Thread by @ESPortillo

And we're back for Day 3 of the #NC09 hearing, where @MarkHarrisNC9 is expected to testify.

Andy Yates, founder of Red Dome Group, is still on the stand to start. He's testifying about the skimpy background check of Dowless that he says din't turn up his felony convictions.

Catch up here: charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-…

Yates says he Googled "McCrae Dowless" and found 3 misdemeanor convictions - but didn't Google his full name, "Leslie McCrae Dowless" or do a full background check to find his felony fraud convictions. #NC09

"At the time I didn't know his first name was Leslie," Yates says.

"If witnesses are going to be asked what they think of other witness' testimony, we're going to be here until March," @MarkHarrisNC9 attorney says, in a sobering moment for reporters lined up here.

Yates is now being asked about a @ThisAmerLife story about McCrae Dowless' alleged 2016 scheme. He said he doesn't listen to @NPR much.
"None of that made its way to me," Yates says. It would have raised a red flag if he had known.

"Too many Dallases," someone said in the hearing (Dowless/Dallas confusion).
"It's not spelled the same," @DallasWoodhouse pipes up from the crowd.

The chair expects @DallasWoodhouse will be called at some point, he says. We're listening to his @ThisAmerLife interview now.

"I didn't know Mr. Woodhouse did this interview until Nov. 27," Yates says. In the interview, Dallas discusses alleged "absentee ballot mills" in Bladen County.
"They should go to jail," Woodhouse said (was talking about Bladen County Improvement PAC, I believe)

Yates says he agrees that people committing absentee ballot fraud should go to jail.

Now reviewing @MarkHarrisNC9 comments from an interview he gave to WBTV about "unusual" absentee voting patterns in Bladen and how those led him to hire Dowless.

"I got beat. Johnson beat me significantly in that county and with absentee ballots. And I remember looking at that and going 'Wow, that's unusual,'" @MarkHarrisNC9 said (Todd Johnson won 221 out of 225 Bladen Co. absentee ballots in Bladen. Dowless worked for Johnson in '16).

"Was Dr. Harris the kind of candidate who's hands-on and wants to understand the details of things?" Marc Elias asks.
"It would vary," Yates says. #NC09

Elias is now questioning Yates to establish that the "program" Dowless would implement for Harris to collect absentee ballots was the same as the program he ran in 2016 for Todd Johnson - the same program that was called into question before the 2018 election.

Yates says he didn't know Dowless workers were witnessing ballots for voters, which Harris said he knew about, in the WBTV interview.

Yates says he is surprised to learn now that @MarkHarrisNC9 never mentioned this to him. #NC09

Yates says @MarkHarrisNC9 owes his company "somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-ish thousand dollars." #NC09

"Reimbursement payment for Bladen absentee" is the expense listed from Red Dome.
"Door-to-door refers to the door-to-door program we were running" to knock on voters' doors. #NC09

"They have informed me that they plan to pay it, but not when," says Yates.

@MarkHarrisNC9 spent 5% of his total campaign budget on Dowless, attorney Marc Elias says. Yates agrees.

Dowless did not have an arrangement for a win bonus from @MarkHarrisNC9, Yates says.

That contradicts an affidavit filed by someone who said they overheard Dowless talking about getting a win bonus from Harris.

"He told me he was in regular communication with them," Yates says of Dowless' relationship with Republican members of Bladen County elections board and they were "good to get information from." (referencing public data, Yates says)

Yates says he was unaware Dowless marked absentee ballot request forms with his own initials so the board could contact Dowless (Not voter) if there was an issue.
"I would view that as inappropriate," Yates says.

“I would be concerned if I worked on a campaign and found out the other campaign was getting that information ahead of time,” Yates said. "I would find it very concerning."
"And unfair?"
"Yes."

"The last time I spoke to Dr. Harris was as we were leaving here yesterday. He said hello," Yates says.
Last substantive talk: "It was a Sunday night right after the board had voted not to certify the second time...I know it was about 11 o'clock at night."

Harris thought Dowless was "getting a bad rap" in news reports, Yates agrees.

@MarkHarrisNC9 attorneys are cross-examining Yates now, trying to establish that the 2016 hearing into Dowless' Bladen operation was not related to the Harris campaign in 2018

Harris attorney establishes Dowless took the 5th in 2016 hearing on a non-absentee ballot issue, related to campaign finance reports.
"That context gives it a little different flavor, doesn't it?" attorney says.

