He says this witness worked at a "Planned Parenthood type of place" he's concerned with hearsay testimony. The attorneys discuss with the judge for a bit of time, Assistant U.S. Attorney Moira Penza says some of the statements will be offered for truth while others are not.
This was all essentially in a preview for the judge to have information before the issue came up formally. Now, Penza asks for a brief sidebar. This sidebar is redacted from the transcripts. The witness who was on the stand during the last transcripts remains on the stand.
As a reminder, she is a Mexican woman from a family of 3 girls who were all involved in #NXIVM. She is now under cross examination by Agnifilo. he's asking questions about emails between the witness and Kristen Keefe. The emails are from October 2005 and mention "a friend."
The witness says she cannot recall who exactly this friend was. On the same date the witness also received an email from a friend about helping her hack email passwords. Says she sent Trojan emails to hack people including Joe O'Hara. The witness describes exactly how she did it.
Says it would take her weeks to hack an email. Also says she tried to hack Clare Bronfman's father's email server. Says she tried to hack Edgar Bronfman differently than O'Hara. Says it was less of a process because Clare was going to help with the hack.
Agnifilo asking several questions about a retail outlet named Mocha Lisa, going with her sister and brother, using public WiFi. The witness says she does not remember. Says she did use public WiFi sometimes because the IP address would not trace to her or where she was living.
Says she could do this by parking in the lot of somewhere with public WiFi and not actually going in. Says at one point she hacked her older sister's Facebook account, could not remember if she was able to hack her email. Agnifilo asks if she discussed this with Raniere.
She says yes, only over email not in person. Agnifilo asks if the witness discovered her sister was accessing Raniere's email account when she hacked her Facebook, she answers yes. Says that was not specifically what she was looking for. Now describing the output of a key logger.
Witness now describes how she would retrieve information using the key logger and other hacking techniques. Says she sent this information to Raniere via email, said she did not send info by email to him on anyone else.
Now Agnifilo asks about the witness having a relationship with a man named Ben Myers. This happened around 2006. Asks about a relationship between Myers and a woman named Megan Mumford. Witness says the two had been in a relationship.
Agnifilo asks if Myers and Mumford were dating when she started a relationship with Myers. Witness says not that she knew of or ever became aware of. Says she spoke about this with Raniere and Karen Unterreiner. Looking now at more emails between the witness and Raniere.
In the emails they discuss a party and "rosca" which is a type of baked bread that the witness says you put little figurines inside of to mean different things. Raniere asks in the email if Myers got a ring in the bread at the party. Witness says she didn't know.
Witness says she told Mumford what the things in the bread meant and told her she would want the ring. Agnifilo asks if this meant that Mumford wanted to marry Myers. Witness gets confused asks to read the whole email because she's not familiar with it.
After she reads it she explains the thimble meant being single for the next year and the ring meant you would get married. Agnifilo asks if Raniere told her it was wrong to start a relationship with Myers if he was still with Mumford she says yes.
Agnifilo describes Raniere being upset about this and at one point locking himself in the bathroom of Flintlock over it. Says he often expressed he was upset. The witness agrees with all of this. Agnifilo says Raneire asked her to "fix" the problem. She says yes.
Says this meant she was to not like Myers or fall in love with him. Agnifilo asks again about the relationship between Myers and Mumford, the witness says she didn't know they had a relationship when she started seeing Myers. Agnifilo asks about this again and brings the emails.
Witness says she's explained this already but will try to again. Says she did not think Myers and Mumford were together when she was with Myers. Says the issues discussed with Raniere were overblown and piled on her. Says she was increasingly confused and beaten down.
Says this is because she didn't feel she had done anything wrong. Agnifilo asks if she had a conversation with Unterreiner about about this. She says she doesn't remember that. Says she remembers just having these talks with Raniere.
Witness says she said things in her emails to Raniere because she didn't want to be shunned anymore. "I was trying to do whatever it took to get my life back." Says all these discussions happened before "the room." Says there were also a lot of discussions about her weight.
Says this came from fixing her "ethical breach." The breach was her kissing Myers. Agnifilo asks if it really started when she stole money, she says no. Agnifilo asks if it was talked about that she took things that didn't belong to her. She says no.
