venue check: albemarle county 
hard to say who wants to be here less, me or robert tracci
surprisingly big turnout tonight for this forum with albemarle county commonwealth’s attorney candidates jim hingeley and robert tracci. lane auditorium is maybe 3/4 full!
“there will be no cheering, jeering, or other disruptive behavior tonight,” says the moderator from the league of women voters. she says if disruptions occur & persist, they’ll turn off the lights, clear the room, and the event will be over.
the league of women voters is explicitly a nonpartisan organization. the moderator said audience submitted questions are being reviewed by a member of the league... and a representative from the county republican party 🤔
“i’m gonna probably be a little more cranky than the moderators for the democratic debates... i’m gonna make you stop,” says the moderator - she won’t be tolerating anyone speaking past their allotted time.
hingeley starts off with a little shade... saying “we’ve had four previous debates IN albemarle county” and calls tracci’s behavior in the last 24 hours trump-like, fear-mongering, divisive, and dishonest.
“he said yesterday he preferred a venue in albemarle county out of respect for albemarle voters,” but tracci’s own campaign suggested this location
“it was designed to create a media circus and it did,” hingeley says of tracci’s backing out and opting back in to the debate.
hingeley calls tracci’s term in office a continuation of “the failed tough on crime, lock them up” policies of the 1980s.
tracci now claims he had concerns about this venue going back weeks & that he’s glad the police are here. what the fuck is wrong with this guy.
tracci says his values are from his parents, first generation americans who imparted in him an understanding of the goodness of this country.
“having a functional legal system to protect public safety” is “absolutely essential.
“having a functional legal system to protect public safety” is “absolutely essential.
“i am a law enforcement official” not a partisan political activist, tracci says.
“i’ve never lost sight of my obligation to speak with law enforcement” on behalf of victims (???)
“i’ve never lost sight of my obligation to speak with law enforcement” on behalf of victims (???)
“the political questions in our office are made not by our attorneys but by the general assembly” tracci says.
“i don’t know what political advice he’s receiving, but it’s not good,” tracci says of his opponents willingness to directly speak about him.
“i don’t know what political advice he’s receiving, but it’s not good,” tracci says of his opponents willingness to directly speak about him.
first Q: how much discretion do you believe rests with the CA, what limits do you see, how far do you think it should go?
hingeley: this is a fundament disagreement between us. tracci has been inconsistent about his beliefs here, citing a response from tracci at the earlysville forum
hingeley is talking now about how tracci prosecuted the case for one of last year’s arrestees at a county school board meeting. my friend who went to the hospital instead of jail that night because he was assaulted by a cop was originally charged with a felony.
tracci eventually dropped that man’s charges from felony to misdemeanor, which hingeley points out was a use of prosecutorial discretion. he also makes another jab at tracci about the venue — that arrests occurred in this building.
tracci is such a boring nerd. he’s reading a section of the state code and now holding it up and shaking it at the audience.
oh my god tracci is trying to litigate the venue thing - this building is jurisdictionally both in the city and the county and is technically within the city.
tracci’s vicious hostility toward the residents of the city of charlottesville is bizarre... yes they are separate municipalities but in day to day life, that boundary is meaningless.
someone please explain what embezzlement is to the prosecutor. he keeps using this analogy.
“i’m not smearing charlottesville,” tracci says. “i don’t abhor or have anything against people in the city of charlottesville” but he doesn’t support people who “use the first amendment as an invitation to chaos”
Q: under what circumstances would you support alternative sentencing for mothers with children?
tracci starts his response by talking about the therapeutic mental health docket (which serves an incredibly small number of people and isn’t an answer to this question)
tracci says there are options like humanitarian release and medical release “but we can’t disregard the law” to serve a political agenda (is keeping kids out of the foster system a political agenda?)
the only disruption so far tonight has been robert tracci interrupting his opponent.
hingeley says the therapeutic docket is a good program... but it has served only twelve people in the last year. that isn’t a sufficient response to a question about alternative sentencing.
“he keeps going back to this formulation of ‘you can’t disregard the law.’ i don’t get it,” hingeley says. he sees his own philosophy as actually regarding the law & the the individual and the circumstances and doing what makes sense.
“we need to have creative thinking going on in the prosecutor’s office about keeping people in the community,” hingeley says. “there is a world of opportunities we are missing under mr tracci’s leadership.”