Harris attorney asks if absentee ballot requests were marked in 2018, as Dowless did in 2016. Yates says not to his knowledge.
Harris attorney also points out that even with marked absentee ballot request forms, the 2016 races were certified by state board.

Harris attorney is now reviewing checks from Yates to Dowless, which were made out to "McCrae Dowless" in the beginning, not "Leslie McCrae Dowless." Bolstering argument that Yates didn't know the full name to Google and find criminal background.

"Absentee by mail results can be unusual, but legal, right?" Harris attorney asks Yates.
"Yes sir," Yates says.

“If Dr. Harris had been determined to receive no absentee by mail votes in both Bladen and Robeson counties, would he still be the top vote-getter at the end of this election?” Harris attorney asked.

“Yes sir,” said Yates.

This is the core of Republican argument - that the results shouldn't be in question because there's not enough possibly tainted absentee ballots recorded. They've stuck with this line throughout hearing.

@NCSBE chair Bob Cordle says it appears there's "a whole bad situation down there" in Bladen County.

Cordle was referencing alleged ballot-harvesting by Dowless and insinuations of similar efforts by the Democratic-aligned Bladen County Improvement PAC

Mark Harris attorneys are now pointing to the Bladen County Improvement PAC and introducing reports showing they were paying people for get-out-the-vote efforts. #NC09

This hearing is getting testy for the first time, as attorneys argue over whether testimony/exhibits should be introduced to insinuate the Democratic groups in Bladen were doing similar absentee ballot harvesting efforts.

Yates testified again that because of a feud with Joshua Malcolm (former @NCSBE member) and Jens Lutz (local politico/Bladen board member), Dowless believed they were "out to get him."

And we're on a 10-minute break.

And we're back. Now discussing which TV network market Bladen is in.

Harris attorney is asking if Yates is aware McDuffie, NRCC have denied they warned Harris about Dowless' history (contradicting published news accounts).

Harris' attorney is now questioning Yates about candidates Dowless worked for in the past (some of whom were Democrats).
"McCrae Dowless pulled the wool over many people's eyes, didn't he?" att'y asks.
"Yes sir," says Yates.

"What was it like to work for Dr. Harris?"
"It was mostly a positive experience," says Yates. "He was a very likable, pleasant candidate to work for."
And Yates' cross-exam is done.

"I don't know that anyone on the campaign should have known," said Yates, when asked if there was so much smoke around Dowless someone should have suspected fire. "There may have been people in Bladen County who should have known."

Yates' testimony appears to be wrapping up, but some lingering questions remain from lawyers representing secondary candidates at this hearing, board members. Lots of repetition this morning, and parsing of details from yesterday. #NC09

"How much oversight did you have of Mr. Dowless' behavior or activities?"
"Very little," says Yates. He said his employment agreement with Harris didn't mention Dowless.

Lots more absentee ballots as percentage of votes in Bladen. #NC09

Yates said Dowless told him he was working more in Bladen and only partially covering Robeson, where he had fewer connections. So resource disparity could account for difference, Yates says - but adds he doesn't know whether to believe anything Dowless told him now.

We're getting pretty deep in the weeds now, looking at different precinct results by precinct. Lawyers for Vanessa Burton, a candidate in another state house race, is asking Yates questions now.

We're now going to see a recreation of Yates' Google search for "Mcrae Dowless" - misspelling included - to see what it turns up. Yates says he only discovered a few misdemeanors. Search shows some questions about Dowless' role in 2016 election.

"I believe I put NC in," says Yates. "I did the search a year and a half ago...I thought I had spelled the name correctly the other day."

The Search

Now @McCreadyForNC lawyer is putting up a search from courtrecords.org that Yates says he ran and only found misdemeanors for Dowless...

Asked if he was concerned Dowless was charged with assault on a female, Yates says:
"I didn't know if he'd been covicted or not...they were 20 years or more older. At this point he was an elected official in Bladen Co.," and a number of people had vouched for Dowless.

"You thought assault on a female is a misdemeanor?" Elias says.
"I assumed it was because I was told the crimes against him were minor crimes," Yates says. Says he didn't bring it up with Harris or Dowless.

The state insinuates that Dowless scammed Yates/Harris by overcharging for absentee ballot requests. Harris was got $4 per ballot request. The state says based on the actual # of requests in Robeson Co., Dowless got more like $51/ballot request.
"That would shock me," Yates.

Interesting point: A media (Believe Washington Post) portrait of Dowless shows the warning flyer @NCSBE sent to Bladen Co. voters about ballot-harvesting on Dowless' kitchen table.

Yates says Dowless never raised concerns about that flyer or issues with him.

