#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Proceedings resume before Judge Motsamai Makume in Court 8F in the South Gauteng High Court. Parmananthan "Prema" Naidoo resumes his testimony about his detention at John Vorster Square, among other places.
"The ANC operated with - and the South African Communist Party - they had cells in various parts of the country. A cell would comprise of three of four people," says Naidoo. "I really never belonged to the cell but I was known by the ANC. I was known by the Communist Party."
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Naidoo says, "My memory was nobody stopped them, nobody tried to restrain them [...] they seemed to be enjoying themselves." He says his interrogators "never" said, "Enough is enough."
#NielAggett #AggettInquest Naidoo says he was forced to drink a pink liquid while in detention. "I can't say for certain if there was a result from drinking this liquid," says Naidoo. Moments earlier he described recognising a photo of Stephan Peter Whitehead in a newspaper.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Naidoo describes seeing the district surgeon, Dr Norman Jacobson, soon after his arrest and before he was interrogated, and then consulted a different district surgeon in Vereeniging. He lodged a complaint about a buzzing in his ears.
Naidoo says of sleeping on the tenth floor of John Vorster Square, "They put some newspaper on the floor [...] lie down there. They put chairs back-to-back [...] I don't recall how many and I was allowed to lie there [...] they didn't allow me to rest for a long period."
"I know of a few people who died in detention and talking to their families all those kinds of things, we knew the way that the system worked [...] the biases of the court," says Naidoo. Despite over 70 deaths in detention, security branch members were not found liable.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Naidoo says after torture and being placed under pressure by security branch members, who interrogated him, he began to share things that security branch members did not know.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest "We were always raided [...] sometimes you were given notice to see the security police in Protea [...] I was detained coming back from Cradock [...] later they raided my home again and my son in his matric year was also detained," says Naidoo.
Counsel for two security branch members working at John Vorster Square. Advocate Stephanus Johannes Coetzee says one of his clients, Roelf Venter, has said he was involved in Naidoo's interrogation, he was involved in assaulting and insulting Naidoo, among others.
Coetzee for Venter relays his instructions, to state Venter testified at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) and was granted amnesty (as far as I can recall, amnesty was not blanket, it applied to cases where full disclosure was given). sabctrc.saha.org.za/victims/venter…
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Makume asks Naidoo if he knew Aggett. "I never knew him, I never saw him," he replies. Following other questions, Naidoo is excused. The following witness is Ismail Momoniat.
For more on conditions for amnesty during the TRC process, see the following page. "Full disclosure is required in terms of the interim Constitution and demands an inquiry into the state of mind of the person responsible for the act," it reads. justice.gov.za/trc/legal/bill…
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Momoniat takes the oath. He is the Deputy Director General of Tax and Financial Sector Policy at @TreasuryRSA. He confirms his statement's contents, as best as he can remember events some 38 years ago.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat describes his work at the University of Witwatersrand and a campaign in 1981, seeking to ensure Indian voters boycott a call to vote. "Quite a massive victory against the apartheid government at the time. Bear in mind, we lived in a very repressive state," he says.
@TreasuryRSA "Although the ANC was banned, the Freedom Charter was not banned but people were scared to own copies [...] we printed copies, went door-to-door," says Momoniat.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says they expected to be detained, security police would wait outside their meetings, but they were adamant what they were doing was lawful, even during apartheid. He describes some of his prior political positions.