“it sounds like my opponent is running for his old job,” tracci says (hingeley used to run the public defenders office) “i speak for victims of crime, without apology.”
the moderator chastises them both for failing to address the substance of the question, which was specifically about alternative sentencing for mothers with children who rely on them.
next Q: should a juvenile be tried as an adult?
hingeley: the law has criteria that have to be met but the prosecutor has discretion. the question is less about the statute and more about the prosecutor’s philosophy
hingeley: the law has criteria that have to be met but the prosecutor has discretion. the question is less about the statute and more about the prosecutor’s philosophy
hingeley: recent research on brain development says even as late as 25, an individual’s brain development may not be complete. “we should use the option of transferring juveniles to adult court only as a last resort.”
tracci: “there is a lot in that statement that i agree with” and says he has only sparingly transferred juveniles to adult court, saying the last time he did so was a 17 year old MS13 member who attacked someone in the school cafeteria.
tracci says the idea that brain development extends into the 20s is brand new to him, and seems to sneer a little at the idea (the crowd is angry at this) - this is pretty common knowledge & there’s a lot of case law about this???
someone should email tracci the sentencing memo from james fields’ federal defense attorney - it addressed this matter extensively.
on to audience Qs, the first one asks them if they will gather & make available data about charging, pleas, and dispositions with information about race of defendants.
tracci answers this question not at all. he says the thomas jefferson regional planning district collects some data on this and then describes all the kinds of crime that are on the rise.
tracci is interrupting his opponent again. the only person causing any disruptions here tonight is the guy who wouldn’t come unless everybody promised there would be no disruptions.
hingeley says tracci didn’t answer the question. the question was about what happens in the prosecutor’s office. the data the question asks about IS NOT currently kept. collecting & sharing that data is a campaign promise from hingeley.
hingeley: we want to fight racism in this community. we have to gather this data so we can show what is actually going on. “we all have the best of intentions but the best of intentions do not always work out” to undo systemic racism.
Q: are you in favor of broader pre-trial discovery?
hingeley: there’s no law in VA that a defendant gets to see what’s in the prosecutor’s file. you get much less discovery as a criminal defendant the you do in a civil lawsuit.
hingeley: “this is a matter that comes within the prosecutor’s discretion” but he would “certainly want to have the greatest possible amount of discovery.” “we don’t want to have trial by ambush.”
tracci: “there’s a lot in that statement i agree with,” and says there are cases where they’ve allowed this but it isn’t a matter of course. he says it would be logistically too difficult.
tracci says new rules are forthcoming to formalize his office’s discovery process. “it should be undertaken on a way that’s consistent” and should be reciprocal.
tracci says open file access is important “when it’s appropriate” 🤔
next question is about pretrial cash bail. tracci says as a matter of course they do not seek pretrial cash bail for misdemeanors. “the data is coming in” and it tends to disfavor cash bail.
tracci: “but it’s also important to recognize” there are unintended consequences to ending cash bail - he cites an article about burdensome pretrial supervision. “there needs to be incremental change.”
hingeley: putting money up does nothing to accomplish public safety ends it claims to & burdens the poor. having money doesn’t make you less of a risk to the community.
hingeley says he doesn’t understand tracci’s argument that ending cash bail results in infringement of people’s rights via pretrial supervision... being in jail is much more likely to infringe on someone’s rights.
despite having been told there won’t be rebuttals on audience questions, tracci asks if he can rebut. the moderator is polite but firm: no.
next Q: do you favor a police civilian review board for the county?
hingeley: as we watch the process unfold of the formation of the city’s CRB, we should look to that as an example. not prepared at this point to weigh in on whether the county should emulate that.
hingeley: as we watch the process unfold of the formation of the city’s CRB, we should look to that as an example. not prepared at this point to weigh in on whether the county should emulate that.
hingeley: “i do want to say that i favor community oversight” of both the police and the prosecutor’s office. he plans to establish a community oversight committee for his own office to review data & communicate with the broader community.
tracci: “no i don’t.” tracci says plainly about whether he supports a CRB. he says hingeley’s proposed community oversight board is “kind of a backdoor” to a CRB. he says the CA’s office should NOT be “a vehicle for community change,” that is “not the role of law enforcement.”
“there ought to be some level of insulation,” between the public and the prosecutor’s office, tracci says. having people looking over his decisions “doesn’t seem like a prudent idea.”