Interesting twist: @NCSBE asks Yates if he remembers talking with John Harris, @MarkHarrisNC9 son, about concerns over Dowless.
"You don't recall him ever expressing any concerns whatsoever about McCrae Dowless?"
Yates says he does not. #NC09

John Harris works as an assistant district attorney in the Eastern District office, which was looking into voter/election fraud allegations.

And we're back. SURPRISE witness - John Harris, @MarkHarrisNC9 son, is the next witness called. #NC09

John Harris is an assistant US Attorney in the Eastern District. Being sworn in now.

John Harris says he has "gathered no information whatsoever relevant to these proceedings" in his professional capacity.
"I have no idea what has happened, will happen or might be happening with respect to any investigation that may or may not exist," he says. #NC09

John Harris says he found emails in his account that are relevant to the investigation.

"I discovered certain email communications between myself and my parents," he said, which occurred during the campaign. "I contacted my father's counsel...to let him know I had discovered certain communications."

Harris said he supported his father’s 2016 and 2018 campaigns, as a "sounding board."
"We'd exchange emails. He would forward me poll results," John Harris said. "It was essentially the primary thing going on in my parents' life."

John Harris contradicts Andy Yates - says he did raise concerns about McCrae Dowless. #NC09

"I've heard about this McCrae guy, seems to me he might be kind of a shady character," - what John Harris says he told Andy Yates in June 2017, about Dowless.

"They were going to set it up so McCrae was an independent contractor with Red Dome in the middle so there was an extra layer between McCrae and the campaign," Harris said. #NC09

"He (Yates) assured me yeah we're going to make sure he (Dowless) does what he says he's going to do," says John Harris.

On night of the 2016 primary (in which Dowless worked for one of Harris' rivals), John Harris said he noticed something was off.
"The Bladen County absentee votes seemed strange," John Harris said. #NC09

He emailed his dad that night: "The absentee by mail votes look very strange." He said they may be worth investigating.

“He told me because we had exchanged this email...that someone in his campaign staff or there with him on election night had indicated there was someone who was focused on absentee ballots for Mr. Johnson, and that’s why these results seemed so off,” said John Harris.

John Harris said he sorted the data from the election and noticed that large batches of absentee ballots in Bladen arrived on the same dates. "One would assume...there would be kind of an even distribution. What I noticed was batching of dates received," he said.

"I became concerned that someone was actively down there collecting ballots," said John Harris.
"Did you talk about those concerns with your father?"
"I did," said John Harris. #NC09

"Make sure you tell your lawyer to look into Bladen County," John Harris said he told his dad during 2016 primary election. #NC09

"The first time I really learned who it was who engaged in this behavior in 2016 was probably April 2017," John Harris says of McCrae Dowless.

Here's an email exchange between Mark Harris and his son about McCrae Dowless.

Mark Harris and son spoke April 7, after @MarkHarrisNC9 met with McCrae Dowless. Harris described Dowless "program."
"At that point I knew this gentleman McCrae was the same guy who worked for Todd Johnson in 2016," John Harris said.

John Harris says he wasn't aware of McCrae Dowless' involvement in the 2016 hearing and his testimony in that disputed election.
"I had no idea about that," says John Harris. "I didn't follow the rest of that protest process."

John Harris emailed his dad the specific provisions of NC criminal law about ballot harvesting on April 7, 2017.

John Harris says he was trying to make sure both his parents understood the details of the law.
"My mom had also been on the phone during at least part of that conversation," he said.

"After having the conversation with my dad where he filled me in on the Apr. 6 meeting with McCrae, I expressed my concerns,"John Harris says. "Namely my belief that McCrae had engaged in collecting ballots in 2016." #NC09

He told his dad collecting ballots is a felony and that he would send the applicable statute. John Harris said he also learned Dowless had a criminal conviction, though not for what.

John Harris says he was less worried about criminal aspects and more worried about the political optics of having a "shady character" like McCrae Dowless on the payroll in a close race.

John Harris emphasizes he doesn't think his dad knew about McCrae's scheme.
"I have no reason to believe that, at all," John Harris says. "I believe Mr. Dowless told them he wasn't doing any of this...I didn't believe him." #NC09

"I just didn't believe McCrae, because the numbers didn't add up," John Harris says. #NC09

More of the emails. John Harris told his dad McCrae could be "on thin ice," but if he didn't collect ballots, probably not illegal.

