Thread by @MysticScholar

1) The author has a point here, but is also fundamentally mistaken IMHO on "#genocide." What follows is a somewhat extensive thread:
tinyurl.com/5f738ch7

2) The term, "genocide," is specific and refers to the mass murder of a particular group of people with the goal of erasing them from existence. "Genocide" and mass murder are not the same, and that distinction means something.

3) But how is what's going on genocide if the Russians are killing Russian speakers, as well as Ukrainian speakers. Isn't that mass murder generally rather than genocide specifically, as in the Shoah?

4) At this point, it's difficult to argue that what we have is "genocide", given the mass murder of both Ukrainian and Russian speakers. Terms do matter, and we ought to be as precise as possible.

5) That said, if the Russians focus on continuing to kill as many Ukrainians as possible with the goal of eliminating Ukrainian culture, language, autonomy, democracy, and civic life, that arguably would be a form of "genocide."

6) It involves attempting to eradicate a "nation," which is in fact part of the definition of "genocide." For example, see the U.S. Holocaust Museum definition, which includes "nation."

7) Jews are a "nation" or a "people," and so the Nazi Final Solution was an attempt to eradicate a group, which would be the very same as what Putin and the Russians might be seeking to do, as the hideous process unfolds.

8) To argue that #Ukraine/Ukrainians have more of a choice than Jews did is true to some extent, but it's not relevant to the terminology of "genocide."

9) If the Russians decide to eradicate a people (Ukrainians), that's "genocide," no matter what choice the Ukrainians might have once had. Once one group embarks on a mass slaughter of another group, they're in "genocide" territory.

10) Not all "genocides" are the same and have the same circumstances, but they're still "genocides."

11) Further, what kind of a choice is it to say that one will enslave or humiliate the other in exchange for allowing them to live? That's not merely "not a good choice," but it's a choice so horrible and unacceptable that it's reasonable for Ukrainians to reject it.

12) That doesn't make the resultant mass murder not "genocide."

13) Finally the Ukrainians in the WWII period and earlier were notorious for their hatred of Jews, their participations in murders, and the large number of them serving as concentration camp guards throughout Eastern Europe.

14) That was over 75 years ago, however. Ukrainians now have a Jewish president&a a vibrant Jewish life. Sure, there's antisemitism there, but it's no longer the world of the 1930s&940s (or earlier). It's a diverse society that is fundamentally tolerant and open.

15) I'm Jewish and have spent my life reflecting on the Shoah and my own relatives' murders (though that isn't particularly unique in the Jewish community).

16) I was trained as an historian--an historian of religion, with one focus on history of relation between Jews-Christians (esp. ancient period). But, at some point, we all have to step away from the past, live in the present, and accept that the world changes, people change.

17) Ukrainians are not some monolithic group of Ivan the Terribles at Treblinka any more, and we need to embrace them as they are--not live in the frozen images and memories of a painful, horrible past.

18) And, yes, it's still painful&shattering for me&for many Jews, but we need to live in the present and move forward. If the Shoah is to teach us anything, it's that we can serve as witnesses to horror and defend those not in a position to be able full to defend themselves.

Hashtags for this thread: #genocide #Ukraine #PutinsWar #UkraineInvasion #massmurder #JewishTelegraphicAgency #Zelensky #shoah #holocaust

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