By now you would have seen the media storm over Goldman Sachs analysts working 100+ hours a week.
I've had the fortune (misfortune?) of being both a junior banker and a few years later, team staffer. Here's a bit of insight on why investment banking hours are so long [Thread]
I've had the fortune (misfortune?) of being both a junior banker and a few years later, team staffer. Here's a bit of insight on why investment banking hours are so long [Thread]
Investment banking is a 6 hour work day stretched across 16 - thanks to long standing inefficiencies, a rigid hierarchy and archaic elements of measuring performance.
Your "game time" when you're running hot and grinding hard is a fraction of the total time you spend on the desk
Your "game time" when you're running hot and grinding hard is a fraction of the total time you spend on the desk
Across most product areas, you're carved into origination and execution.
Senior bankers are the hunters bringing in deals (originating). Junior bankers are running point on day to day on the deals (executing)
It's two entirely different jobs across the very same client
Senior bankers are the hunters bringing in deals (originating). Junior bankers are running point on day to day on the deals (executing)
It's two entirely different jobs across the very same client
1. You're a dumb kid
Everyone starts out as a dumb kid. It takes you hours to build models, create pitch decks and you even fuck up basic meeting notes. Over time you (hopefully) get smarter, sharper and more clinical.
What takes you 12hrs in month 1, takes you 9hrs by month 6.
Everyone starts out as a dumb kid. It takes you hours to build models, create pitch decks and you even fuck up basic meeting notes. Over time you (hopefully) get smarter, sharper and more clinical.
What takes you 12hrs in month 1, takes you 9hrs by month 6.
2. Grunt work
There's a shit ton of horribly painstaking work you just have to do before you get the keys to automation. Like scraping through financial statements to "spread comps" - value comparable companies
Thinking is, you have to know how to run shit from first principles
There's a shit ton of horribly painstaking work you just have to do before you get the keys to automation. Like scraping through financial statements to "spread comps" - value comparable companies
Thinking is, you have to know how to run shit from first principles
3. Work is indivisible
If you're running point on a financial model you own every single input, every formula and every output. If you're "holding the pen" it's yours to own.
Across many tasks, more hands don't make light work in investment banking.
If you're running point on a financial model you own every single input, every formula and every output. If you're "holding the pen" it's yours to own.
Across many tasks, more hands don't make light work in investment banking.
4. Review hierarchy ruins your life
Before a pitch deck goes to the client, it's reviewed more times than a bad VAR decision. Your associate/ VP/ director/ MD all get involved in handing you "mark-ups"/ changes to incorporate.
You sit with a highlighter and process changes
Before a pitch deck goes to the client, it's reviewed more times than a bad VAR decision. Your associate/ VP/ director/ MD all get involved in handing you "mark-ups"/ changes to incorporate.
You sit with a highlighter and process changes
5. You're always waiting for comments/ people to review
Aside from the sheer number of people who add their two cents on every document - you first have to get a hold of them. Senior bankers are seeing clients and living on planes - getting their input on a deck is another job.
Aside from the sheer number of people who add their two cents on every document - you first have to get a hold of them. Senior bankers are seeing clients and living on planes - getting their input on a deck is another job.
6. You're waiting on support
Whether it's the graphic design team in London, the data team in India, the print room in Johannesburg - there's always something or someone who is holding you up from advancing the task.
You will find yourself camping in the print room at 6AM.
Whether it's the graphic design team in London, the data team in India, the print room in Johannesburg - there's always something or someone who is holding you up from advancing the task.
You will find yourself camping in the print room at 6AM.
7. Faux deadlines
This is very common. The "meeting" is supposed to happen on Wednesday, but suddenly it's on Friday. You haven't slept for 3 days.
In the world of IB, everyone treats their deliverable as urgent and important. It encourages perverse behaviour.
This is very common. The "meeting" is supposed to happen on Wednesday, but suddenly it's on Friday. You haven't slept for 3 days.
In the world of IB, everyone treats their deliverable as urgent and important. It encourages perverse behaviour.
8. Firedrills
Most of this is uncontrollable but happen often enough to ruin your sleep schedule. It's the last second proposal to submit, the deal falling apart or something that goes to shit in the markets.
As an analyst, you will be in the middle fighting fires.
Most of this is uncontrollable but happen often enough to ruin your sleep schedule. It's the last second proposal to submit, the deal falling apart or something that goes to shit in the markets.
As an analyst, you will be in the middle fighting fires.
9. Poor communication
Saying you're buried/ swamped/ hours from death isn't something junior bankers talk about. Instead it's a fucked up badge of honour "I worked 100 hours this week". "I did a 3x3" (3 consecutive 3AMs).