A pretty stunning email

"The key thing that I am fairly certain they do that is illegal is that they collect the completed absentee ballots and mail them all at once," John Harris emailed his dad on April 7, 2017. #NC09

"I felt like on the phone with them, that their mind was kind of made up," John Harris says of his parent's decision to hire Dowless.

John Harris says he was less engaged in the '18 campaign (2nd kid, demanding job):
"My parents had made a decision to go with the guy (Dowless). I wasn't continually trying to investigate this. I had other things going on," John Harris says.

John Harris is now being cross-examined. He said he was surprised that Bladen had 11 times more absentee votes than surrounding counties.
"It suggested there were far more absentee by mail votes cast in Bladen Co. than would be expected," said John Harris.

John Harris did a pretty sophisticated analysis of absentee voting results in the 2016 primary.

John Harris also noticed a disproportionate share of black voters in the Bladen County Republican 2016 primary. He was gathering information for a recount at that point, he says.

The numbers of absentee ballots were so off (in favor of Todd Johnson) that John Harris said he assumed there had to be a broken counting machine. #NC09

John Harris said when he saw absentee ballots were "batched," or delivered in big batches, he came to believe it was ballot-harvesting.
"Collecting ballots is illegal and is a felony," says John Harris.

"We may not agree on anything else, but we can all agree we get way too many hyperbolic fundraising emails," John Harris says of campaigns.

"The implication of this email in my view is Dowless knows what's going on with the Democrats because Dowless is doing the same thing," John Harris says of a message from his dad that says something to the effect of you can't BS a BSer

"He made the decision to hire McCrae Dowless before he made the decision to hire Andy Yates," John Harris says.

Note from earlier. John Harris told his dad a good way to judge McCrae Dowless before hiring him: "Good test is if you're comfortable with the full process he uses being broadcast on the news." #NC09

"McCrae told them we don't touch the ballot, we don't collect the ballot, etc., etc.," said John Harris. "Ballot collection was part of that Apr. 6 conversation and he did them he did not collect the ballots."

Then, "Why would you need to send the felony statute (to your parents) and ask all these questions?"
"No no no. They believed McCrae...I said, I don't believe McCrae...I said collecting a ballot is a felony, and I'll send you the statute," John Harris says he told parents.

"I told him in the phone call I thought they were illegally collecting ballots," John Harris says he told his dad Apr. 7. #NC09

"So you found no problem in handling 'request forms?' I am certain they have them mailed in then!" @MarkHarrisNC9 replied to his son when he was told ballot-harvesting was illegal.

John Harris said he made very clear to his dad that he wasn't giving legal advice.
"This is not legal advice," he said in the opening of his email saying he was "fairly certain" that McCrae was illegally collecting ballots.

John Harris also told his dad, "They (Dowless) are on thin ice by sending somebody out to sign and/or witness the ballot, but technically not illegal."

"It just can throw up lots of red flags. And my view, it's just way safer not to have someone go around and sign and witness a bunch of ballots," John Harris says.

"Sending someone out to sign or witness ballots systematically, that may create more problems," John Harris says.

John Harris says his parents really wanted to believe Dowless wasn't doing anything illegal.
"They want it to be true, even though you're saying it's not true?" - Elias asks.
"Yes," John Harris says.
"Are you familiar with the concept of willful blindness?"

Harris explains: "I thought what he was doing is illegal. And I was right."

"I was right, unfortunately for all of us," John Harris says.

In a follow-up email to his son, Mark Harris tried to explain away concerns about McCrae Dowless ballot-harvesting: "Mom brought up a good point...maybe they just go with the person to their personal mailbox and put it in, and raise the flag for the mailman to pick up..."

...Since the ballot is already sealed and signed over the seal, they don't hem up to my understanding, but rather encourage them to mail it that day by putting it in their mailbox and raising the flag." #NC09

And we're on a 10-minute break. @McCreadyForNC attorney says he's not close to finishing. Possible @MarkHarrisNC9 doesn't get called to testify today. If that happens, I'm not sure how we finish this week...unless Thursday/Friday we fly.

We're back. Cross-exam continues

On being told Dowless didn't keep any documentation/receipts to verify his expenses, John Harris said he told his dad "He better start doing that or you should fire him."

John Harris said he never met McCrae Dowless or knew what he looked like. "I didn't even know his last name...he was bandied about as 'McCrae.'"

"If we're going to be paying McCrae through the consultant's entity, then it wouldn't be the campaign is paying McCrae," John Harris says of why McCrae Dowless was paid through Red Dome.

