We are in court.
The public seats are nearly full.
Hopefully let the tweeting commence #FairCopJR
Def Counsel - force of the guidance comes from the extent the bodies using it think its sensible.
Judge - so if force does't like it?
Def Counsel - its not issued pursuant to statutory power
Judge - if Parliament wants to take away fundamental human rights it has to face up to consequences of what it is doing.
Def counsel - I am not the one challenging it.
Def Counsel <splutters>
Judge - just give me an answer.
Def Counsel - yes, that is what MacPherson was looking at and this is important. Have we learned the lessons of the past? CoP thinks this case risks going back to the state of policy - Judge interjects -
<Def Counsel doesn't appear entirely sure>
Defence Counsel - object to distinction between transgender and race issues. It is not right!
Def counsel - the very point is that you need protection.
<don't understand this>
Defence people are victims if offended.
Def Counsel YES
Judge - but complainant said ALL were 'transphobic'
Def Counsel - she obviously had a 'strong reaction' to what was said.
Judge - not disputing that. Will take witness statement at face value.
Judge - but he isn't a celebrity or political figure. Would a police officer looking at 6.1 onwards of guidance, would that be recorded.
Def Counsel. Well...
Judge TV interview would reach more than 800 people
Judge - broadcasters also subject to code of conduct so been through some filtering mechanism.
Judge the European Commission on Racial Equality is NOT the Council of Europe
Def counsel - effective monitoring is precondition to deal with racism properly
Def counsel - we have to monitor level of hatred and keep track of it. Monitors for protected people. Their perception of their community. That's what its there for!
What does it mean?
I just don't understand it?
Def Counsel - I am not sure that has the level of information needed...
Judge but its IRRESPECTIVE of the evidence? Why doesn't this count?
Judge - you can't have a hate incident without evidence of hate
Def Counsel - it must satisfy that definition.
<tuts in court>
I think it means is that the sort of scenario I put to you - someone shouts something at me in aggressive way, not quite sure what it is... but it doesn't matter if I just perceive it.
Def counsel - its very simple actually...loses train of thought..
Def Counsel needs to turn his back.
<I bet he does>
Def Counsel - I am not sure. The police probably want to understand
Judge - but PC Gul had already recorded it before making inquiries
Judge - I think I can see what is being got at. I have pressed you on that and conscious of time.
Def counsel - but also building confidence in community.
Judge - but heart of this must be to see how this targets dealing with crime.
Def counsel - that's only one!