Witness says she remembers her father being angry about food, specifically when she took food from the house that wasn't hers. Agnifilo asks about the witness taking things from stores and she says she doesn't remember several times. Penza objects.
Agnifilo gives the witness a list she made of stores she said she was going to pay back. Witness asks to look at the whole sheet. Says she isn't familiar with one store on the list and says one is a city not a store. Says she doesn't remember stealing from any of the stores.
Says this was all a plan to fix her ethical breach. Documents are dated September 30, 2010. Says she wrote this while in "the room." Says she had been in there for 4 months at this point.
The plan to fix the breach included talking to everyone involved, book reports, digital archiving, filming, working $5,000 worth of time, things to do for Unterreiner, Pam Cafritz, her father, her siblings.
Agnifilo asks about a store on the list the witness already said she hadn't heard of. She says she doesn't know why the store is on the list. Says she does not know why she wrote every single entry. Says she owed someone for a bike as well.
Agnifilo now asks what talks she had with her father about staying in the room. She says these discussions were with her father, mother, Lauren Salzman, and Karen Unterreiner. Says she needed to go into the room under the terms discussed "or else."
Says she was not given a "direct path" to leave the room. Said her on ethical breach "snowballed" into more. Now talking about her decision to come into the country illegally. Agnifilo says this was her choice, she agrees. Back to talking about the room now.
Witness says she wrote to Raniere pretty much everyday. Says she did not love him but told him she did. Agnifilo shows her a letter from before the room about her possibly going to Mexico and not coming back. The letter is from January 2010.
Witness says at this point her is "very isolated." Says she has nothing, is confused, says "I'm very angry. I'm pretty broken." She says it's a complex situation of writing what she thinks Raniere wants to hear vs how she really feels.
Agnifilo asks couldn't she just have left? She says no. Says she was threatened with cutoff from her family if she left, also says she had no papers that someone took all of her things overnight.
There a small break where the judge reprimands someone in the gallery for having discussions. Says they need to leave to talk and if he sees it again they will be barred from the courtroom.
Agnifilo now showing the witness another letter she wrote to Raniere. Says she wrote a lot of things in the letter including that being in the room wasn't so bad, thought this was a way to show she was building patience. Says she remembers writing a lot while she was in the room.
Says he sense of time in the room was fuzzy and that she didn't know who else was living in the home at the time. Says she could guess but didn't know for sure. Agnifilo says she left the room from time to time she says no that's not accurate.
This is where they take a mid-morning break. They get right back into cross-examination when they return. Agnifilo asks if she was interviewed by the FBI. She says yes. Agnifilo shows her a report from the FBI.
Asks if she remembers telling the FBI she left the room on several occasions. She says she doesn't remember saying them. Now talking about another FBI report from March of this year. Says she told them things she was trying to remember but couldn't recollect completely.
Judge instructs Agnifilo to not read from documents not in evidence. Agnifilo asks the witness if she spoke to two FBI agents about leaving the room on occasion. She says yes. Says she did not take money from her father's wallet. Agnifilo asks her about this several times.
She still says she didn't do that. He moves on now, asks her about when she decided she wanted to leave the room. She says at some point she spoke to her father about it. Says eventually her father drove her to the boarder with Kristen Keefe.
She says the time after leaving the room was "very traumatic." Says she remembers wanting her father to help her. Agnifilo says he was going to give her money and buy her a bus ticket. She says no that's not accurate. Says then she went to Mexico, was still writing to Raniere.
Agnifilo has her read the whole letter to herself. She says she still didn't mean the things she was writing. She explains again that none of this is simple. "This is the product of a small lifetime of manipulation." Agnifilo shows her more emails.
In one of them she asks for her papers from Raniere. In basically every email Agnifilo shows the witness she explains they are all complicated. Says she was fired from a job and told Raniere.
Agnifilo asks why she was still reporting to him. She describes it as a continuation of years of manipulation. Now talking about a man named DJ she met while she was back in Mexico. Says she thought they were friends but there was a disagreement.
Agnifilo now asking about how the witness tried to get her legal papers again. She says she had a lawyer helping her. He says she had access to these lawyer when she was illegally in the U.S. she says that's not true.
