Thread by @BenWinslow

JUST IN: @UtahDepOfHealth reports 1,081 new cases of #COVID19. 5 new deaths. 3 new hospitalizations. 5,765 new tests administered. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

Here's info from @UtahDepOfHealth on #COVID19. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

Meanwhile, the #utleg is holding ANOTHER physically-distant hearing on @GovHerbert's emergency powers and the ongoing state of emergency due to #COVID19.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah

@GovHerbert @fox13 Fun facts: A governor cannot order an evacuation but can "recommend it."

The governor does have the power to regulate alcohol in a state of emergency. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

CLARIFICATION: 65 new hospitalizations (I typed 3 for some bizarre reason).

I'm also simultaneously covering a legislative hearing so everybody's gonna have to just cut me a little slack. #utpol #Utah

Under the law, a state of emergency can continue until the governor declares it over or 30 days (whichever comes first) with consent of the #utleg.

The #utleg may terminate it at any time by joint resolution. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Legislative analyst says there is some confusion about local emergencies, state level emergencies, etc.

BUT the governor has "force of law" power in the emergency.

His will be done. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

A governor does have the power to suspend laws (which @GovHerbert has done during the #COVID19 pandemic to help businesses, etc.)

Governors can purchase stuff under emergency declaration (as we've seen with PPEs, etc.) -- even property. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

We're basically getting a history lesson on how Governor's state of emergency powers came to be.

Rep. Brammer asks about court cases on this? Other states have found governor can't go past 30 days on a state of emergency. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Brammer takes issue with @GovHerbert using the word "extension" instead of declaring a new emergency.

@RepMarcRoberts asks when they created this statute? 1981. What drove it? There may have been pieces before, but this was the first consolidated act. #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Jill Parker of the Utah Association of Local Health Departments is now going over local health authorities.

There are 13 local health departments in Utah. Here they are. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Local health departments do NOT work under @UtahDepOfHealth but answer to their respective county leaders/health boards.

Local health departments do NOT have additional powers under an emergency. Orders must be issued "in partnership" with county leaders. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

Local health departments CAN issue orders on their own, but county leaders typically sign off (as we saw in Utah Co.)

Example? Public health restaurant closure orders.

Pandemic? They lean into a relationship with elected officials. State orders SUPERSEDE. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

For example? Counties used to plead with the state to move to different restriction levels.

Now? @UtahDepOfHealth relies on transmission index which automatically moves counties up/down. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Can the #utleg challenge an order made by a local board of health? Rep. Anderson asks.

Board of Health institutes regulations after public comment, but it can be challenged in court. Quarantine order? They have 10 days and it goes to court. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Anderson asks about the chain of authority between governor's office, @UtahDepOfHealth and local health departments?

Local health partners with state, but does not answer to them. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

BUT local health departments do answer to rules passed by the @UtahDepOfHealth.

"We're not autonomous," the committee is told.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

.@RepMarcRoberts says basically there's rules that come down from @UtahDepOfHealth, but at the end of the day, local health departments can take their own action?

Basically, YES.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

So what happens if a county health department issues an order and county leaders don't like it?

They can take the local health department to court is the supposition here.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

.@jonhawkins57 says he's concerned some local health officers are making laws that aren't accountable to any public citizenry and there's no recourse except through the courts.

But county commissions set up the boards, Parker says. They hire/fire health officers. @fox13 #utpol

Each county has a representative on the board of health.

By statute, a local Board of Health is given authority to create rules on public health. That's where we get restaurant, swimming pool, tobacco regulations, etc. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Who is responsible for dismissal of schools?

Technically, local health departments can do it. But Parker says they did it in cooperation with local school boards.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Brammer acknowledges it's been a particularly taxing year on local health departments.

He wants to talk about "broad orders" and asks if local body disregards a health officer's recommendation? Has there been buck passing?

Parker can't think of any specifics. #utpol #Utah

"There has been a lot of conversation over cover," Parker says of political backlash. "Who is taking the bullet."

Any arrests/fines related to #COVID19 rules, Rep. Brammer asks?

None, the committee is told. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

.@RepMarcRoberts says if law enforcement says they won't enforce an order, what next?

Public health CAN'T issue criminal citations. BUT they can do civil penalties for repeat offenders (which can become a Class B misdemeanor). @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

.@RepMarcRoberts asks how often can local health quarantine someone for say, Tuberculosis? They haven't had to do it yet in Davis Co., Brian Hatch says.

Notices of violations? None, but they have responded to complaints (and do education first). @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

.@phil_lyman points out a misdemeanor is a criminal violation.

Hatch says a restaurant that doesn't comply gets a notice of violation. If they don't fix it, they get a civil notice. Disregard it still? It is, by statute, a class B misdemeanor. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

Next up is @UtahDepOfHealth. Interim Dir. Rich Saunders and Dr. Joseph Miner says they'll answer #utleg questions.

