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New #thread picking up on May 13 #NXIVM trial testimony beginning after the mid-morning break. Planning to work through at least the rest of this transcript today.
This starts with Vicente saying that he has a question. The prosecution calls a sidebar to tell the judge they do not know what the question is but also they do not object to the judge having a conversation with Vicente on or off the record.
Vicente joins the side bar. Says his question is related to the last set of questions. Says there was something he omitted and remembers when he left that he thought was important. Says he wasn’t sure of procedure.
Judge says the question can be asked. Sidebar finishes. Judge advises the jury to what is going on. Vicente says the information was in relation to the SOP weekend activities. Says there were also things dubbed “BS Sessions.”
Basically, you would come with your problems and others would call you out on them saying you are actually responsible for whatever you’re complaining about. Vicente says there was also the subject of collateral in SOP as well.
Essentially this was to prove the seriousness about enrolling in the program. Says originally SOP was only men but eventually changed. Says this course with both genders was called SOP Complete.
Vicente says the first SOP Complete program was several days and included hazing that was designed by Raniere. Says there were nicknames and costumes involved. Says Clare Bronfman once had to wear a jockstrap for being bossy.
Vicente says Raniere told him this program was meant to “address a woman’s sense of entitlement.” Say Raniere said women misuse their sexuality to gain advantage in the world and that women are chronic complainers.
Vicente says SOP Complete was “horribly demeaning” to women calls it “formalized misogyny.” Says the whole program was designed by Raniere. Says there were a number of videos of the program made that were unflattering to women.
Says some woman complained about the program. Initially Vicente would bring the complaints to Raniere but from his response quickly realized this wasn’t a good idea. Says he believes now SOP Complete was meant to make women follow orders no matter what.
Says he now feels ashamed to have been part of SOP Complete. Says “I was basically enforcing this kind of really dark, hateful misogyny.” Says it goes opposite to everything he actually believes in.
Prosecution shows Vicente a photo and he identifies this as a doctor named Danielle (no last name). Also identifies a photo of Lauren Salzman. Says Lauren Salzman was his coach and they were supposed to meet once a week.
Says they worked on projects together including his lack of tribute to Raniere. Vicente mentions a conversation with Lauren Salzman where he knew she wanted to have a baby but she said Raniere told her she wasn’t ready.
Says at another point Lauren was struggling with doing something Raniere asked her to do and she said of course she loved Raniere. Vicente says in December of 2015 he began seeing many of the women becoming “rail thin” to the point of looking unhealthy.
Vicente says his greatest concern in this regard was Allison Mack. Says her weight loss was accompanied by a “tired, out-of-it look.” Says he went to Raniere about this. Raniere said he worked with different people in different ways.
Vicente said to Raniere that Mack looked broken, and Raniere’s response was that he was “trying to break her.” Vicente says he couldn’t get any clear answers from Raneire so eventually backed away from the conversation.
Says he was also concerned about India’s weight and others.Vicente says it seems all the women who were losing weight were gathered around Mack in some sort of club. Prosecution asks about Sylvie. Vicente says she was “exceedingly” skinny.
Vicente says he had to be careful about questioning Raniere, refers to it as “questioning the king.’ Says eventually he became aware that Raniere was having sexual relationships with women within the NXIVM community.
Says in 2017 Raniere told him he had conceived with Marianna. Vicente says he knew Raniere also had another child within the community. Says he believes Raniere had sexual relationships with at least 20 woman within NXIVM.
Vicente says the women were “like giddy call girls.” Says he witnessed Raniere being physically intimate with Clare Bronfman and Allison Mack. Says eventually Mack rose up through the NXIVM ranks. Vicente now talks about the creation of The Source.
Vicente says The Source had a focus on actors and later musicians and public speakers. Says Allison lived for a while with him and his wife at 7 Generals Way. Says eventually she moved to Grenadier Court (I know the address of Mack’s condo to be 127 Grenadier Court.)
Vicente says there was a conflict between Mack and his wife within The Source. Says eventually Raniere hosted arbitration between them. Says Mack was tasked with fixing it. Now talking about India.
Vicente says he would do presentations in California and India and her mother came around 2011-2012. Says India ended up being tutored by Mack and he had concerns about that. Says India ended up doing a lot of curriculum.
Vicente says he and his wife were trying to help India and shoot material for her to launch some sort of talk show. Says she had a lot of dreams. Says when she moved to Albany she “just gave everything up.” Says India said she was changing focus after a walk with Raniere.
Vicente says he confronted Raneire and that he was vague about what had happened. Says India became enamored with Mack. Says he brought these concerns to Raniere as well and he dismissed them too.
Says India became involved in a NXIVM company called Delegates that was similar to Task Rabbit. Talking now about a woman named Debra who started in the LA center then came to Albany. Now a sidebar.
Raniere’s attorney says he doesn’t know who Debra is. Prosecution tells her last name and that she was recruited to be part of DOS. Everyone is clear on not using her last name. Sidebar ends.
Judge excuses witness and jury for lunch after an objection. Prosecution says they plan to offer statements to Vicente that show how he pieced together what was happening in DOS. Says it will show the effect on his state of mind. Judge says okay but it needs to be clear to jury.
Prosecution says they also intend to introduce the first nude photographs into evidence. Says they will only be shown to jury, not to the public. Says they are pixelated but did not want this to be a surprise. They break for lunch now.
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