@TreasuryRSA [CORRECTED] Momoniat was arrested on 20 January *1982*. He says he was staying at his parent's home in Lenasia and they received a call to ask if Momoniat was there, then the doorbell rang and they "came into the house, searched the house, confiscated things"
@TreasuryRSA On arrival at John Vorster Square, says Momoniat, he was taken to see Major Arthur Benoni Cronwright. He says two others, with the surnames Swanepoel and Venter, then joined. He describes Cronwright saying the case stemmed from Barbara Hogan's list, it had been in the press.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest Momoniat details being taken down to the cells on the second floor of John Vorster Square in 1982. He describes some of those detained in nearby cells, including Neil Aggett, Firoz Cachalia, Frank Chikane, and Eric Mntonga.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest Momoniat says detainees had very little in the cells. He says there was an office on the second floor where clothing, towels and any items detainees were allowed to keep. He says items like belts, shoelaces and watches were not allowed in the cells.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest Momoniat says he never had an item such as a scarf or kikoi in his cell. He describes receiving parcels of food from his family quite early on in his detention at John Vorster Square.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest "You were generally not allowed any books in detention but after Neil died, after Dr Aggett died, they loosened up [...] they gave me my maths stats book, which was about nine days after my detention," he says.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest During interrogation, says Momoniat, detainees were purposely allowed nothing. Momoniat, in an older statement, describes what he calls his primary interrogation. "They were pretty intense, because it was literally everyday," he begins.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest "I get detained on the 20th, then everyday thereafter I get called and taken to the tenth floor, on at least ten occasions," says Momoniat. He later adds, "This is a game of power."
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest Momoniat says, "Remember, we are not talking about illegal activities [...] generally you have a statement and because we were involved in open campaigns, in fact, in my case I say [...] all the [...] meetings we have [...] just say what we said."
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat: They come in, they beat you up, they say you're lying, even before the statement started on my first day of interrogation, I was taken into a room, there were ten or more big white men, basically smacking me, treating me like a ball, one hits you, then another hits you.
@TreasuryRSA Advocate Howard Varney SC notes that this incident (treating Momoniat like a ball) was prior to Momoniat being questioned or tabling a statement. Momoniat says he saw this as softening him up, it was cruel, adding they were clearly in a hurry and wanted to confirm certain things.
@TreasuryRSA [SUMMARISED AND NOT VERBATIM] Momoniat: It was clear to a detainee that you were totally in their hands, totally under their control, you didn't have access to your family, you didn't have access to your lawyers, it was an extremely repressive and brutal state.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest "It's a game of cat and mouse. They say write, you say what about, they smack you a bit and say you know what [...] in a sense they want you to say and if it's something they don't know about, you know, it's manna from heaven," says Momoniat.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says two individuals, Captain Theunis "Rooi Rus" Swanepoel and Lieutenant Venter, were among the men who treated him like a bouncing ball, smacking him around.
@TreasuryRSA "They were all reporting to [...] Major Cronwright and you could see, often, when they had something they would go straight to him," says Momoniat. He says once the security branch had a detainee they could do what they wanted to you, and people of colour did not have rights.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says the interrogators would play good cop bad cop and it would be hard to assess how long one had been made to stand, as detainees had no watches. He describes Venter threatening to give Momoniat electric shocks, going out to get equipment but not returning with it.
@TreasuryRSA [NOTE] From Beverley Naidoo's book, and several records from the TRC, it is very evident that the security branch used electric shocks on detainees. In a chapter on Auret van Heerden's detention, the details are especially harrowing.
@TreasuryRSA "He would basically come, maybe he would read the statement, when he came he was very aggressive from the start [...] he would even come from behind to scare me, before I know it, pick me up and manhandle me [...] they would boast what they would do to other detainees."
@TreasuryRSA "Firstly, they were boasting, because they were proud of what they did. Secondly, they wanted to intimidate you [...] looking back it was relatively light compared to what my friend Prema Naidoo went through, what Neil Aggett went through [...] in a sense I was lucky," he says.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat has named Lawrence Charles Phillip Prince and one other, whose name sounds to my ear like Descartes, as interrogators who would cite what had been done to other detainees as a form of boasting and threat. He says the latter said (boasted) he had tortured Cachalia.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says he was taken to the district surgeon on the day Aggett died. "I got taken there and I reported the assault," says Momoniat. "I told him I was was assaulted but I didn't want him to write it down [...] if you kept it general [...] it was kind of easier."
