Thread by @carolrosenberg

Good morning from Camp Justice. FBI agent Michael Butsch, who interrogated 9/11 defendant Ramzi bin al-Shibh at Guantanamo in 2007, returns to the witness stand today for defense lawyers to question him in open court.

The agent was in NYC on 9/11; he's now based in Connecticut.

I'll be watching from the court gallery this morning. I will catch you up later, one way or the other.

The 9/11 pretrial hearings are in a lunch recess.
Judge Cohen issued an interesting order this morning. He cancelled tomorrow's closed court questioning of a former Army officer called the Camp 7 Commander. It was to be a classified counterpart of this.
nytimes.com/2019/11/01/us/…

Instead, Judge Cohen ordered prosecutors to get him a copy of this memo (mentioned in this footnote on page 160 of the Senate's Study of the CIA black site program) as part of a defense transparency challenge to the testimony by the man who said he ran Camp 7 from 2006 to 2008.

At issue is the former officer's anonymous open-court testimony last week that this Senate Intelligence Committee finding was untrue.

Prosecutor: Do you believe that statement to be true?
Witness: "No, sir." He testified that he had "full responsibility over those forces."

In court now: Defense lawyer James Connell is asking FBI agent Michael Butsch about the time in September 2002 the agent watched Ramzi bin al-Shibh being "debriefed" at a secret location in a secret country by secret people.

This happened after Agent Butsch rushed to Pakistan upon learning of Mr. bin al-Shibh's capture on 9/11/2002 -- and identified the Yemeni on the tarmac of Karachi airport after somebody yanked off the captive's hood and shined a flashlight in his face.

Then the agent got a flight to the secret place, where Mr. bin al-Shibh was being held and watched from an adjacent room at the secret site, took notes.

Prosecutors really, really don't want him answering these questions in open court. But the judge allows a narrow q-and-a.

To a prosecution objection, Mr. Connell explains that this is part of his overarching argument that FBI and CIA material was commingled well before the FBI sent agents like Butsch to Guantanamo in 2007 to interrogate the accused 9/11 plotters.

It's complicated. These are suppression motions.
Here's my long read: nytimes.com/2019/07/29/us/…

So now we learn that Agent Butsch's notes from that secret place made there way into information that the FBI distributed to Agent Frank Pellegrino, who would interrogate KSM at Gitmo in 2007. It was dated Sept. 25, 2002 and called Reporting from Ramzi bin al-Shibh.

Agent Busch testifies that after he left the secret place, and returned to the United States, there was an FBI meeting with "our government officials for permission to go back" there.

Busch: We wanted to return ... to continue efforts with Mr. bin al-Shibh in relation to the Zacarias Moussaoui trial.

Defense lawyer Connell: What was the affiliation of those government officials?
Agent Butsch: The CIA.

After much back and forth between defense and prosecution lawyers over certain questions for Agent Busch, Connell announces that the prosecution will bring former FBI agent Ali Soufan to testify in these continuing suppression hearings. So he'll ask Mr. Soufan those questions.

On the first time Agent Busch saw Mr. bin al-Shibh:

Agent Busch testifies that he probably got to Karachi on Sept. 13, 2002, at night, two days after Mr. bin al-Shibh's capture.
After back and forth he says he had traveled with Ali Soufan from DC to Karachi.

Connell asks Busch if he got a visa to enter Pakistan.
Defense lawyer Clay Trivett objects. Tradecraft.
Connell: Did you pass through customs or immigration to enter Pakistan?
Busch. No.

Along the way to Pakistan, Soufan and Busch joined up with FBI agents Aaron Zebley and Ray Holcomb. There were other people he's forbidden to name because of an invocation of a national security privilege.

In court now, defense lawyer Connell is reading selections from Ali Soufan's (redacted) Black Banners to see if Agent Butsch's memory of FBI-CIA collaboration and lack thereof dovetails with the accounts.

Defense lawyer Connell just asked Butsch if he flew a Gulfstream 5 with tail number N379P from Dulles to Karachi in that September 2002 journey to interrogate Mr. bin al-Shibh -- where he was allowed to watch in a secret place but not participate.

Prosecutor Clay Trivett objected. He first opposed that line of questioning on relevance, then invoked a national security privilege.

Connell had defended relevance this way: The defense would, if it could, triangulate the travels of certain aircraft as part of its pretrial investigation. Instead government restrictions have hamstrung defense investigation at the detriment of due process.

Now, a recess.

The 9/11 hearing is back in session with a lawyer for Walid bin Attash, William Montross, asking the judge to compel testimony by the overseer of military commissions, retired Navy Rear Adm. Christian Reismeier, and a Pentagon lawyer, Jason Foster.

Defense lawyers want Mr. Reismeier, whose title is Convening Authority, removed from the 9/11 case based on his previous work with the chief Gitmo prosecutor, Brig. Gen. Mark Martins, and as a consultant on the USS Cole case. Mr. Reismeier has recused himself from that case.

The 9/11 case judge, Col. W. Shane Cohen, has already ordered prosecutors to turn over 999 pages of information in the Reismeier matter -- which the prosecutors declined to release to defense attorneys as not relevant.

Mr. Montross gives an example of what prosecutors withheld:

On 7/3/2016 Brig. Gen. Martins sent Mr. Reismeier an email -- addressing him as "Chris" -- and thanking him as "such a friend" for participating in a USS Cole case moot court put on by the prosecution.

Mr. Montross read aloud that the future Convening Authority responded to the chief prosecutor with this:
"You're good man and a great American and I am grateful for our friendship."

A bit of background on the Convening Authority: nytimes.com/2019/05/28/us/…

Prosecutor Clay Trivett: Adm. Reismeier and Brig. Gen. Martins have a professional relationship. Nothing's changed with the release of the 999 pages. You have enough information now to rule for the prosecution that Mr. Reismeier shouldn't be disqualified, no need for testimony.

The court is done with that quick argument. Judge Cohen promises a ruling on the question of compelling testimony by next week.

On the way forward with FBI agent Butsch's testimony.... The judge says he'll hear cross-examination for another hour, close for an ex parte meeting with Ramzi bin al-Shibh and his team at 5p, and resume in open session at 9a tomorrow for more defense questioning of agent Butsch.