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#DisclosuresTribunal to resume at 9am with 3 witnesses - news editor of the Irish Mail on Sunday Robert Cox, former news editor of Irish Sun Fergus O'Shea and security corr of Irish Independent Tom Brady. Hearing will sit until 12.45pm.
#DisclosuresTribunal Tom Brady, who retired from his position as security editor of the Irish Independent in November 2014, is now giving evidence.
#DisclosuresTribunal Brady confirms he knows former Garda Commissioners Martin Callinan, Noirin O'Sullivan and Supt Dave Taylor
#DisclosuresTribunal Kathleen Leader BL, for tribunal, now putting Colm Kenny's allegation to Brady.
#DisclosuresTribunal (sorry Colum Kenny - DCU professor and journalist). This is what Kenny said:
#DisclosuresTribunal Kenny also said this:
#DisclosuresTribunal Leader said that Kenny nominated the date this took place: Feb 19 2014. Kenny says this conversation took place and he never had a conversation with the other journalist nominated by Kenny (Paul Reynolds). Kenny also says he wasn't at this Dail comm meeting
#DisclosuresTribunal [NOTE: Paul Reynolds has also told the tribunal that he wasn't at this Dail committee meeting and denies saying this to Kenny]
#DisclosuresTribunal Brady: It's possible I was with Paul Reynolds and Colum Kenny in passing, said hello..but I don't remember seeing him at any meeting in Leinster House.
#DisclosuresTribunal Brady says he heard rumour about a sex abuse allegation against Sgt McCabe in 2013. Brady says it wouldn't have been a guard and he thinks it was a journalist.
#DisclosuresTribunal Brady said he didn't act/do anything with the information for a number of months when it was circulating again. When it resurfaced, he spoke to a senior garda who gave him the facts (allegation, investigation, DPP ruled against it) but he can't remember who
#DisclosuresTribunal Brady said that was the end of it for him (once he learned the DPP's decision) Brady said he had heard about Paul Williams' articles before they were published. Brady said he didn't see PW's video of his interview with Ms D
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell, for McCabe, asking Brady questions. McDowell recalls Brady's career and fact-checking. Brady: My practice was to go as high as I could in relation to any story, Chairman.
#DisclosuresTribunal McD asking Brady about the decision in INM to publish Paul Williams' articles. INM counsel steps in to say Stephen Rae (group editor of INM) was here last week and McD didn't ask him any questions. INM counsel suggests the questioning might not be fruitful
#DisclosuresTribuanl Judge: It may or may not be fruitful... but unfortunately this is the 5th journalistic conflict, direct conflict
#DisclosuresTribunal Brady: I wasn't privy to the information [concerning PW's articles], I was never ocnsulted..never asked to any of the meetings.. Brady says only conversation he ever had with Kenny about McCabe was in Nov 2016
#DisclosuresTribunal Fergus O'Shea, formerly of the Irish Sun, is giving evidence. It's been Evann Murray's evidence that FOS sent her to Cavan in March 2016 - after hearing about Paul Williams pending stories about Ms D
#DisclosuresTribunal FOS says he can't recall sending EM to Ms D's house/Cavan. FOS: I remember Ms Murray coming to me and saying there may have been an allegation, it was unclear but it was about McCabe and the alleged vicitm might be willing to talk to us
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan: Had you heard anything in relation to the Ms D allegation or any history as far as Sgt McCabe was concerned - prior to Ms Murray saying it to you? FOS: No.
#DisclosuresTribunal FOS says he spoke to the then editor of the Irish Sun Paul Clarkson about the matter. FOS says they felt it was best to "steer clear" of the story.
#DisclosuresTribunal FOS says he can't recall telling EM he'd heard Paul Williams was going to publish an exclusive on Ms D.
#DisclosuresTribunal FOS: I was No.2 on newsdesk, depending on who was on that day, it could have been someone else who told her. FOS: [In relation to who sent EM to Cavan] I find it hard to believe I'd have made that decision on my own
#DIsclosuresTribunal FOS: I don't remmebr saying anything to her, I don't remember anything about the Irish Independent story..I've a vague recollection of her going..that's it, I moved on... FOS also says that he's no recollection go speaking to EM after she came back from Cavan
#DisclosuresTribunal Counsel for Taylor asking if the Irish Sun newsroom knew of the Ms D allegation. FOS: I can't speak for entire newsroom. FOS says he had no knowledge of Ms D allegation against Sgt McCabe before EM said it to him.
#DisclosuresTribunal FOS says it's possible other people heard about it but he didn't hear it spoken about. FOS says he never heard the Irish Sun's crime editor Stephen Breen talking about it.
#DisclosuresTribunal EM's counsel says the main point of distinction between FOS and EM is that EM's evidence is that the first time FOS and EM discussed Ms D allegation is evening before she went to Ms D. FOS evidence is there was an earlier chat. FOS: That's my recollection.
#DisclosuresTribunal FOS tells EM's counsel that he does not recall knowing Paul Williams was to publish a story about Ms D. FOS: I'm quite clear, I definitely did not hear about the Indo...if what she's saying is true, it might have been somebody else who heard it in the office.