@TreasuryRSA "Once Dr Aggett died we felt we had a bit more space to push the cops. They were under pressure and they couldn't have a second body," says Momoniat.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat describes an incident on 5 March 1982 when, after he refused to turn state witness, he says an interrogator (whose name sounds to me like Descartes, still need to check the spelling) took out a penknife and ran it along Momoniat's throat to show how it could be cut.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest Momoniat's evidence resumes. He describes several days of interrogation, some led by Venter and Swanepoel, from late January into February 1982 at John Vorster Square. Varney reads from a statement claiming there was no assault, threat or complaint.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest "He's lying and he knows that he's lying in my view," says Momoniat in reply to the statement Varney read out, which stems from Venter. "Obviously, you can't complain to the person who is beating you up."
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest Varney reads from a decision from the TRC's Amnesty Committee in terms of Section 18 of the TRC enabling the Act of 1995. "It deals with the application of one Roelof Jacobus Venter," says Varney. "He made multiple applications for amnesty."
@TreasuryRSA The document addresses Venter's assault, crimen injuria and intimidation from December 1981 to June 1982 in the trial linked to Hogan. It refers to the purpose of the activities, assault being associated with a political objective, and this meeting the requirement for amnesty.
@TreasuryRSA Varney asks Momoniat for his reply, after highlighting Venter said under oath in the 1980s there were no assaults. "It seems to me he's clearly admitted he did assault us," says Momoniat. "He was committing perjury before the first inquest," says Varney.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest Varney turns to Aggett, now. "This part of the evidence will be of particular interest to this court," he says, after citing a document. Momoniat says he didn't know Aggett before Aggett was detained. "I had heard of him but I didn't know him," he says.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says, "When I got a pen and paper [...] I made a record of just what I did every day, just while my memory was fresh [...] when you're detained [...] you're in a cell, solitary confinement, you don't seen anyone except the police, people who are hostile."
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat continues, "It's very easy to lose a sense of time. You needed your brain to be active. You needed to know what day it was." He describes a system he used noting days he was taken to the tenth floor, days he read certain books and other events.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest "My first interaction [with Aggett] was, I put it to the Sunday, the 24th because I was in the cells [...] I had a brief opportunity to have a short chat with him," says Momoniat.
@TreasuryRSA #NeilAggett #AggettInquest "At some point he wasn't walking, which I'll come to," says Momoniat. He says he and Aggett were taken in for interrogation on the tenth floor the same week in late January 1982, therefore they'd see one another passing on the way to the shower, etc.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says that every hour in detention is hell. He says he discovered from his first round of detention you must have something to do, and not lose control of time, for example exercising in the cell in the morning, taking an hour to eat, obtaining a bucket to clean the cell.
@TreasuryRSA "You actually managed to have a discrete interaction with Dr Aggett [...] during your second week in detention," says Varney. Momoniat agrees. He says when a security branch member was absent he approached Aggett's cell at John Vorster Square, and introduced himself.
@TreasuryRSA "It was clear to me that he had no intention to give evidence," says Momoniat, after describing the brief conversation with Aggett. "That was the only time that I was able to talk to Neil. He looked reasonably healthy. Mentally he was well. You know, he was fine."
@TreasuryRSA [SUMMARISED] Momoniat: His cell looked pretty bare. I didn't notice anything that struck as something a detainee should have. It was bare. If there were things in the cell I would have actually been surprised. The amount of time that we spoke was very brief because we got caught.
@TreasuryRSA "It was always from a distance, he in a corridor or I'm in a shower, in a corridor," says Momoniat, noting he and Aggett did not, as far as he can recall, shower at the same time. He says, "We would take our chances with a hi, just a smile, or so."
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says that that weekend he was not interrogated but he and others noticed Aggett seemed to be missing from his cell all of that weekend, and he did not sign the meal book. "By then it was obvious that he was going now through some obvious [...] interrogation," he says.
