This is how the #ThaparHabibClan and their more famous international counterparts take into advantage most gullible people who read their books , who do not know a word of #Samskrta , forget knowing anything from #RgVeda!
This is exactly how the #ThaparHabibClan has perpetuated a myth of "repeated mention of killing of Dasyus in the #RgVeda".
I showed in another article how dubious was that by similar means.
What the #ThaparHabibClan and the Troll Scroll does not want you to know, or worse, even think about when they peddle article after article about "How the earliest Samskrta *documents* are from Syria".
Hypothesis !=Fact
But the #ThaparHabibClan, their supporters and followers like text book writers or the committee responsible for #KarnatakaTextbookFiasco, have totally forgotten the that a string of hypotheses do not make a fact
True
How the hypothesis of P.I.E is now made to be misunderstood as a fact
If you read only the books by #ThaparHabibClan you would be left thinking every verse, every sukta, every mantra of #RgVeda is filled with mention of words like #Aryan , #Dasyu and what not.
Statistically: The word #Arya (not Aryan) occurs 8 times in #RigVeda, of ~1,00,000 words
Even here, the word "Arya' is found as compound words and the meanings need to be looked at.
How bias in sampling can give rise to erroneous resuts
Such migrations at very ancient times may help explain different laguage families, in my opinion.
Yes, the names that show a confirmation bias are very likely kept to mislead. When people who have some understanding of the statistical process have a difficulty in completely deciphering it, no wonder the Tony Joseph's of this world can easily mislead the bulk of the population
Even after reading Reich's book this aspect wasn't clear to me - I guess the intent is deliberate. Thanks to @RajVedam1 ji who patiently explained it sometime ago on how the ANI and ASI naming and the categorization is meant to skew results.
There is nothing in your genes or tongue that make it possible (or not possible) to produce some sounds (of a language).
Do not believe if someone says "Dravidian's can't say mahaprAna sounds" "Kannada ethnic(!) folks can't produce mahaprana sounds etc!
(Not making it up!)
Of course, it depends on what we grow with and as an adult, it may be hard to get yourself a different accent, but it is just that.
The story of two parrots from Panchatantra (IIRC) comes to minds.
You could have made this better @bennedose avare . Panini wasn't the first grammarian & the language he describes must have been in usage for centuries before him .Vedic forms considered archaic already.
Changes in language weren't due to Panini. But the paragraph here reads so!
This sums very well what we are seeing the last few years. Genetic observation, which may be real, are linked to a hypothetical language, which know one can say for sure had existed.
This is an important paragraph. Because from the elites of the #ThaparHabibClan, to the #ArchitectureReuseExperts to chota-mota wannabes writing to the Troll and the Liar alike, make a big claim of "Samskrta originated in Syria" argument.
You need this to counter that stupidity.
How the dates for Vedas were "assigned" by Max Muller in an arbitrary manner. You need this when you read articles on Scroll and Wire claiming these dates as gospel. #ThaparHabibClan
Simply put, they may not have known the axis of the Earth makes a 26000 year revolution, causing the effect that is called "Precession" in English. But they observed it, called it "ayanAMsha" and figured out that at different times in history, seasons began at different months.
You said it! @bennedose :-) A good cause and effect hypothesis.
My thoughts are similar to yours. The grandmother-mAtAmahi language, could have originated anywhere- Closer to India very likely, as you mention the "substrate" words are least in Skt. It can explain multiple lang familes within Indian subcontinet for long time. @bennedose #End
A #thread about some #myths of #languages and #scripts (of #India): 🧵(I wrote in Kannada earlier)
Every language including #Sanskrit comes in spoken form first & later in written form. Most languages are dated by the earliest time when a written record for them is found. 1/17
#Samskrta can be considered an exception, where we have record of the spoken word before we see its written form. This is because the #Vedas were preserved in a speech form for millennia before being written down. In case of other languages, this is not so. 2/17
For ex: First written record of #Kannada date to 2-3rd C CE. But this does not prove Kannada did'nt exist prior to 2nd CE. It is better to inferwriting was introduced/adapted to Kannada then. In fact we see how the script used to write Prakrit in as adapted to write Kannada 3/17
#ಭಾಷೆ , #ಲಿಪಿ ಇತ್ಯಾದಿ ಗಳಬಗ್ಗೆ ಒಂದು ಸರಳಿಃ🧵 #ಸಂಸ್ಕೃತ ವೊಂದೇ ಏಕೆ, ಯಾವ ಭಾಷೆಗೂ ಮೊದಲು ಲಿಪಿಯಿರಲಿಲ್ಲ(ಇರುವುದಿಲ್ಲ)-ಏಕೆಂದರೆ ಮಾತು ಮೊದಲು ಬರೆಹ ನಂತರ. #ಕನ್ನಡ ದ ಮೊದಲ ದಾಖಲೆ ಸಿಕ್ಕಿರುವುದು ಸಾಮಾನ್ಯಶಕ 2-3 ನೇ ಶತಮಾನದಲ್ಲಿ. ಅದಕ್ಕೆ ಮೊದಲು ಕನ್ನಡ ಇರಲೇ ಇಲ್ಲವೆಂದು ತಿಳಿಯೋಣವೇ? ಹಾಗೆ ನಿರ್ಧರಿಸುವುದು ತಪ್ಪಾಗುತ್ತದೆ. 1/n
3 ನೇ ಶತಮಾನದಲ್ಲಿ ಬರವಣಿಗೆಗೆ ಕನ್ನಡವನ್ನು ಒಳಪಡಿಸಿದರು ಎನ್ನುವುದು ಹೆಚ್ಚು ಸರಿಯಾಗಬಹುದಾದ ಊಹೆ.