#DisclosuresTribunal After further questions from Marrinan, FOS: Ms Murray was more interested in this story than anyone else in the newsroom
#DisclosuresTribunal Deputy Editor of the Irish Mail on Sunday Robert Cox is now giving evidence. In 2013/2014 he was deputy news editor
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox says he's never spoken to Martin Callinan, NOS and he's pretty confident he never spoke to Dave Taylor - save for possible contact with him when he was working in Star previously
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox speaking about how crime correspondent Debbie McCann spoke in a news conference about how she was caught by speeding camera driving 5km over limit and legitimately wrote to her supt - her FCPN was subsequently quashed
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox is talking about how McCann told him she had heard murmurings about McCabe. Cox said he asked her to get more details. Cox said this happened after Callinan's 'disgusting' remark.
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox: Once Callinan said that 'disgusting' remark, it became a whole different ball game..any allegations in the ether......everyone following the story, wondered what was behind it [the 'disgusting' remark]...
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox says, some weeks later, McCann came back to him and told him she knew there had been an allegation, it was related to a minor, it was in relation to child abuse, it was historic and the DPP decided not to press charges.
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox: I think she had the name of the family and I think she knew that it involved a colleague but the address, no, she didn't, at that stage, have the address.
#DisclosuresTribunal Asked if McCann told him who firmed up this info for her, Cox: To be honest I can't be sure..I know now it was from a variety of sources...I don't know if I knew then it was a variety of sources...but usually, with Debbie, she'd have more than one source
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox said he formed the view that McCann should travel to Cavan.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness SC, for tribunal, asking Cox about his conversations with McCann after her visit to Ms D. Cox: The reason you put people on doors is because they will glean info...our process would be for reporters to tell me exactly what happened.
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox: I asked her what exactly happened and she said she only had brief conversation with the mother (Mrs D) and she said the mother mentioned it was very hard to listen to the radio and that Sgt McCabe had been on the news and that was pretty much it.
#DisclosuresTribunal Asked if McCann appeared upset after speaking to Mrs D, Cox: There's a thing called confirmation bias..if someone talks to you, you naturally empathise with them...usually reporters will suffer from it more than editors.
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox: I got the impression from Debbie that she believed the mother believed her daughter. That was the only impression I got from Debbie.
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox: The story she told me, she told another member of our team and then on the Saturday, it would probably have been disucssed in the office - that she made an approach and the approach was not successful...
#DisclosuresTribunal Earlier Cox said he was happy to clarify that Alison O'Reilly HAD been approved to go to Cavan - to meet former Garda John Wilson. It had been formerly claimed by the Mail that AOR hadn't had permission
#DisclosuresTribunal hears this is what Cox said this in his statement:
#DisclosuresTribunal hears that Aidan Corkery of Mail had actually texted AOR and said "Wow, go for it" when she sought permission to go to Sgt McCabe's house. AOR's counsel suggests there was untruths in his statement. Cox says there was a conflation of matters/his understanding
#DisclosuresTribunal sees text from Corkery to AOR saying "Ok. He thinks Wilson is a bit mad though so I wouldn't be too confident." Tribunal hears that the 'he' being referred to is editor of Irish mail on Sunday Conor O'Donnell
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox says he wasn't party to this text, he doesn't know why Corkery sent it. Cox also says: As far as I know, Conor O'Donnell doesn't think John Wilson is mad
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox: I'm not Conor, I'm not Aidan and I'm not party to that text.
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox also says this in his statement:
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR counsel asking why he thought the paper could be accused of 'spreading an allegation'. Cox: Someone can take an opinion of the newspaper by even printing a story
#DisclosuresTribunal Micheal Kealey, for Cox, is now asking Cox questions. MK draws attention to how AOR's counsel referred to 'untruths' in his [Cox] statement. Kealey calls up AOR's statement.
#DisclosuresTribunal From AOR's statement:
#DisclosuresTribunal Cox says he thinks it's very clear - that he and AOR had a recollection and it's since been informed by text messages. Cox: When I made that statement last week and I believed it to be true..I didn't know Aidan was involved
#DisclosuresTribunal Tribunal is now hearing submissions about privilege
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell says he believes the tribunal has done all it can reasonably do. Says people have refused to answer questions about off the record conversations with Taylor, despite his waiver. McD says:
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell adds:
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell adds:
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell adds:
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell says: The tribunal should rule that there is no privilege at issue here in the light of the waivers of which the tribunal has been appraised...