@TreasuryRSA "You might hear someone screaming because they were beating someone up," says Momoniat. "Definitely the following week - now, the first to the fourth of February - Neil is clearly under stress [...] he was having difficulty walking at some point that week," he says.
@TreasuryRSA "Neil was in a daze, like he didn't know what was happening, almost like a zombie [...] he had a mark on his forehead [...] of course, I concluded that he had been beaten [...] he had a visible injury [...] I was struck that he didn't greet back [...] he was in another world."
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat and another detainee commented on the forehead injury and Aggett going through a tough time. The following day, Aggett was dead. Momoniat adds that they were "facing an apartheid inquest" and "you didn't have to be a genius to know they would rule against the detainee".
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat shares his observations of Aggett as near like to a zombie and clearly going through a tough time some 24 hours before Aggett's death. Momoniat then describes a method of secretly communicating with other detainees via the toilets. "It's like a telephone system."
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says the toilet system of communication was useful, and notes that without human contact one could lose one's mind in solitary confinement. "The ability to communicate with other human beings was critical," he says.
@TreasuryRSA Constable Chauke at John Vorster Square, says Momoniat, was "quite a rabid system supporter" and he described to Momoniat an instance where, says Momoniat, Chauke said Aggett struggled to talk because "we f****d him up" so badly.
@TreasuryRSA "I don't believe Neil hung himself," says Momoniat. He says once detainees were locked in their cells on 4 February 1982 the following morning the routine was disrupted, it was unusual and "clearly something was going on". He says it's possible the purported suicide was staged.
@TreasuryRSA Varney asks Momoniat if the night before Aggett's death Momoniat heard anything in the cells on the second floor. Momoniat says not, but says he was moved soon afterward. "It's literally difficult to hear almost anything [...] it's almost sealed [...] hard to hear," he adds.
@TreasuryRSA "I think that Neil Aggett, the little I know about him, was a very committed South African activist," says Momoniat. "I continue to have the highest respect for Barbara Hogan. I think Barbara is a phenomenal South African. And, yes, mistakes were made."
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat regards Aggett and Hogan as "the best of South Africans" who fought the system of apartheid. He thought was important to say that. Moments earlier he said he is pleased this inquest is happening because the first one in 1982 was a sham.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says that it was mostly white security branch members who conducted torture and interrogation. He says black security police were largely seen as wanting to please their white colleagues. "We regarded them as sellouts and agents of apartheid," says Momoniat.
@TreasuryRSA "You also careful. Are they poisoning you? Are they giving you something?" says Momoniat, in reply to a question on whether or not he was ever offered tea during interrogation. "The white security policemen [...] it was rare that they would come and fetch you from the cell."
@TreasuryRSA "It's the first time I heard, today, that Venter asked for amnesty," says Momoniat. "I've never seen him after I was released [...] I heard through this case, yes, that he's still alive," he adds.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat says that the white security branch interrogators would not be demoted for "beating you up" and, in fact, "they might have been promoted", they tried to outdo one another, while the black security branch members were in neighbouring rooms or other parts of the station.
@TreasuryRSA "You know, they always remind you of people they kill. One, they are proud of it. Two, fear [...] they joked about it generally [...] it was so widespread, that kind of talk," says Momoniat. He says his interrogators saw him as an Indian first, not a South African.
@TreasuryRSA Momoniat talks of a pervading fear, saying "you still lived in fear [...] whether you went to the district surgeon or the magistrate [...] none of those institutions were independent [...] the state and apartheid they had the right to get any and every bit of information".
@TreasuryRSA "We opposed apartheid because it was discriminatory, because it was infringing on human rights [...] because we knew it was the right thing to do," says Momoniat, in describing Cronwright declaring he had proof the 1981 Indian abstention on voting linked back to the ANC.
