other children? Will they be areligious ? #HijabRow

Povayya: I will now come to the test of necessary in a democracy. A lady or a man can wear religious attire when they go to pray, if they come into the domain of a secular activity, they cant bring their religious manifestation there #HijabRow

Povayya: The necessary in a democratic society is that it is necessary to maintain secular values in all public institutions #HijabRow

*Audio unclear*

Povayya reads from a judgment of European Court of Justice #HijabRow

Povayya: Because a Muslim child is wearing a #Hijab a Hindu child comes and says they will wear a saffron scarf. Both of these are not positive #HijabRow

Povayya reads from the Sabarimala judgment #HijabRow

Povayya: If we say a child who wears a #Hijab is prevented from wearing it to school. Does it alter the religion ? Does this mean that the others who do not wear a #Hijab not adhering? I can go to a temple in Denim Jeans, because this is not the essence of relgion #HijabRow

Povayya: The basic constitutional value for me as a school is to protect secular values. Do I permit a protective attire to a girl child and simple attire to a boy child just to protect her modesty? Today in a democratic society community standard is rule of law #HijabRow

Povayya: Why is it that we teach our girl child to dress modestly and not the boys ? Are girls any less, the constitution does not say this #HijabRow

Povayya: The law is that court is central to taking a decision on whether its an ERP or not. They have not filed a single affidavit to establish this. #HijabRow

Povayya reads the judgment of #SupremeCourt on Right to privacy.

Povayya: Freedom of conscience is subject Article 25. Maintaining a secular order is the paramount duty of the institution and the State #HijabRow

Povayya: A good school will support a girl child when she says she does not want to wear #Hijab . For that I need to instil secular values. Uniform is prescribed to remove discrimination #HijabRow

Povayya: Even assuming it is an Essential Religious Practice, I am obligated to ensure that nothing religious is brought in #HijabRow

Counsel in the court mentions that he is for Respondent 8.

Counsel: Teachers.

Court: What more is to be argued for teachers? #HijabRow

Kamat: Can I get time to rejoin?

Court: You will get your time

Court: All the intervenors file a written submission. We cannot continue to hear this matter for 6 months. We want you all to be brief and finish your arguments as soon as possible #HijabRow

Counsel: A man has been killed two days ago because of they are not able to figure out if it is religious practice or not. #Harsha

Court: File a criminal case

Counsel Tahir: There is a plea by the degree college students seeking clarification on the interim order.

AG: Students from same college are approaching.

Court: Order is very clear.

Counsel: Citing this order institutions are pushing students out #HijabRow

AG: He has filed a WP in respect of Bhandarkar college, the institution has said that they have passed a resolution saying that they have a uniform #HijabRow

Counsel: They are doing so overnight based on the order.

Court: We will have to believe what the college say

AG: If somebody has violated this order, it has to be brought before the court stating the violation of the order. That has to be impugned.

Court: We are making it clear if the uniform has been prescribed in a degree college, government college it has to be followed. #HijabRow

Counsel: Teachers are being forced to remove their headscarf.

Court: Order confines to students only. Thank you very much tomorrow at 2.30. Arguments of Naganand and Povayya have been heard. It is informed that counsel for R 8 has to make submissions, put up tomorrow.