Thread by @enn_nafnlaus

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Why do people always do this - just grabbing pictures of any old mine and then calling it a "lithium mine"?

I just went and checked the first image on the list. Those bright colours screamed "copper mine" to me. Doing a reverse image search, here's the oldest pic on the net:

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez That's from an old slide from IBC Advanced Technologies. What do you know - a copper mine. For some reason, people seem particularly fond of mislabeling copper mines as lithium mines - again, I guess they like the colours?

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Here's the primary source of lithium - salars. You have brine underneath a salt crust. Brine is pumped to the surface to sun-dry. As it concentrates, most non-lithium cations precipitate out, leaving a lithium concentrate.

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez The secondary source of lithium is spodumene, which is mined from igneous rocks - so it actually *is* hard-rock mining. But even ignoring the appearance, that scale was too large. Here's the largest spodumene mine *on Earth*, the Greenbrushes mine in Australia:

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez An emerging source also appears to be lithium clays. Here's the planned site of one in the US. The actual mining process is right as it says on the tin - digging up clay, processing it (there's a number of emerging processes), and putting it back.

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Meanwhile, there's a boundless source of lithium in the world's oceans - sea salt is 5ppm lithium. However, as salar lithium, spodumene, and clays are cheaper, it is not in commercial utilization at this time. Production prices are, however, quite viable for EVs.

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Want some irony? I checked your second picture. Want to know what it actually is? It's the Athabasca oil sands! Photo: Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty Images. That's a photograph of *oil production*, not lithium production!

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Your last picture is this Shutterstock image, titled "ore conveyor in open pit mining" - shutterstock.com/image-photo/or… - it's tagged "silver" and "gold mine". Such precious metals mines are used to produce the platinum for ICE vehicle catalytic converters.

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Only your third picture is actually of a lithium mine - spodumene (e.g. the secondary source). Click the image - it's not that big of a mine, despite being the largest spodumene mine on Earth (Greenbrushes).

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Now, ask yourself, "Why does this keep happening?" Why do people keep putting together random images and calling them "lithium mines"? Why do people like you keep sharing them?

It's because it fits your preconceived narrative - EVs must be bad, so lithium must be bad.

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez The reality is that salar mining is one of the least environmentally-destructive mining processes on Earth, while spodumene is pretty tame as far as hard-rock mining goes. And despite the name, li-ion batteries just don't use that much lithium - they're mainly nickel-graphite.

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez I know you probably won't pivot to protesting graphite because you'd have to give up on pencils, but you should probably know that EV batteries hardly even show up on a graph of global nickel usage. Nickel is mainly used as an alloying agent, particularly in stainless steel.

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez Including in parts used to make up internal combustion vehicles. So unless you've been out there recycling all your stainless steel cutlery to "save the world" from nickel production, that may not be an avenue you might want to pivot to ;)

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez The reality is that everything we consume has an environmental cost; there's nothing special about batteries in this regard. Even steel has a huge environmental cost - you don't want to see what China's illicit steel mills look like. Yet for some reason, there's this game...

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez ... that people play where they like to pretend that only materials that go into EV batteries matter, like all other things we use were zapped into existence by magical faeries.

And even with the environmental costs of *making* vehicles, peer-review consistently shows that...

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez ... far worse is the environmental cost of *operating* them. A typical ICE vehicle on average consumes its entire weight in fuel, every year, up into our breathing air, for two decades. Want to see what *that* looks like? google.is/search?tbm=isc…

@fvo69622073 @AukeHoekstra @JoeriThijs @M_Steinbuch @mzjacobson @Sustainable2050 @marjanminnesma @ChristianOnRE @ProfRayWills @evbox @GeertKloppenbu1 @ramez In short, please don't take part in this "grab random pictures and call them lithium mines because you hate EVs" game. It's silly, and transparent.