Yes, they do have broad powers to "protect the health and safety" of Utahns. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Dr. Miner says #COVID19 is a pandemic. The #utleg is the one who gave them the power, he points out.

Under statute, they can issue orders. It's flexible, he says, talking about the state's many changes.

But it's not done in a vacuum, he says. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

Dr. Miner says they need to be able to take immediate action. Over time, they do welcome input.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, @UtahDepOfHealth has issued 19 public health orders. 5 are still in effect. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

.@CandicePierucci says constituents asked her if they needed "papers" to go to the grocery store, etc., under the orders?

"It depends on the public's good will to be cooperative. Actual enforcement... would be strongly unlikely," Dr. Miner says. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

The fact is, there still is the potential for a criminal violation.

@CandicePierucci says the public takes it differently than "I recommend you wash your hands."

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Andersen says a public health order doesn't require a state of emergency? Correct. Just a disease.

Statewide or community by community? Depends.

Who appeals a health order? Could be anyone, really, Dr. Miner says. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

"We've seen lots of input over the mask order. They're being seriously considered... but they are being felt to be essential to control this," Dr. Miner says.

There is no formal appeals process for the order, Saunders says. Input is taken, he says. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Andersen says so basically take input, but ultimately @UtahDepOfHealth (or the body that issues the order) is the final decision?

Saunders insists they are taking input. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Brammer says @UtahDepOfHealth's sole goal is promoting public health. By statute, no obligation to consider economic factors, etc.

Saunders disagrees and says health has emotional, mental and other components to it. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Does @UtahDepOfHealth employ economists? Yes, Dr. Miner says. In Medicaid, data programs, they have economists. So do other state agencies they work with.

What about education and learning outcomes? They have early childhood programs, etc.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Brammer presses to basically make the point that @UtahDepOfHealth solely deals with health and doesn't factor in the other components of a pandemic response (like economy, education, etc.)

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Rep. Brammer asks what the limits are under the statute? Dr. Miner says it's to protect lives and help healthcare.

Can @UtahDepOfHealth close all restaurants in the state? Yes, Saunders says.

Can they mandate vaccines? In schools, under the #utleg authority, yes. @fox13 #utpol

Rep. Brammer says he has concerns @UtahDepOfHealth could mandate a vaccine as a means of controlling a disease.

Saunders says there may be authority "but not the will."

"That's news to us," Brammer says.

@RepMarcRoberts signals THAT is where the bill is going. @fox13 #utpol

It is a good question, Saunders concedes, where is the limits of @UtahDepOfHealth's powers?

"We have to constantly be asking that," he says.

Rep. Brammer says he acknowledges line of ?ing is harsh, but they don't knows where the line is. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

"We really need to be careful on figuring out where those lines are," Rep. Brammer says.

@RepMarcRoberts says many people will be working on this issue.

Public comment now. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Gopi Krishna says @UtahDepOfHealth is subject to rule-making act and should go through the process.

Saunders tries to respond. @RepMarcRoberts reminds him that public comment is just public comment. That's it. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Brittney Moon says she has concerns @UtahDepOfHealth is performing legislative functions, executive functions and possibly judicial functions (by taking licenses) with no accountability.

She says her own Commissioner (Bill Lee) can't do anything about it. @fox13 #utpol #Utah

Moon says she'd like to see @UCHD people fired but there's a board of 9 people they have to go through.

She doesn't elect the health department.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Pamela McKinnon (who is a little difficult to hear) says she also doesn't feel represented by health departments.

She says she opposes special sessions but wants them to address this in one.

"My freedoms have been lost," she says. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Austin Abigt says the rule-making process is not being followed in these instances.

He takes issue with the ICU numbers @UtahDepOfHealth uses and says it's "hard to believe."

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

.@RepMarcRoberts asks for an explanation of rule vs. order?

Rule takes time, Dr. Miner says. Order is designed for quick action.

Emergency? It's orders that don't follow traditional rule-making process. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Do you have to be in an emergency? How do you decide an order vs. rule?

There is a necessity requirement for emergency action, Dr. Miner says.

"If you have time to make a rule, that's the better way to go," he says. @fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

.@UtahDepOfHealth does not need an emergency to issue an order, Saunders interjects.

But because things move so fast with #COVID19, orders are a tool to use (even though they don't require public input). @fox13 #utpol #Utah

So who gave them the statutory authority to do this?

The LEGISLATURE.

@fox13 #utpol #Utah #COVID19

Clapping back at the public comment about ICU, Saunders says they are using a STATEWIDE metric.

Because people are shipped to the hospitals along the Wasatch Front (who carry the load of beds).

Discussion over. @fox13 #utpol #Utah