"pushing back" on personal time almost never happens
Saying you're buried/ swamped/ hours from death isn't something junior bankers talk about. Instead it's a fucked up badge of honour "I worked 100 hours this week". "I did a 3x3" (3 consecutive 3AMs).
"pushing back" on personal time almost never happens
10. Face time culture
The perception of you working harder because you're physically at your desk is a deep cancer within investment banking.
There's an unwritten rule an analyst should never leave the desk before their VP/ Director and be there on "standby".
The perception of you working harder because you're physically at your desk is a deep cancer within investment banking.
There's an unwritten rule an analyst should never leave the desk before their VP/ Director and be there on "standby".
11. Self inflicted poor time management
You see this with bankers who have kids/ sports events/ evening classes. They force themselves to get off the desk earlier. They work with intent.
Some juniors let the hours run away with them & end up chilling having dinner with the team
You see this with bankers who have kids/ sports events/ evening classes. They force themselves to get off the desk earlier. They work with intent.
Some juniors let the hours run away with them & end up chilling having dinner with the team
12. You're ALWAYS understaffed
You would be hard pressed to find an investment banking desk with surplus capacity. If you do - it means you should probably be reducing your headcount.
Many IB desks run very, very lean.
You would be hard pressed to find an investment banking desk with surplus capacity. If you do - it means you should probably be reducing your headcount.
Many IB desks run very, very lean.
Every desk is different. The hours in M&A/ corporate finance & capital markets desks are longer than they are in most other places of the bank. If you're in a support role (middle & back office) - you will probably sleep a full 8 hours, still eat breakfast & won't shower at work.
Every investment banker has horror stories, whether it's sleeping under desks , seeing people pass out, analysts crying while working & having breakdowns - fortunately the "rite of passage" is changing*
*Mostly because investment banks are struggling to attract the best talent.
*Mostly because investment banks are struggling to attract the best talent.
How do you fix it?
- Hard cut-offs for reviews
- Protected weekends
- Tracking hours worked
- Whiteboard sessions BEFORE creating decks
- Time off after deal phases
- Staffing time cut-offs
- Global approval for resources for weekends
- Regular efficiency committee updates
- Hard cut-offs for reviews
- Protected weekends
- Tracking hours worked
- Whiteboard sessions BEFORE creating decks
- Time off after deal phases
- Staffing time cut-offs
- Global approval for resources for weekends
- Regular efficiency committee updates
One of the banks had a "name & shame" roster. Each week you had a survey to rate the efficiency of each Managing Director. The consistently lowest rated person had to take a hit on their bonus.
Juniors performance is very rigorously rated & swapping roles made a big difference.
Juniors performance is very rigorously rated & swapping roles made a big difference.
Are there any positives?
You develop an insane, monster work ethic you carry for the rest of your life. It's relentless, you're always hungry & can outwork nearly anyone else. The relationships you forge and technical skills are incredible
It's the best place to start a career
You develop an insane, monster work ethic you carry for the rest of your life. It's relentless, you're always hungry & can outwork nearly anyone else. The relationships you forge and technical skills are incredible
It's the best place to start a career
The negatives?
It cripples your social life, your mental health takes hits, you will always be under constant pressure (even on leave) & you hate waiting*
*Because you have so little control over your time, even waiting 5min extra at a restaurant will piss you off
It cripples your social life, your mental health takes hits, you will always be under constant pressure (even on leave) & you hate waiting*
*Because you have so little control over your time, even waiting 5min extra at a restaurant will piss you off
Years ago @NanduMenon1979 suggested having a day & night shift. It sounds horrible but it can really work. Most of the time, an junior banker's work only starts around 3PM - sometimes after 6PM when they receive comments.
Having a two-shift system can fix many IB problems.
Having a two-shift system can fix many IB problems.
If you're a junior banker or trying to break in - this is the most important advice in the entire thread.
Never. Volunteer.
You should NEVER ask for more work when you have downtime. You're not impressing anyone, you're just an easy target to fuck.
Never. Volunteer.
You should NEVER ask for more work when you have downtime. You're not impressing anyone, you're just an easy target to fuck.
Additional Read #1: efinancialcareers.com/news/2014/07/b…
Additional Read #2:
bloomberg.com/news/articles/…
Additional Read #2:
bloomberg.com/news/articles/…
Shout-out for making it to the end!
Quick afterthought
- Thud effect
This is when your senior banker thinks you need to have a pitchbook that "thuds" on the client's desk
One of the most depressing things is knowing the client doesn't read it but you're out there churning profiles on European truck companies
- Thud effect
This is when your senior banker thinks you need to have a pitchbook that "thuds" on the client's desk
One of the most depressing things is knowing the client doesn't read it but you're out there churning profiles on European truck companies
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