Thread by @shayshinecastle

There is a really loud sound in the audience between a twittering bird and a siren.

"Is this like performance theatre?" Jones asks after audience members joke that it's Verizon messing with things.

Brautigam says it's a sensor in the HVAC system; facilities dept has been called.
We're pressing on, cuz why not?

How does that sound at home, folks?

112 wireless communication facilities have been permitted in Boulder since 2000; likely more in the city, but that's the best dataset.

Each permit may include more than one antenna.

City regulations mean they have to be incorporated as part of the building; there are a few (or two; not sure what was said) that are just straight-up towers.

"Usually it's the taller buildings that will have the facilities on them," Edward Stafford says. Development review manager with CoB.

Older ones are called large cell; newer technology is called small cell. They primarily cover 1-2 blocks. "We're seeing a considerable move toward this." Needed in denser populated areas, with more demand on networks.

Two small cell facilities in Boulder. 47 additional locations are in review.

Carlisle asks for a definition of data.

Says that small cell technology and 5G is primarily to transmit ads and video.
"It certainly better supports video," Stafford says, but it's about the "ever-increasing use" of data for apps, etc. Pretty much everything you do with your phone.

Jones asks for an explanation of difference between 4G and 5G.
It's using a different part of the spectrum, Stafford says. (I chatted with someone yesterday who said a similar thing. It uses shorter wavelengths, millimeter waves, versus microwaves.)

I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense or needs more explanation. I'm but a simple journalist.

Weaver with the explanation: 5G is a much higher bandwidth. It's significantly faster; to get that higher bandwidth, they're using a different part of the spectrum. It's higher speed.

One of the concerns is you might get more radiation, he says.

The 2 approved small cells are for 4G, but whatever gets approved as 4G could be transitioned to 5G. Depends on what physical changes they need to make. If none, then no review process is needed.

South Boulder Rec Center is proposed as a large cell site. Going to be 4G, if lease is approved. That could still support 5G.

There is not a cell site on the South Boulder Rec Center at this time.

This is fun, like watching my grandparents try to understand Facebook.

(Though, to be fair, my own understanding of this technology is somewhat limited is well.)

The audience is very restless during this discussion, muttering, sharing looks and reacting to everything that is said.

Morzel asks why we would want "4G, 5G, all that" when we're doing a fiber network.
Stafford: Your cell phone doesn't plug into fiber.

Small cells sites also on CU, outside of Boulder's regulatory authority.

Several pieces of legislation limit what Boulder can do: Telecomm Act of 1996 says that local gov't can't consider "emissions from transmission of radio frequency" when it comes to approval of these facilities. That means health and safety can't be a factor in decision.

BUT it does say that aesthetics and other factors can be used in regulations.

In 2017, Colorado passed HB17-1193 which means that local gov't can't prohibit small cell poles in the right-of-way. Also sets limits for the review process timeline, and can't charge for the use of right-of-way beyond the actual costs.

"That was certainly a somewhat interesting act to come across," Stafford says.
"It started as something worse for local governments," and in other states law says you have to allow it, but you have to pay for upgrades as a city.

Some FCC regulations that also limit what Boulder can do are being challenged in court.

Weaver points out that city only has to lease in right-of-way, not all city property.

Carr: "No restriction on what you can do as the owner of the building."

An audience member asks Carr to speak into the mic. He given them some sass; people shake their heads in disbelief.

Verizon and the city have been working on this lease since 2016.
Brian Beary, with parks and rec, notes that city already leases space at Fire Station 5 to AT&T and Valmont Butte to Verizon, AT&T and Sprint.

"This lease is opportunistic, not part of larger city strategy," Beary says. It generates money for parks & rec and will hopefully improve coverage for Boulder.

No public comments at the Parks & Rec Advisory Board on this issue when it came up in January and February.

Lease will generate $30K annually for the city.

Q from Nagle: Either we can do this and get $30K in revenue, or we vote no and they go to our right-of-way and get no money?
That's possible, staff says.