ಸಂಸ್ಕೃತಕ್ಕೂ ಹಾಗೇ. ಲಿಪಿಯಿಲ್ಲದ ಕಾಲ ಒಂದಿತ್ತು. ಒಂದು ಕಾಲದಲ್ಲಿ ಬರೆಹದ ಶಕ್ತಿಯನ್ನರಿತ ಮೇಲೆ ಬರೆವಣಿಗೆ ಬಂದಿತು. ಅದರ ನಂತರವೂ ಮೌಖಿಕ ಪರಂಪರೆಯೂ ಜೊತೆಗೇ ಮುಂದುವರೆಯಿತು. ಮುದ್ರಣ ಬರುವವರೆಗೆ ಇದಕ್ಕಿದ್ದ ಹೆಚ್ಚಾಯ ಅರಿತಿದ್ದೇವೆ. 2/n
ಪಾಣಿನಿಯ ಕಾಲಕ್ಕಾಗಲೆ ಲಿಪಿ ಇತ್ತು ಎಂಬುದು ನಿರ್ವಿವಾದ. ಆಸಕ್ತರು ವಾಸುದೇವ ಶರಣ ಅಗ್ರವಾಲ ಅವರ India as known to #Panini ಪುಸ್ತಕವನ್ನು ಓದಬಹುದು. ವ್ಯಾಸ ವಾಲ್ಮೀಕಿಯರು ಬರಹವನ್ನು ಪ್ರಸ್ತಾಪ ಮಾಡಿಲ್ಲ -ಅವರು ಪಾಣಿನಿಗೂ ಹಿಂದಿನವರಾದ್ದರಿಂದ ಅವರ ಕಾಲದಲ್ಲಿ ಬರವಣಿಗೆ ರೂಢಿಗೆ ಬಂದಿಲ್ಲದಿದ್ದಿರಬಹುದೆಂಬ ಊಹೆಯನ್ನು ನಾವು ಮಾಡಬಹುದು. 3/n
For those asking "What about Aryan" "What about Dravidian" languages - remember these terms were coined in 19th C.
Think of them as bags in which you organize things.
@pvaal2 Why these article writers do not see Adityas (who were not demons) and and who were named so for being sons of Aditi? Selective blindness?
@pvaal2 These statements may be okay in a "general" book but do they fit in a book talking about languages?
Anyone who has lived in an English speaking language knows English also has aspirated consonants.
A: ಅವಗ್ರಹವನ್ನು ಒಂದು ವಿಶೇಷ ಸನ್ನೆಯಾಗಿ ಬೇರೆಬೇರೆ ಭಾಷೆಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಬೇರೆ ಬೇರೆ ಕಾರಣಕ್ಕೆ ಬಳಸುತ್ತಾರೆ.
ಕನ್ನಡದಲ್ಲಿ ಸಾಧಾರಣವಾಗಿ, ಇದನ್ನು ಹ್ರಸ್ವ ಸ್ವರವನ್ನು ಎಳೆದು ಹೇಳುವಾಗ *ಆದರೆ, ದೀರ್ಘಸ್ವರವನ್ನು ಪ್ರಯೋಗಿಸದೇ ಇರುವಾಗ ತೋರಿಸುತ್ತೇವೆ.
1/3
ಎಂದರೆ, ಅಕ್ಕಽಽ ಮತ್ತು ಅಕ್ಕಾ ಇವೆರಡರ ಉಚ್ಚಾರ ಬೇರೆಬೇರೆಯಾಗಿರುತ್ತದೆ
ಇನ್ನೊಂದೆರಡು ಉದಾಹರಣೆಗಳು:
ನಾ ಬಂದಽ ನಾಕ್ ತಾಸಾಗೇಽದ ಚೆನ್ನಾಗಿ
ಅದೆಷ್ಟ್ ಛಂಽದ ಅದಾಳ
ಆಡುಮಾತನ್ನು ಹೆಚ್ಚು ಕರಾರುವಾಕ್ಕಾಗಿ ತೋರಿಸಲು ಈ ಬಳಕೆ ಅಷ್ಟೇ.