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell: There is no need to refer these matters to the courts because it's so blindingly obvious that journalistic privilege is not involved. McD says there's no reason for the tribunal to be delay or frustrated by lengthy court proceedings.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell also had this to say about the term 'negative briefing'. [Some witness say they don't believe being told facts of Ms D allegation/investigation could be considered a neg briefing/others do believe it's a neg briefing]
#DisclosuresTribunal John Ferry BL, for Supt Taylor, said that no journalistic privilege has been identified in the tribunal. Ferry says Charleton SHOULD draw inference from journalists who are refusing to answer certain questions re: Taylor [McDowell also made this latter point]
#DisclosuresTribunal Ferry says that Supt Taylor's right to protect his reputation "trumps" the claim of journalistic privilege because, says Ferry, the journalists haven't been specific in relation to their invoking of privilege and because Taylor/Callinan/NOS waived privilege
#DisclosuresTribunal Ferry says, like McDowell, he is not asking Judge Peter Charleton to refer journalists to the High Court. But Ferry says if judge doesn't feel he can draw an inference from the refusal to answer questions, all avenues should be exhausted.
#DisclosuresTribunal Charleton asks Ferry is be putting down an each-way bet
#DisclosuresTribunal Charleton asks Ferry if he's asking him to refer any journalist - who adopts privilege but looks to have info that could assist the tribunal - to the High Court. Ferry: Yes but not as my first option. Ferry repeats he thinks judge should draw inference first
#DisclosuresTribunal Shane English, counsel for the Examiner's Daniel McConnell, Cormac O'Keeffe and Juno McEnroe, now making submission.
#DisclosuresTribunal English says the 3 journalists the privilege they claim is based on Ireland's constitution, the Europan Convention of Human Rights. Says when any source gives a journalist off-the-record briefing, the journalist is entiteld to claim journalistic privilege
#DisclosuresTribunal English says these are some of the reasons why O'Keeffe/McConnell and McEnroe are refusing to deny or confirm allegations made by Supt Taylor:
#DisclosuresTribunal English: The information that the tribunal seeks to get from the journalists I represent, it may well be relevant but the question is broader than is whether or not it is necessary..
#DisclosuresTribunal English: Journalistic privilege should only be pierced in very limited circumstances and those circumstances must show necessary reason to pierce...
#DisclosuresTribunal English: The tirbunal has direct evidence of Taylor and McCabe and has other circumstantial and tangential evidence. English says O'Keeffe/McConnell and McEnroe's evidence may be "helpful" and "desirable" but it "cannot be said it's necessary"
#DisclosuresTribunal English concludes that it's the three journalists' honestly held belief that they are invoking privilege because of the risk to their livelihoods.
#DisclosuresTribunal Tom Murphy, counsel for Mail, says English has covered all points he wishes to make so his submission will be short.
#DisclosuresTribunal Murphy says, like English, the Mail's position is not one of grandstanding. M: They hold these principles very close to their heart and have deep respect and deep regard for them. That's why they're working in journalism - the respect they give to sources
#DisclosuresTribunal Murphy says even a finding journalistic privilege doesn't apply or if any inferences are taken - that would be an interference with art 10 of ECHR…
#DisclosuresTribunal Murphy - like English - adds that he thinks the assertions of privilege, in respect of Mail journalists, unlikely to change
#DisclosuresTribuanl Counsel for An Garda Siochana: We say there is no basis on which the court could or should raise an inference from the failure to answer questions.
#DisclosuresTribunal Garda counsel points out that when it was put to IMOS's Debbie McCann - when she gave evidence - that her refusal to answer questions could be taken to imply she had been neg briefed, McCann said she "absolutely did not want that inference to be taken"
#DisclosuresTribunal Garda counsel says, starting out, tribunal said it would look for evidence & supporting evidence. He says tribunal should also consider evidence in broader terms. Says Taylor, in making his claims, is devoid of supporting evidence, no electronic/doc evidence
#DisclosuresTribunal Garda counsel also says Taylor, more importantly, has nothing by way of supporting detail - such as dates or context of his alleged conversations with journalists.
#DisclosuresTribunal Garda counsel says, six months after the tribunal set up, Taylor gave tribunal a list of 9 names, then five months later, this became 11 and, yesterday "we say extraordinarily" it became 12 (following evidence of Cathal McMahon and Mirror editor John Kierans)
#DisclosuresTribunal Garda counsel of this 12: None of them supported the claim, 8 denied his account and, of the remaining 4 - they haven't supported his account but they have claimed privilege. Of that 4, three are from Irish Examiner and the 4th is Debbie McCann
#DisclosuresTribunal Garda counsel then recounts evidence of these four. See more here:…
#DisclosuresTribunal Diarmaid McGuinness SC, for the tribunal, is outlining/summarising to Judge Charleton what he's tasked with doing...
#DisclosuresTribunal Charleton has spoken at length and confirmed he will not be referring any journalist to the High Court.
#DisclosuresTribunal Charleton has listed 20 questions (quite quickly!) to indicate his current thinking.
#DisclosuresTribunal Tribunal hears that no legal team has requested anyone to be recalled. So the tribunal has been adjourned. Judge says he'll meet with the tribunal's counsel on Monday in the Four Courts. Says if he's in a position to take submissions, that will start on Wed
#DisclosuresTribunal During his lengthy response to submissions on privilege this morning, Judge said:
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge also said this: 2/3
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge also said 3/3
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