Q from Carlisle: Doesn't legislation say if you provide space for one carrier, you have to give it to others?
Brockett clarifies: Bc we are the property owner, we have more leeway.
Stafford: That's true. We can do more (or less, rather) than we are allowed to in right-of-way

Jones: Verizon can share, right?
Brockett: It's voluntary for them, but we wouldn't have to allow a carrier to mount equipment next to them.

Stafford: Poles in right-of-way are generally bigger than power poles. Carriers can then build underground. They have to pay the installation costs, but we can't charge money for that.

Verizon officials coming up now. Ann Clauser (not sure to that spelling; her name isn't anywhere that I see.)

Maybe Ann Closser? linkedin.com/in/ann-closser…

"Whole group of people" from Verizon here. Ann is ceding to someone else at the company: Kerry Gagnin(?) in-house counsel with Verizon.

Got that one way wrong, I think. Carey Gagnon, it looks like.

"It is orders of magnitude" more expensive to build a facility on the top of a building than it is a small cell pole. Declines to say how much it costs; private company, private info.

Carlisle asks about radiation.
Gagnong: Whether it's 4G or 5G, it's regulated by the FCC.
Audience scoffs skeptically.

Some dude whose name I missed is answering Carlisle's q about radiation.
Dif between 4G and 5G, it's a different frequency spectrum we're looking to deploy. No plans in Boulder yet, but it's a much higher frequency.

Only goes 600 ft, roughly, depends on building cluster, landscape, trees, etc.

"We see a hockey stick in growth" in terms of data use in recent years. Users streaming high-def video; some ppl use it to replace internet at home. Sites are "over-saturated" to where 4G signal is "almost unusable."

For rooftop sites, third party vendor has to do an analysis of the radiation emissions. Test it at full capacity, like during the Super Bowl or an emergency event. "We go by worst case scenario on that situation."

"We are required to do third-party study within 30 days after we turn the site on air, to have the site simulated at full capacity to make sure we're within FCC guidelines."

Carlisle says there are concerns about how safe FCC guidelines are: audience breaks into applause. "Excuse me," says Jones.

"They constantly revisit" the regulations, along with the American Cancer Society. "If they do find something, they will regulate us to make sure we're in compliance."

Did anyone at home catch this guy's name?

Council is considering a study session on this.

Silent applause from the audience.

Jones: Can we put in the lease that this isn't 5G?
No.

Verizon can't agree to not doing 5G, but will do in the lease that any changes will have to come back to council.

Yates wants to amend lease to allow AT&T to co-locate with the FirstNet network they are deploying for first responders (basically a separate lane for emergency services so they don't run into overcapacity issues with data during crises)

Q from Brockett: Would radiation levels be close to FCC limit, substantially under?
Best way to describe it is that we can have them test at the lower levels to see where we are in regards to the FCC limits. In CO, we find that generally the concern is for workers on the roofs.

Would shut down the site whenenver there was work needed on the site. My understanding that even at ground level, tend to be less than 1% of FCC limits. but we can have that verified.

Q from Brockett: What is your backup plan?
Verizon looked at numerous sites. I've personally looked at 3-4, but we can't make it work. I haven't considered right of way in this area yet. If this happens, maybe we reevaluate.

Brockett: So somewhere between lower levels of service and right of way?
Yes.

Another q on co-location with another carrier: City can say no, but Verizon can't.

Public hearing: 18. Not too shabby.

Christel Markevich is talking about child labor for some reason.

Ah, she's saying that corporations are exploiting children by getting them addicted to their devices, and that technology impacts fertility, increases risks of cancer.

"These impacts are already notable in our society. Are we willing to sacrifice even more the health of our children in the race for ... technology? I say no."

Richard Lear is talking about all the diseases that have increased, according to him, because of WiFi and cellphone technology.

"Wireless is directly connected with biological underpinnings of 36 diseases."

Audience claps. Another reprimand from Jones.

He's still talking. GET OUTTA HERE.

You is back!

You is loud. You is passionate.

Wireless technologies make ppl tired, irritable and angry, You says.
Well, that explains a lot.

You wants a study session. "You can hear from some real good experts."

Brian Lorenz, a physics student from CU, is hear to speak on the harmful effects of this technology.