@TreasuryRSA Makume adjourns for lunch, with proceedings set to resume at 14:00.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Proceedings resume with Momoniat describing detainees cleaning their own cells at John Vorster Square. "You would have to ask, they would give you a bucket and some cloth," he says.
"You didn't keep any clothes in your cell, if I remember correctly," says Momoniat in reply to a question on whether or not he would have a tie in his cell. He says not. "People just wore tracksuits, generally."
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest "Generally you lived in an environment where no one could protect you [...] you were beaten up brutally," says Momoniat. "You fear for your life [...] that fear is always there when you are in detention, right from day one up until you are released."
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Counsel for Venter and one other stands. He repeats his instructions, cited earlier during Naidoo's evidence. "I am pleasantly surprised that he admitted what he did," says Momoniat, when told of Venter's admission he assaulted and insulted Momoniat.
Momoniat recalls the book in which complaints could be logged. "In theory you could complain [...] generally I don't think I bothered to complain there," says Momoniat. He says definitely on 3 or 4 February 1982 he, like Aggett, was checked out, taken upstairs for interrogation.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest "The only day I saw it [the injury on Aggett's forehead] was the last time I saw him," says Momoniat. "Having not been there [in the cells on the second floor] for the weekend, clearly he was under pressure," he adds.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Monomiat says, "I hold the security police at time responsible for his, for Aggett's death." He is refining a prior point, to make it clear that he is not talking about the current police service but the prior police force, specifically security branch.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Momoniat concludes. The next witness is Maurice Smithers. He enters the courtroom and takes to the stand.
Smithers takes an affirmation. He begins with an opening statement. "I testified back in 1982 because it was the right thing to do then," he says. He says he realises he is carrying emotional baggage he hasn't dealt with, at time he finds tears fill his eyes, his voice breaks.
Smithers says that Makume may have noticed Smithers taking pause during the in loco inspection of John Vorster Square. He says in 1982 humanity, empathy and dignity were the last things on the minds of the security police and the 1982 inquest had no interest in the three either.
"It was an inhuman, callous event without redemption," says Smithers of the 1982 inquest into Aggett's death. "So, if my tears do come and I am sure they will I won't be ashamed of them. They are an affirmation of humanity," says Smithers with a crack in his voice and a pause.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Varney asks Smithers about his current occupation. When he tabled his statement for the 1982 inquest he was a Masters of Science student at the University of the Witwatersrand. He confirms he graduated.
Smithers describes university protests in 1972, reaching Wits after ones at black universities and the University of Cape Town prompted, he says, by the temerity of Abram Onkgopotse Ramothibi Tiro to challenge Bantu eduction. He says, "That was my political blooding, I guess."
Smithers describes his travels and being recruited into the ANC underground by Jeanette Curtis and Marius Schoon in Botswana. This occurred toward the end of the 1970s, he says. He was detained in the early hours on 22 September 1981.
"I had no idea why I was being arrested, initially [...] I heard on the walkie-talkie mention by the police of Barbara Hogan's telephone number," says Smithers. He says he drew comfort from knowing he wasn't the only one who had been arrested.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Varney refers to Hogan's 'Close Comrades' list and points to mention of Smithers. Varney asks of Smithers next arrest. Earlier, Smithers said he was clandestinely involved in printing posters, such as those for trade unions.
On 24 November 1981 Smithers attended court proceedings of a peer and Warrant Officer Deetliffs called him over saying Smithers needed to go to the police station as a captain wanted to speak to him. Smithers was later arrested, he says, and held for four months.
During the four month detention, says Smithers, he was held in solitary confinement but not tortured. He says he was questioned on whether or not he had brought something back from Botswana for someone, had he not brought chocolates back for Hogan?
"I had no human contact, no real human contact," says Smithers. He says the first time he was detained he was taken through to John Vorster, whereas the second time he was held he was kept in solidarity confinement.
