Here's your Monday VAR thread. Not too long this week because there's not much to talk about, and one incident is related to a few others. So it's just:
- Why Mo Salah could only be given offside
- Brighton's penalty vs. Liverpool
If there's any others unrelated, do ask.
- Why Mo Salah could only be given offside
- Brighton's penalty vs. Liverpool
If there's any others unrelated, do ask.
Let's preface this by saying we all hate the marginal offside decisions. There are clear issues with overall accuracy due to a number of factors.
But FIFA says this is the system we must use. So I'm setting out how it's used.
But FIFA says this is the system we must use. So I'm setting out how it's used.
The Mo Salah offside caused a lot of misplaced anger. The whole debate is getting a little tiresome. We have been with Hawkeye offside for almost 16 months now, we know what to expect.
Offsides like Patrick Bamford deserve anger, but this was a standard marginal offside.
Offsides like Patrick Bamford deserve anger, but this was a standard marginal offside.
The "it was measured to the wrong place" argument, based on the VAR using Ben White's boot, is completely moot, and I'll explain why.
Unlike with Bamford, there was ultimately no subjectivity on player plotting for the VAR. Only the boot of each player could be used.
Unlike with Bamford, there was ultimately no subjectivity on player plotting for the VAR. Only the boot of each player could be used.
A key tool for the VAR is the automated, vertical crosshairs. These are mapped to the pitch, running goal-line to goal-line creating a virtual wall so the VAR can judge a player's position.
If you want to know how the Hawkeye system works, watch this: football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles…
If you want to know how the Hawkeye system works, watch this: football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles…
Taking this into account, the image shows:
- Black pitch line for Salah
- Yellow pitch line for White
- Blue vertical line for White
This tells the VAR that the boot stride is ahead of the shoulder. You can see there is a clear gap between the vertical line and the shoulder.
- Black pitch line for Salah
- Yellow pitch line for White
- Blue vertical line for White
This tells the VAR that the boot stride is ahead of the shoulder. You can see there is a clear gap between the vertical line and the shoulder.
Just to entertain the theory that the boot is the incorrect body point.
This doesn't mean White's whole body shifts closer to goal. The line moves back to the shoulder and makes Mane marginally more offside.
Therefore, the use of the boot makes NO difference.
This doesn't mean White's whole body shifts closer to goal. The line moves back to the shoulder and makes Mane marginally more offside.
Therefore, the use of the boot makes NO difference.
Mo Salah was marginally offside. No other decision was possible for the VAR under this system. It's no different to the Gabriel Jesus offside for Man City against Burnley.
NB: Frame selection is a different argument and covered in detail here:
NB: Frame selection is a different argument and covered in detail here:
https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1318143868462911490
There's also some utopian opinion that not using the lines would definitely fix everything.
It will require the ref to go to the monitor and look at angles as it's subjective. The referee could easily think Salah was marginally offside and fans would still rage about that.
It will require the ref to go to the monitor and look at angles as it's subjective. The referee could easily think Salah was marginally offside and fans would still rage about that.
And then, of course, the broadcasters draw the actual lines onto an offside, and indicate the wrong decision has been made based upon the basic images.
I don't think that makes anything better.
I don't think that makes anything better.
Understandably, many asked about the VAR offside for James Rodriguez.
First the VAR laid the basic line to the defender, and applied the dotted lines to check James. The VAR judged James was clearly offside at this stage and plotting to the arm of the defender was unnecessary.
First the VAR laid the basic line to the defender, and applied the dotted lines to check James. The VAR judged James was clearly offside at this stage and plotting to the arm of the defender was unnecessary.
I don't think it needed full calibration. But if you apply it to James you have to do it to the defender.
If you don't, it will obviously lead to questions, accusations that the VAR has chosen the wrong part of the body.
That wasn't the case, but the perception is of error.
If you don't, it will obviously lead to questions, accusations that the VAR has chosen the wrong part of the body.
That wasn't the case, but the perception is of error.
Onto the Brighton penalty. Just like the incidents for West Brom and Aston Villa last week, for me this shouldn't be considered a "clear and obvious" error.
But let's not think "clear and obvious" has been abandoned. Other decisions show it hasn't.
But let's not think "clear and obvious" has been abandoned. Other decisions show it hasn't.
If "clear and obvious" were no longer a thing, Adama Traore would have been given a penalty for this challenge.
(Traore was booked for diving, which can only be rescinded if the VAR advises a penalty).
And Rashford would also have got one vs. Southampton.
(Traore was booked for diving, which can only be rescinded if the VAR advises a penalty).
And Rashford would also have got one vs. Southampton.
When the monitors came in I said repeatedly that they wouldn't be a magic wand. Monitors as a tool do not remove the subjective opinion of the VAR to review an incident.
Once the review was actioned at Brighton, ref Stuart Attwell really had little choice but to give a penalty.
Once the review was actioned at Brighton, ref Stuart Attwell really had little choice but to give a penalty.
The Welbeck incident was very similar to the Mo Salah incident against West Ham - the difference being the ref gave the penalty.
But it was also similar to the Marcus Rashford penalty claim against Chelsea. That one wasn't given by the VAR.
And that's it for this week.
But it was also similar to the Marcus Rashford penalty claim against Chelsea. That one wasn't given by the VAR.
And that's it for this week.
Whole extra slice to the Monday VAR thread here on West Ham vs. Aston Villa and offside.
https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1333710559137640449?s=20
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