Q: what is the most important function of the office?
tracci: bringing cases. “i’m not a legislator.” he says we do need to address “in a way that is forward looking and proactive” the fact that 25% of the jail population has a serious mental illness.
tracci: bringing cases. “i’m not a legislator.” he says we do need to address “in a way that is forward looking and proactive” the fact that 25% of the jail population has a serious mental illness.
hingeley: “plain and simple,” the most important issue for the CA’s office “is to have a commonwealth’s attorney who is competent.” (some murmuring in the crowd)
hingeley again cites tracci’s failure in the kessler perjury case.
hingeley again cites tracci’s failure in the kessler perjury case.
hingeley says tracci failed the victims of “violent torch wielding terrorists” on august 11, 2017.
tracci AGAIN tries to rebut. there are calls of “no rebuttal!” from the audience. “that was a four minute personal attack,” tracci says.
“i’m running out of what i’m gonna call interesting questions,” the moderator says.
hingeley says his most important core value is a belief in equal justice. he’s dedicated his career to helping people, people in poverty, people with the odds stacked against them
“i’ve seen how sometimes the system can be rigged against people who are vulnerable”
“i’ve seen how sometimes the system can be rigged against people who are vulnerable”
“we need to be sure we are administering justice on an equal basis,” which is why he wants to collect that data on every step of the process & make it available to the community so we can measure our progress in achieving more equal justice.
tracci: “equal justice under law is essential,” “it can’t be blind in terms of yielding indiscriminately according to the whim of the prosecutor” (what?)
“let’s not denigrate the police,” (no one did?)
“let’s not denigrate the police,” (no one did?)
seriously what is he talking about. is he ok?
tracci again says his opponent had no prosecution experience, which is true... but there have been many albemarle CA’s who don’t have a background in prosecution. he’s been a trial lawyer for decades.
Q about red flag laws. tracci says depending on how they’re written they can be good. “there are ways those can be structured” that violate the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments.
tracci says it’s important to remember they have to uphold the whole constitution, including (sounds like he means especially) the second amendment.
hingeley: no opinion on how due process applies to red flag laws; he can’t have an opinion on a law that doesn’t exist. republicans keep killing gun safety legislation. “let’s get a red flag law” and then we can talk about it.
Q: “it has to do with the political-ness of the CA’s office,” do you feel the CA’s office should be political, re: running under D & R labels.
hingeley: “it is political. that’s how our system operates.” “mr tracci says a lot about his being non-political and he claims that i am political.” “what does it mean for him to say” that. “why is he running as a republican? he could run as an independent.”
hingeley: he’s running as a republican because there is a benefit to him running as a republican - fundraisers, support of other republicans, and in march 2017 he asked trump to appoint him to be the US atty in the western district.
“he says he loves albemarle county but i think he really wants a big federal job,” hingeley says. “do you think donald trump would’ve considered him” for that job if he were nonpolitical?
tracci: “that was sad.” he says he will frame his answer as a rebuttal because that was “more ad hominem nonsense from someone who doesn’t have any ideas.”
he says he withdrew from consideration for that job.
he says he withdrew from consideration for that job.
tracci tells hingeley he’s taking political advice from people who have no regard for hingeley’s reputation, “you have 43 years, don’t ruin those years” by listening to bad advice.
jesus fucking christ this man is backed into a corner and it’s making him truly disgusting.
three minute closing statements with tracci going first, which he seems sad about - he won’t be able to get the last word. the moderator says she hopes they will use this time to make the case for their own election rather than a case against his opponent.
tracci: “with accountability comes deterrence and with deterrence comes the dignity to live in this community without fear” (what?)
“i make no apology for bringing cases brought by our outstanding law enforcement.”
“i make no apology for bringing cases brought by our outstanding law enforcement.”
tracci: “we don’t need another public defender,” he says of his opponent’s approach to prosecution.
“we have seen a spike in felony bookings,” tracci says (without mentioning that’s because he is padding his numbers by overcharging everything)
“we have seen a spike in felony bookings,” tracci says (without mentioning that’s because he is padding his numbers by overcharging everything)
tracci finishes with a quote from robert jackson, “a citizen’s safety lies in a prosecutor who tempers zeal with human kindness, who seeks truth and not victims, who serves the law and not factional purposes, and who approaches his task with humility.”
“thank you, that was perfectly done,” says the moderator, smiling (totally cool and nonpartisan)
hingeley: cville has a self-identified progressive prosecutor. in the last 3 years, the city has had 20,000 fewer jail days, saving the city $1.8mil. the county had had an increase of 33,472 bed days, an increased cost of $3.24mil.
the audience clapped at the conclusion of the event, for which we were chastised by the moderator.