I'm not going to understand a thing he says, but here goes: "Cell phones and WiFi routers operate at the same frequency as microwave. You can consider a cell phone antenna a microwave on power level 1 and 2. Do you want to live in that?"

Beth Robinson: People seeking better health don't deserve to be damaged.

Evan Ravitz: We're allowed to regulate based on aesthetics. So why don't you say these boxes have to be invisible?

Yay for Deepika Avanti, the first speaker to come in under time!

Someone just emailed me to note that many of the speakers are reading from their cellphones.

Amber Hess noting the exemptions for fire stations in California from cellular equipment. If we exempt them, what does that say about the dangers?

Good time to note that not a single public speaker has been in favor of this lease so far. We're up to No. 12, I think?

Jones said "anal" trying to pronounce someone's name, and if you're guessing that I giggled, you're damn right I did.

It's pronounced Aneel: Anyll Markevich.

"I personally find health of my brain and body more important than my toaster being able to tell my fridge it's toasting bread."
LOL Anyll

Heather Lund also in under time. You go, Heather.

Alex Markevich: Deny the lease. I realize some of your powers are limited. Do everything to slow down the addition of cell technology in Boulder....

.... Science has become a tool wielded by various interests. Careful not to rely too carefully on what you can prove or not prove by science. Essentially, today, one can buy scientific results.

Markevich can "feel" the WiFi in the room.

Holly Wheeler compares the issue to fracking.

Carolyn Bninski addressing the "preemption" of local laws by the state and feds.

"This isn't just about 5G, it's about 4G, 3G, 2G. We're the proverbial frogs in the water over the last 20 years. We can't trust the FCC just like we can't trust the COGCC or the FDA."

"There's enough concern to want to know more," Councilman Weaver says.

(Public comment is over, btw. 19 speakers)

"Our decision tonight is about 4G at South Boulder Rec Center," Weaver says. 5G "is not here yet, it's not ready to be rolled out." Wants lease to require that 5G won't go there.

Morzel: I'm not an expert on this, but "it's clear that there's a lot of materials that are out there. I personally can't move forward tonight on approving anything until I have time to read this material. I need to know a lot more before I say yay or nay."

"I do know never to put this up to my head," she says (her cell phone)

Brockett: I absolutely want us to have as much local control as possible. But what's in front of us is a lease for more previous generation of cell equipment, the same kind we have 112 of in the city.

Echoes Weaver's request that a lease be moved forward that includes a stipulation that council sign off on any upgrade to 5G.

Young: I thought Nagle made a good point that if we don't allow these lease to go through, they'll use the right of way and put in 5G without consulting. This will at least give us a head's up that something is happening.

Suggests that Boulder consider "a strategy on telecom leases" a la Portland.
Yates: "Controlling our destiny is better than not controlling it."

Carlisle: What's to stop Verizon from doing this *and* doing something in the right-of-way?

Verizon will agree to no 5G technology, Closser says.

Young: Let's have a study session on 5G bc "honestly, I'm not going to go back and read all the stuff we got unless I have to for a study session."

Young is moving that the lease be approved, but adding an amendment that ANY change will require a trip back to council. Yates seconds.

Carlisle is reading a letter council sent to Joe Neguse opposing state/fed laws that preempt local control and Boulder's ability to "protect health and safety."

"Tell me how this is different." She says.

Jones: "It's about 5G."
Carlisle: "It is not just 5G. It doesn't make sense to me that we would move forward with this lease. It's a contradiction."

"I think it's irresponsible to go ahead with this at this time."

Nagle: "We have the audience out here agreeing with Cindy; I agree with Cindy (Carlisle). I'd like to approve it bc I'd like to get the $30K and have control over 5G. What are we supposed to do?"

Audience starts shouting out stuff. Jones quiets them.

Weaver: I think we should just vote.

Vote: 6 in favor, Morzel and Carlisle opposed. Lease approved.

Hey @threadreaderapp please unroll. Thank you!

OK, one more: The audience has left, but is still shouting from downstairs about the vote. The cop just left the chambers to go check it out.