This is a problematic thread.
It is always said study the reports and check who it is you’re taking from. Let’s put this to the test
It is always said study the reports and check who it is you’re taking from. Let’s put this to the test
https://twitter.com/seekersofh/status/1443356188180197377
Point 1:
Note the works that he cites when attempting to cite what the Salaf said about Abu Hanifah.
The brother is citing works authored for the sole purpose of “extolling” the virtues of Abu Hanifah
Note the works that he cites when attempting to cite what the Salaf said about Abu Hanifah.
The brother is citing works authored for the sole purpose of “extolling” the virtues of Abu Hanifah
Al Manaqib Lil Kurdari is a 9th century work authored by Ibn Bazzaz Al Kurdari Al Hanafi to extol the virtues of Abu Hanifah.
Al Manaqib Lil Makki is a mid-6th century work written solely to extol the virtues of Abu Hanifah by a Hanafi called Al Muwaffaq b. Ahmad Al Makki
Al Manaqib Lil Makki is a mid-6th century work written solely to extol the virtues of Abu Hanifah by a Hanafi called Al Muwaffaq b. Ahmad Al Makki
It’s important to note these books, who they were written by and when they written for obvious reasons…
Point 2:
The brother quotes 4 Aathaar from the Salaf:
2 from Abdullah b. Al Mubarak (with Sufyan Al Thawri included) & 2 from Yazid b. Haaroon
See:
The brother quotes 4 Aathaar from the Salaf:
2 from Abdullah b. Al Mubarak (with Sufyan Al Thawri included) & 2 from Yazid b. Haaroon
See:
https://twitter.com/seekersofh/status/1443356196967170051?s=21
https://twitter.com/seekersofh/status/1443356203992686593?s=21
https://twitter.com/seekersofh/status/1443356205410357248?s=21
https://twitter.com/SeekersofH/status/1443356193863479296
I will just discuss the first Athar even though I could discuss all 4 but I just want to make a point.
1. Who were these residents that Ibn Al Mubarak spoke to so that it can be seen whether their words are taken or not?
2. Nowhere in the Athar does Ibn Al Mubarak agree with what he is told. He’s just relaying what he was told by residents we don’t know anything about
2. Nowhere in the Athar does Ibn Al Mubarak agree with what he is told. He’s just relaying what he was told by residents we don’t know anything about
https://twitter.com/seekersofh/status/1443356193863479296
Apparently Miskeen brothers are to be censured for accepting judgements upon an individual passed by known men who the opposing side themselves accept as the righteous A’immah of Islam.
But they’re freely allowed to accept the judgement of “residents” who are unknown
عجيب
But they’re freely allowed to accept the judgement of “residents” who are unknown
عجيب
3. However just as they want to use an Athar to show the virtues of Abu Hanifah by relying upon Ibn Al Mubarak’s silence/lack of commentary on what he heard from the residents, the opposing side can do the exact same.
For example: Abdullah b. Ahmad relays in his Kitab al Sunnah
For example: Abdullah b. Ahmad relays in his Kitab al Sunnah
حدثني أبو الفضل الخراساني ، حدثني إبراهيم بن شماس السمرقندي ، قال قال رجل لابن المبارك ونحن عنده « إن أبا حنيفة كان مرجئا يرى السيف »
al-maktaba.org/book/33841/202
al-maktaba.org/book/33841/202
“A man said to Ibn Al Mubarak whilst we was with him “Abu Hanifa was a Murji’ who viewed the permissibility of Khurooj”
Now the opposing side can easily say:
There’s no mention of Ibn Al Mubarak censuring this individual for this comment hence he agreed with it.
Now the opposing side can easily say:
There’s no mention of Ibn Al Mubarak censuring this individual for this comment hence he agreed with it.
Oh wait, the opposing side don’t even need to say that.
The reporter who attended the gathering actually said it himself:
فلم ينكر عليه ذلك ابن المبارك
“Ibn Al Mubarak did not censure him for that [statement]”
The reporter who attended the gathering actually said it himself:
فلم ينكر عليه ذلك ابن المبارك
“Ibn Al Mubarak did not censure him for that [statement]”
Who is this reporter?
إبراهيم بن شماس السمرقندي
A Thiqah Thabt Mujahid Hero praised heavily by Ahmad b. Hanbal as a person of Sunnah. Also highly praised and venerated by Ishaq b. Raahuyah who used to encourage people to take from him.
إبراهيم بن شماس السمرقندي
A Thiqah Thabt Mujahid Hero praised heavily by Ahmad b. Hanbal as a person of Sunnah. Also highly praised and venerated by Ishaq b. Raahuyah who used to encourage people to take from him.
Who is his student?
ابو الفضل الخراساني
His name is Hatim b. Layth Al Jawhari A Thiqah Thabt Mutqin as is the norm with the teachers of Abdillah b. Ahmad (his father commanded him to only take from Thiqaat)
ابو الفضل الخراساني
His name is Hatim b. Layth Al Jawhari A Thiqah Thabt Mutqin as is the norm with the teachers of Abdillah b. Ahmad (his father commanded him to only take from Thiqaat)
So these are the individuals whose judgements the opposing side is following
Compare that to “residents” who we know nothing about.
But hey “study the chains and check who it is you’re taking from”
Compare that to “residents” who we know nothing about.
But hey “study the chains and check who it is you’re taking from”
As has been said before, the opposing side have no problems with you following what latecomers said and took Abu Hanifah as an Imam.
The problem is:
• When you spread weak and fabricated reports to the Salaf attributing to them what any منصف clearly knows they never said and in fact what’s authentic is the opposite
• When you attempt to censure those who choose to follow what the Salaf said
• When you spread weak and fabricated reports to the Salaf attributing to them what any منصف clearly knows they never said and in fact what’s authentic is the opposite
• When you attempt to censure those who choose to follow what the Salaf said
• When you flat out deny the authentic reports from the Salaf & early Ahl Al Hadith and accuse them of “jealousy” or “being liars”
And it’s a shame that those at the forefront in doing these things are those claiming to be Salafis
And it’s a shame that those at the forefront in doing these things are those claiming to be Salafis
I have conversed with a few Hanafis and they admit that yes the Salaf criticised Abu Hanifah and that this is a reality they can’t deny & that Ahlul Hadith & Ahlul Ra’y were (& are) two separate traditions.
And to those that say “why do you guys bring this up?”
Speaking for myself first, I’ve never brought this up on the TL out of my own accord/choice…
It’s always been in the context of responding to a tweet.
Speaking for myself first, I’ve never brought this up on the TL out of my own accord/choice…
It’s always been in the context of responding to a tweet.
As for the others, then why aren’t they allowed to “bring this up”?
If the opposing side have the free rein to post whatever they want on this, why isn’t the opposing side allowed to respond or post what they see as the truth?
If the opposing side have the free rein to post whatever they want on this, why isn’t the opposing side allowed to respond or post what they see as the truth?
If you don’t like what they tweet, block them…
And Allah knows best
And Allah knows best
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