ಕನ್ನಡ ಲಿಪಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ಕೊಂಕಣಿ ಮೊದಲಾದ ಭಾಷೆಗಳನ್ನು ಬರೆಯುವಾಗ ಕೂಡ ಇದು ಬಹಳ ಉಪಯುಕ್ತವಾಗುತ್ತೆ.
2/3
ಇನ್ನು ಸಂಸ್ಕೃತದಲ್ಲಿ ಪೂರ್ವರೂಪ ಪರರೂಪ ಸಂಧಿಗಳಾಗಿರುವುದನ್ನು ತೋರಿಸುವೆಡೆ ಸಾಮಾನ್ಯವಾಗಿ ಅವಗ್ರಹ ಸನ್ನೆಯನ್ನು ಹಾಕುತ್ತಾರೆ. ಆದರೆ ಇಲ್ಲಿ ನಿಜವಾಗಿ ಅವಗ್ರಹ ಹಾಕಿದರೂ ಹಾಕದೇ ಇದ್ದರೂ ಉಚ್ಚಾರಣೆ ಒಂದೇ ಆಗಿರುತ್ತೆ.
ಉದಾ:पद्मनाभोऽरविन्दाक्षः ಇದರ ಉಚ್ಚಾರ पद्मनाभोरविन्दाक्ष: ಎಂದೇ.सर्वेऽपि ಇದರ ಉಚ್ಚಾರ सर्वेपि ಎಂದೇ. 3/3
Q: ಕರ್ನಾಟಕ ಸಂಗೀತದಲ್ಲಿ ತೆಲುಗು ಭಾಷೆಯಲ್ಲಿ ಹೆಚ್ಚು ರಚನೆಗಳಾಗಿರುವುದಕ್ಕೆ ಕಾರಣ ಏನು? ಕನ್ನಡದಲ್ಲಿ ಯಾಕೆ ಅಷ್ಟು ಆಗಲಿಲ್ಲ?
This needs a long answer - Sharing for those interested, as there is lot of confusion about this point even among music students and pratcitioners of the art!
A: ಇದು ತುಂಬಾ ಒಳ್ಳೆಯ ಪ್ರಶ್ನೆ. ಇಂದಿನ ಕರ್ನಾಟಕ ಸಂಗೀತದಲ್ಲಿ ನಮ್ಮ 18-19 ನೇ ಶತಮಾನದಲ್ಲಿ ಇದ್ದಂತಹ ತ್ಯಾಗರಾಜರ ಪರಂಪರೆಯ ಕೊಡುಗೆ ಅಪಾರ. ತ್ಯಾಗರಾಜರ ಹೆಚ್ಚು ರಚನೆಗಳು ತೆಲುಗು ಭಾಷೆಯಲ್ಲಿ ಇದ್ದವು. ತ್ಯಾಗರಾಗರ ಏಳ್ನೂರಕ್ಕೂ ಹೆಚ್ಚು ರಚನೆಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಸುಮಾರು ನೂರಕ್ಕೆ ತೊಂಬತ್ತಾದರೂ ತೆಲುಗು ರಚನೆಗಳಾಗಿದ್ದು (1/n)
ಉಳಿದವು ಸಂಸ್ಕೃತ ಭಾಷೆಯಲ್ಲಿವೆ. ತ್ಯಾಗರಾಜರ ಕಾಲಾನಂತರದ ಸಂಗೀತದಲ್ಲಿ ಅವರ ಕೃತಿಗಳು ಹೆಚ್ಚು ಪ್ರಚಾರಕ್ಕೆ ಬಂದವು. ತ್ಯಾಗರಾಜರು ಸುಮಾರು ಅರುವತ್ತೈದು ವರ್ಷ ಸಂಗೀತವನ್ನು ಪಾಠ ಮಾಡಿದ್ದ, ದೊಡ್ಡ ಶಿಷ್ಯಸಮೂಹವನ್ನು ಹೊಂದಿದ್ದ ವಾಗ್ಗೇಯಕಾರರು. ಇಪ್ಪತ್ತನೆ ಶತಮಾನದಲ್ಲಿ ಸಾರ್ವಜನಿಕ ಸಂಗೀತ ಕಚೇರಿಗಳ ಪದ್ಧತಿ ಬಂದಾಗ ಅವರ ರಚನೆಗಳು ಕಚೇರಿಗೆ 2/n