"I just started to feel what they call 'stir crazy' you know you just want to get out [...] I broke my glasses [...] they informed the security police who came to fetch me and took me to the doctor," says Smithers. He was taken from Randburg police cells to John Vorster Square.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers now describes being in a room with a partition. This is when he was brought to John Vorster Square to see an optometrist about his broken glasses frame. Behind the partition was Aggett, standing all the time and engaging with police.
"It was very clear to me that it was him," says Smithers of the man he saw in the room with the partition in John Vorster Square. He says Aggett had distinctive features, they moved in the same circles and he knew Aggett well enough to recognise Aggett at John Vorster Square.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest "For all the time I was there there was this intensive engagement going on," says Smithers. "It was clear to me they were interrogating him in some kind of way. It wasn't a friendly chat [...] I was worried about what happened with Neil."
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers was then taken to have his eyes tested. After the eye test he was taken back the same room at John Vorster Square and then to Randburg police cells. Aggett was still there, when he returned, and did not have a shirt on.
"Now he was being made to do a variety of exercises [...] made to run on the spot with his arms stretched out in front of him [...] with his knees lifted very high [...] he was getting very tired [...] every now and then he would go down, he would disappear from view," he says.
Smithers says the only time he heard speech was when Aggett was out of view. "Who told you to stop?" a voice would shout, he says. "Ten more. Ten." Smithers says the only reason why a political detainee would do such exercises on the tenth floor of John Vorster was as punishment.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers recalls a man striking Aggett with a rolled up newspaper or magazine. He says he saw a man adjust clothing at his waist, after which Smithers heard what sounded like something hitting human flesh. A belt?
Smithers says he was deliberately watching, trying to record in his mind what was going on so that it could be used for a legal complaint in future. "I found it so strange that I began to wonder if it was almost deliberate [...] this is also what could happen to you," he says.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers says this second witnessing of questioning by security branch members of Aggett lasted about 55 minutes to an hour. Then it stopped. He says he had reason to believe, from the way Aggett moved when it ended, that he had been naked during this.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers says he felt a huge amount of anger about what he was seeing but also felt completely helpless. "My job was to record what was happening so I could give a reasonable account of what I had seen," he says.
Smithers says on returning to Randburg he felt anger, concern for Aggett and others who forced to do the same, he was in a very disturbed state, wanted to do the exercises Aggett was been to do as a "almost perverse" means of identifying with Aggett, and getting rid of tension.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers says that he thought of plans to get word out on what he had seen. He says on 5 February 1982 he was allowed to buy a newspaper and the headline was news that Aggett had died. "I reread and reread the article a few times," he says.
Smithers says he felt he had let Aggett down. He says the article indicated that the Detainees’ Parents Support Committee (DPSC) was pressing for other political detainees to receive visitors. There was a lot of worry.
"At that stage I didn't know there had been other information about Neil being tortured [...] I rewrote the note," says Smithers. He concealed the note (whiten on paper from a bible) in the bottom of a matchbox with a false bottom to make it seem innocuous, to conceal the note.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers was able to give the matchbox with the note to his sister during a visit. He says that visit was very emotional and as she left she said, "Please be careful. You're my only brother." He says it added to the emotional turmoil at the time.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest The note from Smithers hidden in a matchbox was discovered by his sister and her husband, and they gave it to Helen Suzman, who read it out in Parliament. Smithers discovered it was read, when he managed to obtain a newspaper reporting Suzman read it.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers reads the note into the record.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest During the 1982 inquest, Smithers was mocked or criticised by security branch police counsel for spelling his name two different ways (either as Maurice or Morice) and for taking the oath in a non-religious way when he appeared in court for the inquest.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Smithers says he is very happy for opportunity to speak and "we will hopefully find out what the truth is because it was a very devastating experience for everybody" and there needs to be proper closure around it, so there is a sense of the truth.
#NeilAggett #AggettInquest Makume asks Smithers to please return tomorrow. Court adjourns.