John Harris says he saw the same "disproportionate" patterns of absentee ballots in 2018 primary that he saw in 2016. In 2018, his father was the one employing Dowless - and racked up 437 absentee votes in Bladen, vs. 17 for Pittenger and 2 for the 3rd candidate. #NC09

"Same problem," as in 2016, Harris said. There were 456 absentee votes cast in Bladen, a tiny county, vs. 199 in Mecklenburg, with many times more total voters.
"Am I still suspicious of what went in on that primary? Absolutely," says John Harris.

"I assumed, wrongly, they were exercising oversight to make sure he wasn't collecting ballots," John Harris says of his father's campaign in 2018.

"I raised red flags at the time the decision was made to hire Mr. Dowless," says John Harris. #NC09

John Harris says he wishes he'd asked more questions afterwards.
"I take responsibility for that," he says.
@McCreadyForNC attorney tells him he thinks did the right thing, and responsibility isn't on him.

John Harris says he looked into his own emails with his parents in December because he remembered the communications and wanted to know if they would come up in the investigation. He also says he's limited contact with his parents recently for mutual protection.

After learning the emails would be produced as evidence, John Harris said he reached out to the Board of Elections and told them he could talk and wouldn't put up a legal fight about their release.

John Harris gave his emails to the board in late January. He says he learned later that his father's campaign had not produced the emails even though his father's attorney said they would
"They were not produced as of that date..I certainly thought they had been produced."

On Dec. 3, John Harris sent his parents an email and said that since he's a DOJ party, it would be best if they didn't talk until this whole #NC09 investigation was over.

Mark Harris appears to be fighting back emotions as his son describes largely cutting off contact. They ran into each other at a holiday party, and then John Harris sat with his dad when he was hospitalized in January. Prior to all this, they talked frequently.

Once the investigation started Nov. 27, John Harris said he told his dad not to tell him what lawyers were telling him, so he didn't destroy legal privilege. By that weekend, he told his dad, "We don't need to text or talk about this any more." Cut off contact Dec. 3.

"There was no conversation like 'We got caught' or anything like that," said John Harris. He says his parents didn't think the investigation was about McCrae Dowless collecting ballots, and thought it was a "political hitjob." #NC09

"Mr. Yates said he was shocked and disturbed by the testimony. I was more just disturbed. Less shocked," John Harris says of testimony about ballot collection. #NC09

Hearing will end at 5:30 p.m. so Mark Harris can receive medical treatment related to his recent hospitalization. Will start again at 9 a.m. Thursday.

Cross-examination now.
"Your father has been in the ministry your entire life, right?" @MarkHarrisNC9 att'y asks. "He believes in the best of people, right?"
John Harris: "He will trust people, yeah."

"I believe he wanted to run for Congress because he really felt like that would be a place he could be of service," said John Harris. "I think the folks of the 9th District have selected him to go to Congress." #NC09

"You had concerns about McCrae Dowless from the start?"
"Yes...Their mind was made up, and I didn't really pursue any additional persuasive attempts," John Harris says of hiring McCrae Dowless.

John Harris says he doesn't believe his dad would have knowingly hired someone to commit crimes. Cross-exam over.

"I would have expected more control and oversight than what I have heard testified to today by Mr. Yates," John Harris said of his father's campaign and McCrae Dowless.

"I love my dad and I love my mom, OK? I certainly have no vendetta against them, no family scores to settle. I think that they made mistakes in this process," says John Harris. @MarkHarrisNC9 is crying.

"I will be frank, Mr. Chairman. Watching all of this process unfold, we have got to come up with a way to transcend our partisan politics and the exploitation of processes like this for political gain. And that goes for both parties...We can all do a lot better than this."

John Harris wrapped up. He has left the stand. @MarkHarrisNC9 is up next tomorrow at 9 a.m., the @NCSBE says.

Mark Harris has to drive back to Charlotte for IV antibiotics. He'll be back tomorrow.

"Their relationship is good. The love each other," Mark Harris lawyer says. He did not know his son would testify today. #NC09

"He's a very trusting person," @MarkHarrisNC9 attorney says of the candidate and why he would believe Dowless despite his son, John Harris' concerns.

"I think he's much too trusting," his attorney adds.

Asked whether @MarkHarrisNC9 was truthful when he said earlier that he was never warned about Dowless - now contradicted by his son's testimony - his attorney says yes, he was, and we'll see the truth tomorrow under oath.

"Now we know he was warned by his son, in quite stark terms, over phone and email," @McCreadyForNC attorney says. "there's email that shows he was warned."

"We know that what Dr. Harris has been telling us, which is that no one warned him, is patently untrue," @McCreadyForNC attorney says. #NC09